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Post by goz on Feb 2, 2018 23:12:37 GMT
due to the first amendment to the US Constitution which states "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof" The two parts, known as the "establishment clause" and the "free exercise clause"?
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Post by Isapop on Feb 2, 2018 23:44:47 GMT
due to the first amendment to the US Constitution which states "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof" The two parts, known as the "establishment clause" and the "free exercise clause"? Secular, but not atheist. If the USA was an atheist state you wouldn't see the various forms "ceremonial deism". Examples: "In God We Trust" on our money. "Under God" in the Pledge of Allegiance. Congress opens its sessions with prayer.
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Post by goz on Feb 2, 2018 23:55:48 GMT
due to the first amendment to the US Constitution which states "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof" The two parts, known as the "establishment clause" and the "free exercise clause"? Secular, but not atheist. If the USA was an atheist state you wouldn't see the various forms "ceremonial deism". Examples: "In God We Trust" on our money. "Under God" in the Pledge of Allegiance. Congress opens its sessions with prayer.
How is that permitted? Surely that is preferring one religion over another? btw interesting article americanhistory.oxfordre.com/view/10.1093/acrefore/9780199329175.001.0001/acrefore-9780199329175-e-29 |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2018 23:58:00 GMT
No.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 3, 2018 0:05:57 GMT
due to the first amendment to the US Constitution which states "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof" The two parts, known as the "establishment clause" and the "free exercise clause"? Many have decided to ignore the constitution and do as they please. |
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Feb 3, 2018 0:17:03 GMT
It's atheist because it's secular.
It simply allows for ones who are not atheist, the majority, to practice their religion within the confines of a secular law.
Everything it does, the laws it passes as well as the education it supplies is based on the notion that God does not exist and if you want salvation, you look to your country to provide it.
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Post by Isapop on Feb 3, 2018 0:23:22 GMT
Secular, but not atheist. If the USA was an atheist state you wouldn't see the various forms "ceremonial deism". Examples: "In God We Trust" on our money. "Under God" in the Pledge of Allegiance. Congress opens its sessions with prayer.
How is that permitted? Surely that is preferring one religion over another? Our Supreme Court concluded that such references are more of a nod to our history rather than having real religious content. That's, of course, a debatable point. But an atheistic state would scrub itself clean of any such references in its civic life. |
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Post by kls on Feb 3, 2018 0:51:46 GMT
due to the first amendment to the US Constitution which states "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof" The two parts, known as the "establishment clause" and the "free exercise clause"? Atheist to me would be implying the government is endorsing the view God doesn't exist. I don't see where the Amendment implies that at all or takes any position. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 3, 2018 0:55:35 GMT
It's atheist because it's secular. It simply allows for ones who are not atheist, the majority, to practice their religion within the confines of a secular law. Everything it does, the laws it passes as well as the education it supplies is based on the notion that God does not exist and if you want salvation, you look to your country to provide it. I would argue the opposite. The very concept of "inherent rights" (which our Constitution and Declaration of Independence presuppose) is based on the notion that humans have natural rights that aren't granted by government, but by a divine creator. The Constitution doesn't "provide" us with a list of rights (as if the government was handing them out). It simply states which rights are inherent to our status as humans (the ability to speak your mind, defend yourself, etc.), and then creates blocks AGAINST the government from taking away those rights. None of this is to say that the US is a "Christian nation" (I don't believe such a thing is even possible). But I do believe it was generally founded upon Judeo-Christian principles. All that said, the separation of church and state is a beautiful thing. There should be no official religion of the state. But the state should ensure that religious liberties are protected for ALL. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 3, 2018 0:57:26 GMT
In theory, it's a secular nation. In reality, it's a Christian nation, as evidenced by the restrictive laws concerning abortion.
