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Post by thisguy4000 on Mar 6, 2018 0:17:26 GMT
I’ve said this back when JL was released and I’ll say it again: Batman’s time in the sun has set. He’s done. There’s no reason to give him another movie at this point, and there’s even less reason to give movies to Batgirl, Nightwing, or Harley Quinn. DC should just give it up and retire the Batman part of the DC universe.
That’s just my opinion anyway. What does everyone else think?
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Post by sdrew13163 on Mar 6, 2018 1:31:45 GMT
No
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Post by Lord Death Man on Mar 6, 2018 4:51:05 GMT
I’ve said this back when JL was released and I’ll say it again: Batman’s time in the sun has set. He’s done. There’s no reason to give him another movie at this point, and there’s even less reason to give movies to Batgirl, Nightwing, or Harley Quinn. DC should just give it up and retire the Batman part of the DC universe. That’s just my opinion anyway. What does everyone else think? I agree. Batman must die. He desperately needs his "Reichenbach Falls" moment. The character has nothing left to say to anyone in the cinematic medium, and his inscrutable, know-it-all act is even getting tiresome in the comics. He lacks credibility. He single-handedly made me hate Darkseid as a character. No one should be able to beat "the death that is life" or else, what's the point?
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Post by Skaathar on Mar 6, 2018 5:24:45 GMT
The golden age of anti-heroes has past. There was a time when dark, brooding, misunderstood heroes were all the craze: from Batman to Wolverine to TMNT Raphael and even most lately to Edward Cullen...
However, that era seems to be ending. Now it's the realistic, in-touch-with-reality, personality-heavy type of heroes that are all the craze. What do Tony Stark, Peter Parker and Captain America have in common? They have tons of personality and aren't afraid to show it. They don't act like stoic superhero gods, they act like actual people who became superheroes. Why do you think Loki and Kilmonger and even Wonder Woman ended up being so loved? Because they were relateable, they had realistic personalities. They were "real".
And so though I hate to say it, Batman and his ilk are now outdated, same way Superman was outdated.
The problem here is that people nowadays care more about the man behind the mask than they do the costumed fighter. And unfortunately, Bruce Wayne is nowhere near as interesting as Batman.
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Post by Lord Death Man on Mar 6, 2018 5:37:17 GMT
The golden age of anti-heroes has past. There was a time when dark, brooding, misunderstood heroes were all the craze: from Batman to Wolverine to TMNT Raphael and even most lately to Edward Cullen... However, that era seems to be ending. Now it's the realistic, in-touch-with-reality, personality-heavy type of heroes that are all the craze. What do Tony Stark, Peter Parker and Captain America have in common? They have tons of personality and aren't afraid to show it. They don't act like stoic superhero gods, they act like actual people who became superheroes. Why do you think Loki and Kilmonger and even Wonder Woman ended up being so loved? Because they were relateable, they had realistic personalities. They were "real". And so though I hate to say it, Batman and his ilk are now outdated, same way Superman was outdated. The problem here is that people nowadays care more about the man behind the mask than they do the costumed fighter. And unfortunately, Bruce Wayne is nowhere near as interesting as Batman. Well said. You articulate several reasons why I will puke 🤮 my guts out if I see Wolverine in a solo movie within the next three years.
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Post by scabab on Mar 6, 2018 7:14:57 GMT
No. The Dark Knight made over a billion. The Dark Knight Rises made over a billion. Batman vs Superman was one of the most hyped up superhero movies of all time and had a very high opening weekend despite all the bad reviews.
Any struggle he is having is simply because of the movies quality.
The exact same thing happened to Spider-man. The Amazing Spider-man were not remotely as successful as the Raimi movies and people were mixed on them.
When they came out with a good Spider-man movie with Homecoming it was very successful.
So simply put when they make a good Batman movie it will make money.
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Post by taylorfirst1 on Mar 6, 2018 17:31:59 GMT
No, they just need to flesh out the character and make him more like Keaton's version. You know, a real person that wasn't brooding 100% of the time. Also, we need a Bat-Mite solo movie.
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Post by sjg on Mar 6, 2018 17:35:42 GMT
Yes, but i've never been a Batman fan
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Post by politicidal on Mar 6, 2018 18:21:55 GMT
No. Especially now when we can have him interact with other superheroes now.
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Post by Skaathar on Mar 6, 2018 19:55:32 GMT
No. The Dark Knight made over a billion. The Dark Knight Rises made over a billion. Batman vs Superman was one of the most hyped up superhero movies of all time and had a very high opening weekend despite all the bad reviews. Any struggle he is having is simply because of the movies quality. The exact same thing happened to Spider-man. The Amazing Spider-man were not remotely as successful as the Raimi movies and people were mixed on them. When they came out with a good Spider-man movie with Homecoming it was very successful. So simply put when they make a good Batman movie it will make money. The reason why the Dark Knight trilogy made so much money was because they humanized Batman. They removed his 107 martial arts, super inventor intellect, super detective skills, etc. They focused a lot more on Bruce Wayne's dilemmas than they did Batman. His training, his journey, his love life, his health issues, etc. Of course it greatly helped that Ledger's Joker was extremely well done plus the actor did die. However with DCEU Batman, we're back to having Batman as a costumed symbol and not really focusing on Bruce Wayne's personality. If they continue to go that route then it's not going to work.
