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Post by captainbryce on Feb 18, 2018 23:29:03 GMT
Ultimately the reason ANYONE gets into religion in the first place is indoctrination. As to why people STAY in the religion (after they grow up and learn history), that would vary from individual to individual. Unfortunately, there doesn’t seem to be too many people of color here who can answer this question. (the reason I stayed in it as long as I did was because I was forcing myself to try to believe in something because I wanted it to be true, not because it actually made sense) Bryce, any comment on the answer I suggested? I am sure you are correct that this would be a common justification. I was just hoping to get something like that straight from the horses mouth I suppose. We can speculate all day long, but it’s actually HOW people choose to validate positions that don’t seem to make sense that interests me.
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Post by captainbryce on Feb 18, 2018 23:40:15 GMT
I don’t know what relevance that has on my question. If the people aren't slaves, then it follows that no religion was used to justify their slavery. Because their slavery does not exist. It was used to justify the slavery of their ancestors, the effects of which are still felt in the black community. So the question remains valid. Why would someone continue to adopt a philosophy that has not benefited African slaves or their ancestors in any way? Black people still suffer the effects of systemic discrimination in the US, and Christianity has never saved them from it (just it didn’t save them from Jim Crow lynchings, the KKK, or their slave masters. All of those groups who’ve historically oppressed black people were Christians, and used the Bible to justify their actions. Why would black people embrace that today? No, just black Americans. Sorry for the confusion! Black people in Northern Africa largely lack education, and people who lack education are easily indoctrinated into religion. Just look at the southern United States. It doesn’t mean it should either. Hence my question. But you probably also don’t walk around with a copy of Mein Kampf, or believe in embracing Nazi moral philosophy either do you? I have no problem letting people use whatever they want to give them comfort. My question is, why would something like that actually give comfort to black people who are aware of its history?
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Post by phludowin on Feb 18, 2018 23:53:14 GMT
But you probably also don’t walk around with a copy of Mein Kampf, or believe in embracing Nazi moral philosophy either do you? Nope. But the Nazis used plenty of German artists for their propaganda; like music by Wagner, Bruckner, Beethoven, Orff... They are still considered great composers. That's an individual question only those practising it can answer. Too bad we can't ask Martin Luther King anymore.
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Post by captainbryce on Feb 19, 2018 0:12:34 GMT
But you probably also don’t walk around with a copy of Mein Kampf, or believe in embracing Nazi moral philosophy either do you? Nope. But the Nazis used plenty of German artists for their propaganda; like music by Wagner, Bruckner, Beethoven, Orff... They are still considered great composers. But none of those composers made music with the intent of inspiring the Nazi movement. Nazis may have appropriated some of their work and tried to use it in a certain way, but the works of these artists were not central tenets of Nazi philosophy, nor are they generally associated with Nazism (as slavery is with the Bible). The Bible specifically endorsed slavery! I agree. Christianity failed to save him, as its failed to save so many others who’ve been disenfranchised by it.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2018 0:18:17 GMT
Why are white people Christians?
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Post by phludowin on Feb 19, 2018 0:23:42 GMT
Nope. But the Nazis used plenty of German artists for their propaganda; like music by Wagner, Bruckner, Beethoven, Orff... They are still considered great composers. But none of those composers made music with the intent of inspiring the Nazi movement. Nazis may have appropriated some of their work and tried to use it in a certain way, but the works of these artists were not central tenets of Nazi philosophy, nor are they generally associated with Nazism (as slavery is with the Bible). The Bible specifically endorsed slavery! Actually Wagner and Bruckner wrote some pretty questionable essays about Jews in music; and the Nazis used these essays for their propaganda. This does not invalidate Wagner's and Bruckner's abilities as composers. Slavery was common during the time the Bible was written; but in my opinion it's possible to interpret the Bible in a more egalitarian way, without Curse of Canaan bullshit.