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Post by Rodney Farber on Feb 3, 2018 0:58:16 GMT
How is that permitted? Surely that is preferring one religion over another? ... Nothing prevents Congress from prayer. What they are prevented from doing is passing a LAW requiring (or forbidding) prayer. In other words, they meet the letter of the Constitution while evading the spirit of the Constitution. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 3, 2018 0:59:32 GMT
In theory, it's a secular nation. In reality, it's a Christian nation, as evidenced by the restrictive laws concerning abortion. Do you believe there should be no restrictions on abortions? Even moments before birth? |
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Post by politicidal on Feb 3, 2018 1:09:16 GMT
Osama Bin Laden would have been elected president sooner than an atheist I do think.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 3, 2018 1:14:49 GMT
In theory, it's a secular nation. In reality, it's a Christian nation, as evidenced by the restrictive laws concerning abortion. Do you believe there should be no restrictions on abortions? Even moments before birth? No; I don't think that a foetus is morally relevant. But abortions are very hard to obtain in many parts of the US, regardless of what part of the term it is, and that's more what I was referring to. |
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Post by goz on Feb 3, 2018 1:22:17 GMT
Why not? Under the Constitution it should be! |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 3, 2018 1:23:54 GMT
Why not? Under the Constitution it should be! Secular would be a more appropriate term. Atheism refers to a specific lack of belief in God. That's not what the US was founded on. |
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Post by goz on Feb 3, 2018 1:25:21 GMT
It's atheist because it's secular. It simply allows for ones who are not atheist, the majority, to practice their religion within the confines of a secular law. Everything it does, the laws it passes as well as the education it supplies is based on the notion that God does not exist and if you want salvation, you look to your country to provide it. I would argue the opposite. The very concept of "inherent rights" (which our Constitution and Declaration of Independence presuppose) is based on the notion that humans have natural rights that aren't granted by government, but by a divine creator. The Constitution doesn't "provide" us with a list of rights (as if the government was handing them out). It simply states which rights are inherent to our status as humans (the ability to speak your mind, defend yourself, etc.), and then creates blocks AGAINST the government from taking away those rights. None of this is to say that the US is a "Christian nation" (I don't believe such a thing is even possible). But I do believe it was generally founded upon Judeo-Christian principles. All that said, the separation of church and state is a beautiful thing. There should be no official religion of the state. But the state should ensure that religious liberties are protected for ALL. Ahah! Butt what is 'religious liberty for ALL'? If you mean protection of religious people's bigotry and discrimination, then that affects other people and their religious or non-religious rights! |
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Post by goz on Feb 3, 2018 1:29:06 GMT
Why not? Under the Constitution it should be! Secular would be a more appropriate term. Atheism refers to a specific lack of belief in God. That's not what the US was founded on. Well, is it not logical to conflate a 'specific lack of belief in God' to not allowing the formation of any state religion? It implies that many people have the right to have many, one or no Gods and that all are equal under the constitution. Hence it could be considered an atheist country. ie No specific God. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 3, 2018 1:31:26 GMT
Secular would be a more appropriate term. Atheism refers to a specific lack of belief in God. That's not what the US was founded on. Well, is it not logical to conflate a 'specific lack of belief in God' to not allowing the formation of any state religion? No. If you want to refer to the US as an "atheistic state" though, I don't care. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 3, 2018 1:32:14 GMT
I would argue the opposite. The very concept of "inherent rights" (which our Constitution and Declaration of Independence presuppose) is based on the notion that humans have natural rights that aren't granted by government, but by a divine creator. The Constitution doesn't "provide" us with a list of rights (as if the government was handing them out). It simply states which rights are inherent to our status as humans (the ability to speak your mind, defend yourself, etc.), and then creates blocks AGAINST the government from taking away those rights. None of this is to say that the US is a "Christian nation" (I don't believe such a thing is even possible). But I do believe it was generally founded upon Judeo-Christian principles. All that said, the separation of church and state is a beautiful thing. There should be no official religion of the state. But the state should ensure that religious liberties are protected for ALL. Ahah! Butt what is 'religious liberty for ALL'? If you mean protection of religious people's bigotry and discrimination, then that affects other people and their religious or non-religious rights! Can you give me a specific example? |
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