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Post by Skaathar on Mar 6, 2018 20:10:40 GMT
The golden age of anti-heroes has past. There was a time when dark, brooding, misunderstood heroes were all the craze: from Batman to Wolverine to TMNT Raphael and even most lately to Edward Cullen... However, that era seems to be ending. Now it's the realistic, in-touch-with-reality, personality-heavy type of heroes that are all the craze. What do Tony Stark, Peter Parker and Captain America have in common? They have tons of personality and aren't afraid to show it. They don't act like stoic superhero gods, they act like actual people who became superheroes. Why do you think Loki and Kilmonger and even Wonder Woman ended up being so loved? Because they were relateable, they had realistic personalities. They were "real". And so though I hate to say it, Batman and his ilk are now outdated, same way Superman was outdated. The problem here is that people nowadays care more about the man behind the mask than they do the costumed fighter. And unfortunately, Bruce Wayne is nowhere near as interesting as Batman. Well said. You articulate several reasons why I will puke 🤮 my guts out if I see Wolverine in a solo movie within the next three years. Thank god I've finally found someone willing to listen to reason. lol. Everyone else goes rabid when I tell them Wolverine is going out of style, and even worse when I say Batman is outdated.
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Post by Lord Death Man on Mar 6, 2018 20:14:45 GMT
Well said. You articulate several reasons why I will puke 🤮 my guts out if I see Wolverine in a solo movie within the next three years. Thank god I've finally found someone willing to listen to reason. lol. Everyone else goes rabid when I tell them Wolverine is going out of style, and even worse when I say Batman is outdated. Yes, I agree one hundred percent. Both heroes are the equivalent of a fanboy security blanket. They don’t know how to let go of these one-note characters that haven’t added anything new or meaningful to the genre in ages. They both need to take a long 😴.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 7, 2018 3:51:48 GMT
Ummmm.....no. A bakery shouldn't stop selling bread just 'cause a few of its weird flavoured buns don't sell well. The fact is we are yet to even have a proper 'Batman' movie and haven't even seen a quarter of the major characters in the Bat Universe that DC has said multiple times are one of the main reasons why Batman has been around for so long. Until we get movies with Batgirl, Nightwing, Red Robin/Savior, The Spoiler, Orphan, Batwoman, Red Hood, Bluebird, Hawkfire, Azrael, Robin (Damian Wayne) etc etc I am more than happy to see the Batman movies continue 'cause once we get the Bat Family in them it is going to cause a major change. 'Batman vs Superman: Dawn of Justice' wasn't a Batman movie and was mostly a Superman movie with Superman characters like Lois Lane, Perry White, Jimmy Olsen and Doomsday with Batman and Alfred appearing.
As for the people who claim Batman is outdated last time I checked 'Detective Comics Rebirth' has been slaughtering a large amount of DC and Marvel series all year in sales and many critics have been giving the series 9/10 and 10/10 and been praising what the writers have been doing with the Spoiler, Clayface, Orphan and Batwoman. For the past month Batwoman has been one of the most talked about characters in comics due to her current storyline with the Bat Family which has seen her leave the Bat Family (temporary) and a future version of Tim Drake who now goes by the name, Savior in a major role AND 'Arkham Knight' dominated the video game charts not that long ago and if they were to release another Arkham game now it would do the EXACT same thing. Also what is the most talked about DC TV show at the moment? That's right. It is 'Titans' with Dick Grayson which by the way is DC's biggest selling team series of all time. When 'Aquaman' and 'Shazam' flop and it is a matter of 'when' and not 'if' since I will bet $1000 both are flops and 'The Batman' movie is more successful than both of them Warner Bros will see where their true priority lies which is the Bat Universe. More than 60 percent of the Bat Universe is DC now 'cause it is what sells and without the Bat Universe DC wouldn't exist.
Given how many female superheroes are in the Bat Universe in prominent roles which include the 'Birds of Prey' I am not surprised we have some people wanting Warner Bros to stop making Batman movies. Quick better stop those Batman movies before we get female superheroes on screen or worse, a lesbian superhero like Batwoman.
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Post by Skaathar on Mar 7, 2018 4:55:04 GMT
^ actually the most talked about DC TV show is the Arrowverse.
And fyi, avid comicbook readers represent a very tiny population of the moviegoing public.