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Feb 19, 2018 0:28:52 GMT
If the people aren't slaves, then it follows that no religion was used to justify their slavery. Because their slavery does not exist. It was used to justify the slavery of their ancestors, the effects of which are still felt in the black community. So the question remains valid. Why would someone continue to adopt a philosophy that has not benefited African slaves or their ancestors in any way? Black people still suffer the effects of systemic discrimination in the US, and Christianity has never saved them from it (just it didn’t save them from Jim Crow lynchings, the KKK, or their slave masters. All of those groups who’ve historically oppressed black people were Christians, and used the Bible to justify their actions. Why would black people embrace that today? No, just black Americans. Sorry for the confusion! Black people in Northern Africa largely lack education, and people who lack education are easily indoctrinated into religion. Just look at the southern United States. It doesn’t mean it should either. Hence my question. But you probably also don’t walk around with a copy of Mein Kampf, or believe in embracing Nazi moral philosophy either do you? I have no problem letting people use whatever they want to give them comfort. My question is, why would something like that actually give comfort to black people who are aware of its history? lol
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Feb 19, 2018 0:58:49 GMT
The historical evidence is that Christianity tends to thrive when a choice is given and especially if we are combining all Christian denominations.
Even during the Inquisition when people were forced to pretend to be Christian, once the oppression was gone, people chose to stay with it. That's even more the case now that people do choose their faith. Christianity is the best option among the ones that are known about.
Granted, some may not ever know about other religions such as Hinduism or Buddhism, but that isn't their problem, but the problem of those faiths not being interested in reaching out to them or having a message that's appealing enough to start the change.
If we factor atheism into it as some kind of pseudo-ideology, that's even more the case.
In short, Christianity is a great religion to belong to for a lot of people regardless of race.
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Post by captainbryce on Feb 19, 2018 1:51:27 GMT
Why are white people Christians? I don’t care.
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Post by captainbryce on Feb 19, 2018 1:55:02 GMT
The historical evidence is that Christianity tends to thrive when a choice is given.... It’s funny that you thought this opinion was compelling enough to post it twice in one post.
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Post by THawk on Feb 19, 2018 2:45:06 GMT
Because unlike so many rich, spoiled, privileged yet self-hating sorry ass white Westerns, many black people have seen first hand the real trials and tribulations of this life. That is where Christ lies. With the suffering and the downtrodden.
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Post by Eva Yojimbo on Feb 19, 2018 3:37:07 GMT
But none of those composers made music with the intent of inspiring the Nazi movement. Nazis may have appropriated some of their work and tried to use it in a certain way, but the works of these artists were not central tenets of Nazi philosophy, nor are they generally associated with Nazism (as slavery is with the Bible). The Bible specifically endorsed slavery! Actually Wagner and Bruckner wrote some pretty questionable essays about Jews in music; and the Nazis used these essays for their propaganda. This does not invalidate Wagner's and Bruckner's abilities as composers. And it's important to mention that there's no actual antisemitism in their music.
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Post by goz on Feb 19, 2018 3:56:49 GMT
I didn't look at the video.
I have two answers, and they are surprisingly similar.
1. 'Black'/indigenous people who have been introduced to Christianity by missionaries in their native lands.
2. Slaves who were introduced to Christianity in their forcibly adopted lands.
1. Due to the disruption of a conquering/imperialist/missionary force, they adopted the message of Christianity after their traditional belief system was so interrupted and devalued that they were progressively brainwashed into a misrepresented version of a 'better' life if you adopted Christianity, the faith your conquerors.
2. ditto, except that you were EVEN more disassociated with your indigenous faith and culture and there were survival advantages to converting to the faith of your overlords.
It also gave the poor buggers hope ( misplaced in my opinion ) however if the alternative was whipping rape even harder work and starvation...most people on this earth would have converted.
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Post by sublime92 on Feb 19, 2018 5:02:39 GMT
At this point, it's just a more universal and diverse religion compared to others. Go to churches in Florida, California, Virginia and New Jersey and you'll see more ethnicities and races represented than your average mosque, synagogue or hindu temple.