And yes, DC can still make Batman-related movies... but the question is why? Why not spend that time, effort and budget on a different character? We just had a great Batman trilogy a few years ago, why not give it a rest for a bit? Batman is not the only hero in DC you know. Batman is DC's crutch. If they always default to Batman every time they're in a pinch the DCEU will never achieve the kind of success the MCU has.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 7, 2018 6:04:21 GMT
^ actually the most talked about DC TV show is the Arrowverse. And fyi, avid comicbook readers represent a very tiny population of the moviegoing public. And yes, DC can still make Batman-related movies... but the question is why? Why not spend that time, effort and budget on a different character? We just had a great Batman trilogy a few years ago, why not give it a rest for a bit? Batman is not the only hero in DC you know. Batman is DC's crutch. If they always default to Batman every time they're in a pinch the DCEU will never achieve the kind of success the MCU has. No. He isn’t which is why myself and a lot of other longtime Batman fans have been waiting decades to see other superheroes like Batgirl, Nightwing, Red Robin, The Spoiler, Orphan, Batwoman and Red Hood on screen along with movies of Birds of Prey, Teen Titans, Batwoman and Red Hood and the Outlaws but in order to get that we need more Batman movies. If Nolan had made a proper trilogy with those characters then we wouldn’t need more Batman movies and they could have launched movies of Birds of Prey and Teen Titans from them but Nolan failed to do that and instead gave us a trilogy that was nothing like the majority of Batman comics and had more in common with many Segal and Van Damme movies of the 90s. It was Bob Kane who said a Batman without a Robin was like Sherlock Holmes without a Watson and many DC writers who said many people buy Batman comic books for the Bat Family characters and Nolan and Warner Bros disrespected all of them.
If you are going to leech off the success of characters that have been around for 50 + years instead of making your own the least you can do is respect the wishes of the creators but both DC and Marvel have a poor history of doing this and have screwed over many creators like Jerry Siegel, Stan Lee and Marv Wolfman which has lead to multiple court cases. It is not surprising the majority of the most successful NEW series like 'Saga' in the past two decades have been under Image Comics 'cause the creators don't trust the companies enough not to screw them.
I want to see DC use more superheroes especially female superheroes but the fact remains in order to have more superheroes we need to have more Batman movies to set those characters up. While I liked Hawkman, Doctor Fate, Booster Gold, Martian Manhunter etc none of those characters had the popularity to match the superheroes in the Bat Universe which is why many of them got cancelled or put together in series like the ‘Justice Society of America’ while Batgirl, Nightwing and Batwoman have their own long running series. Batgirl, Nightwing, Birds of Prey, Teen Titans, Batwoman, Red Hod and the Outlaws etc deserve movies more.
As for your comments about comic book fans, avid comic book readers are the main reason these movies exist. Without avid comic book readers many DC and Marvel series would have died off decades ago and there would be no superheroes for Time Warner and Disney to cash in on now. Avid comic book fans are also the ones who are going to keep the characters alive long after this superhero movie fad dies off (which is likely to happen in the next 10-20 years) so yes, avid comic book fans are important ‘cause it is us and not the casual Gen Y viewer that watches superhero movies ‘cause they are the flavour of the day but doesn’t read the source material who DC and Marvel are dependent on for their long term success.
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Post by hardball on Mar 7, 2018 9:50:37 GMT
No. From a financial POV, Batman is still a cash cow and if I were a movie studio bigwig I'd milk him. Nothing wrong with that.
From a storytellinig standpoint, it's good to see him interact with other heroes as Politicidal said. And if things don't pan out in the DCEU, just do a Batman cinematic universe with the bat family and villains.
And there's always the choice to just adapt Hush, the Long Halloween, Black Mirror, Court of Owls, batman beyond etc. there are lots of stories to tell.
Dark, brooding heroes are past their heyday agree, but Logan and the Netflix marvel shows there's still an audience for them. I see no reason why they can't co exist with the personality driven, relatable MCU heroes.
Another thing about Batman: he's adaptable. He can be campy, serious, humanized, a distant brooding figure, a symbol, whatever the situations calls for.
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Post by taylorfirst1 on Mar 7, 2018 15:04:50 GMT
Given how many female superheroes are in the Bat Universe in prominent roles which include the 'Birds of Prey' I am not surprised we have some people wanting Warner Bros to stop making Batman movies. Quick better stop those Batman movies before we get female superheroes on screen or worse, a lesbian superhero like Batwoman. We already have female superheroes in movies and on TV and we have a lesbian superhero as the star of Legends of Tomorrow. So obviously people that oppose such things are not a big factor. EDIT: There's also a lesbian superhero on black Lightning, so take the win.