There are more colorblind churches than tribal ones in the USA. America has changed. Those who hate on Christianity because they were the brat who was forced to go to church as a child are stuck in a jaded philosophy. Move on with your life. Promote dialectic, not schisms.
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Post by Cody™ on Feb 19, 2018 8:05:21 GMT
At this point, it's just a more universal and diverse religion compared to others. Go to churches in Florida, California, Virginia and New Jersey and you'll see more ethnicities and races represented than your average mosque, synagogue or hindu temple. There are more colorblind churches than tribal ones in the USA. America has changed. Those who hate on Christianity because they were the brat who was forced to go to church as a child are stuck in a jaded philosophy. Move on with your life. Promote dialectic, not schisms.CaptainBryce would like to get rid of religion completely. Other than that he doesn't have a problem with Christianity...honest...
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Feb 19, 2018 11:47:46 GMT
The historical evidence is that Christianity tends to thrive when a choice is given.... It’s funny that you thought this opinion was compelling enough to post it twice in one post. I had already answered the question and copy/pasting is easier than retyping considering you must not have read it the first time.
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Post by captainbryce on Feb 19, 2018 15:38:40 GMT
Because unlike so many rich, spoiled, privileged yet self-hating sorry ass white Westerns, many black people have seen first hand the real trials and tribulations of this life. That is where Christ lies. With the suffering and the downtrodden. So you’re saying that black people have historically suffered persecution and injustice which gives them a common ground with the Christ character, and makes it more identifiable and easier for them to digest?
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Post by captainbryce on Feb 19, 2018 15:42:05 GMT
I didn't look at the video. I have two answers, and they are surprisingly similar. 1. 'Black'/indigenous people who have been introduced to Christianity by missionaries in their native lands. 2. Slaves who were introduced to Christianity in their forcibly adopted lands. 1. Due to the disruption of a conquering/imperialist/missionary force, they adopted the message of Christianity after their traditional belief system was so interrupted and devalued that they were progressively brainwashed into a misrepresented version of a 'better' life if you adopted Christianity, the faith your conquerors. 2. ditto, except that you were EVEN more disassociated with your indigenous faith and culture and there were survival advantages to converting to the faith of your overlords. It also gave the poor buggers hope ( misplaced in my opinion ) however if the alternative was whipping rape even harder work and starvation...most people on this earth would have converted. Logical. And that certainly explains how they were converted and why the slaves (and perhaps even the generation immediately following) adopted the ideology. But that doesn’t explain why black people today still practice it KNOWING that this is how they came to the religion in the first place, and what the Bible endorses (slavery).
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Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2018 15:44:33 GMT
They practice the same way that people in every single nation on the planet practice it. It's kind of silly to try to define an entire group regarding the things they do, kinda akin to asking why all white people are racist. Well, yeah, we shouldn't think that they're all Christian or that they all practice Christianity in a particular way or anything like that, but re why some blacks are Christians, I think that the historical question is interesting. Because it's very doubtful that any blacks would have historically been Christians. But crusaders, slavery and missionaries either brought them into other cultures or brought other cultures to them and socially pressured them to adapt (at least publicly--people often publicly say stuff that they don't privately believe). So that's how Christianity spread to some blacks. It's basically the result of an ideological war, of social pressure to "believe my shit instead of the shit you were believing." What about the three Wisemen? Also, don't forget the Ethiopian Eunuch.
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Post by captainbryce on Feb 19, 2018 15:44:43 GMT
At this point, it's just a more universal and diverse religion compared to others. Go to churches in Florida, California, Virginia and New Jersey and you'll see more ethnicities and races represented than your average mosque, synagogue or hindu temple. There are more colorblind churches than tribal ones in the USA. America has changed. Those who hate on Christianity because they were the brat who was forced to go to church as a child are stuck in a jaded philosophy. Move on with your life. Promote dialectic, not schisms. Next time try actually answering the question relevant to the thread your on. I’m sure there are other threads out there that this rant addresses. Or perhaps you need to go create it first. This does not answer the question that was asked.
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