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Post by Skaathar on Mar 7, 2018 22:27:16 GMT
Dark, brooding heroes are past their heyday agree, but Logan and the Netflix marvel shows there's still an audience for them. I see no reason why they can't co exist with the personality driven, relatable MCU heroes. The Netflix MCU shows are dark but the heroes themselves are not dark and brooding. They're all fairly chatty and full of personality. Though sometimes cynical, they're not exactly brooding. The only one who really fits that mold would be Punisher but they circumvented that by exploring his emotional trauma so he didn't end up being the standard dark, stoic vigilante type. As for Logan, the exact reason that worked so well is because they focused on Wolverine's vulnerability and emotional conflict instead of his usual rough, hot-tempered badassery.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 8, 2018 11:02:22 GMT
Given how many female superheroes are in the Bat Universe in prominent roles which include the 'Birds of Prey' I am not surprised we have some people wanting Warner Bros to stop making Batman movies. Quick better stop those Batman movies before we get female superheroes on screen or worse, a lesbian superhero like Batwoman. We already have female superheroes in movies and on TV and we have a lesbian superhero as the star of Legends of Tomorrow. So obviously people that oppose such things are not a big factor. EDIT: There's also a lesbian superhero on black Lightning, so take the win. With all due respect taylorfirst1 no. We don’t. We currently have one female superhero in the DCEU and only one female superhero that has had her own movie out of all the DCEU and MCU movies of the past 10+ years and TV shows don’t count ‘cause the TV industry has always been more progressive than movies going back to ‘The Mary Tyler Moore Show’, ‘The Bionic Woman’ and ‘Charlie’s Angels.’ It is the movies that have long had issues with female superheroes, female heroes and LGBT characters and despite having a number of successful female lead movies in the past decade female representation is down lower than it was in the 30s as I pointed out on another thread and most of the time we even see female characters in movies it is only as a love interest or side characters to male characters, all their conversations are about the male characters and a lot of the times they don’t even have names.
www.bbc.com/news/world-43197774
Until we get more of the likes of Batgirl, Supergirl, Zatanna, Raven, Starfire, Batwoman, the Black Canary, the Huntress, Lady Blackhawk, Strix, Power Girl, Vixen, Hawkgirl, The Spoiler, Orphan, Catwoman, Black Orchid, Bluebird etc in the DCEU we don’t have female superheroes. And Sara is not a lesbian. She just slept with John Constantine a couple of weeks ago. I class myself as bisexual ‘cause even though I wouldn’t go back to guys if I were single I have dated and slept with men. Sara on the other hand clearly likes both and was dating Oliver in ‘Arrow.’ Marvel’s Runaways does have a lesbian superhero with Karolina Dean and we have all seen Karolina's scenes with Nico and if ‘Project 13’ still goes through it will be the first official DC show or movie to have a lesbian lead with Traci Thirteen but that is not the movies. Batwoman being in the movies would be historic and something many of us LGBT fans have been waiting to see.
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Post by Lord Death Man on Mar 8, 2018 13:31:17 GMT
We already have female superheroes in movies and on TV and we have a lesbian superhero as the star of Legends of Tomorrow. So obviously people that oppose such things are not a big factor. EDIT: There's also a lesbian superhero on black Lightning, so take the win. With all due respect taylorfirst1 no. We don’t. We currently have one female superhero in the DCEU and only one female superhero that has had her own movie out of all the DCEU and MCU movies of the past 10+ years and TV shows don’t count ‘cause the TV industry has always been more progressive than movies going back to ‘The Mary Tyler Moore Show’, ‘The Bionic Woman’ and ‘Charlie’s Angels.’ It is the movies that have long had issues with female superheroes, female heroes and LGBT characters and despite having a number of successful female lead movies in the past decade female representation is down lower than it was in the 30s as I pointed out on another thread and most of the time we even see female characters in movies it is only as a love interest or side characters to male characters, all their conversations are about the male characters and a lot of the times they don’t even have names.
www.bbc.com/news/world-43197774
Until we get more of the likes of Batgirl, Supergirl, Zatanna, Raven, Starfire, Batwoman, the Black Canary, the Huntress, Lady Blackhawk, Strix, Power Girl, Vixen, Hawkgirl, The Spoiler, Orphan, Catwoman, Black Orchid, Bluebird etc in the DCEU we don’t have female superheroes. And Sara is not a lesbian. She just slept with John Constantine a couple of weeks ago. I class myself as bisexual ‘cause even though I wouldn’t go back to guys if I were single I have dated and slept with men. Sara on the other hand clearly likes both and was dating Oliver in ‘Arrow.’ Marvel’s Runaways does have a lesbian superhero with Karolina Dean and we have all seen Karolina's scenes with Nico and if ‘Project 13’ still goes through it will be the first official DC show or movie to have a lesbian lead with Traci Thirteen but that is not the movies. Batwoman being in the movies would be historic and something many of us LGBT fans have been waiting to see. A Zatanna film would be incredible. If done right.
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