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Post by Deleted on Mar 19, 2018 14:52:14 GMT
So does Jack Kirby get any credit among Marvel fans or is he viewed as the traitor who went to DC ?
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Post by Daisy on Mar 19, 2018 15:02:41 GMT
He's basically Stan Lee but with crayons.
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Post by sostie on Mar 19, 2018 15:22:43 GMT
Was a fan of the comics before the films and never saw him as a traitor (and he did go back to Marvel). Plenty of writers and artists went back and forth between both publishers.
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Post by Power Ranger on Mar 19, 2018 15:50:09 GMT
From the documentaries I’ve seen, he deserves just as much credit as Stan Lee. He designed the look of many of the characters. He brought the stories to life. He only left Marvel after most of the biggest icons had been established AFAIK.
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Post by Lord Death Man on Mar 19, 2018 16:11:06 GMT
So does Jack Kirby get any credit among Marvel fans or is he viewed as the traitor who went to DC ? He gets nearly as much credit as Stan especially now that the contributions of artists on comic books is being more fully understood and appreciated. You can hardly ever read a piece on the one without the other being referenced.
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Post by DC-Fan on Mar 19, 2018 17:25:34 GMT
Nope. Jack Kirby basically got screwed by Stan Lee taking all the credit, similar to how Bill Finger got screwed by Bob Kane taking all the credit. But at least WB corrected that in 2015 by giving Bill Finger co-credit.
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Post by lenlenlen1 on Mar 19, 2018 18:23:24 GMT
He's basically Stan Lee but with crayons. No, he's more than Stan Lee. Way more. There's every reason to believe that he is the true mastermind behind that duo, and an innovator in the comic book art form. Perhaps, and this is not hyperbole, the single greatest artist and contributor to the American comic book art form ever.
Stan Lee was just more vocal and good at taking credit. Stan Lee is a sales man, he sells himself and his product. But outside of the 10 to 15 year period of time when he worked with Kirby he hasn't really done anything. Do some research and take a look. Just about everyone in the know says so.
This is the one time where I can honestly say without a doubt that Kirby deserves all the praise he gets. YOU'RE favorite artists were all influenced by Kirby.
By the way, referring to Kirby as a traitor shows a total lack of knowledge of the situation. Marvel screwed him in so many ways and continued to do so until he died. And as for doing work for both DC and Marvel... EVERYONE does it. John Romita Jr who never did a day of work for DC his whole life... is now at DC. Michael Brian Bendis who never did a day of work for DC his whole life... is now at DC. etc. etc. It happens.
Crayons don't factor into it at all.
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Post by Daisy on Mar 19, 2018 18:31:41 GMT
He's basically Stan Lee but with crayons. No, he's more than Stan Lee. Way more. There's every reason to believe that he is the true mastermind behind that duo, and an innovator in the comic book art form. Perhaps, and this is not hyperbole, the single greatest artist and contributor to the American comic book art form ever.
Stan Lee was just more vocal and good at taking credit. Stan Lee is a sales man, he sells himself and his product. But outside of the 10 to 15 year period of time when he worked with Kirby he hasn't really done anything. Do some research and take a look. Just about everyone in the know says so.
This is the one time where I can honestly say without a doubt that Kirby deserves all the praise he gets. YOU'RE favorite artists were all influenced by Kirby.
By the way, referring to Kirby as a traitor shows a total lack of knowledge of the situation. Marvel screwed him in so many ways and continued to do so until he died. And as for doing work for both DC and Marvel... EVERYONE does it. John Romita Jr who never did a day of work for DC his whole life... is now at DC. Michael Brain Bendis who never did a day of work for DC his whole life... is now at DC. etc. etc. It happens.
Crayons don't factor into it at all.
Are you Jack Kirby's son?
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Post by lenlenlen1 on Mar 19, 2018 18:42:03 GMT
No, he's more than Stan Lee. Way more. There's every reason to believe that he is the true mastermind behind that duo, and an innovator in the comic book art form. Perhaps, and this is not hyperbole, the single greatest artist and contributor to the American comic book art form ever.
Stan Lee was just more vocal and good at taking credit. Stan Lee is a sales man, he sells himself and his product. But outside of the 10 to 15 year period of time when he worked with Kirby he hasn't really done anything. Do some research and take a look. Just about everyone in the know says so.
YOU'RE favorite artists were all influenced by Kirby.
By the way, referring to Kirby as a traitor shows a total lack of knowledge of the situation. Marvel screwed him in so many ways and continued to do so until he died. And as for doing work for both DC and Marvel... EVERYONE does it. John Romita Jr who never did a day of work for DC his whole life... is now at DC. Michael Brain Bendis who never did a day of work for DC his whole life... is now at DC. etc. etc. It happens.
Crayons don't factor into it at all.
Are you Jack Kirby's son? LOL! I know, I know, sounds like I'm sucking the %@$* But like I said: This is the one time where I can honestly say without a doubt that he deserves all the praise he gets. Especially since he didn't get enough when he was alive.
Joe Simon too. Jerry Siegel and Joe Shuster too. Bob Kane not as much. Batman was actually created by several people, of whom Bill Finger is only recently getting some of the credit.
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Post by sostie on Mar 19, 2018 19:04:33 GMT
Nope. Jack Kirby basically got screwed by Stan Lee taking all the credit, similar to how Bill Finger got screwed by Bob Kane taking all the credit. But at least WB corrected that in 2015 by giving Bill Finger co-credit. And for the 25 years before that Warners/DC didn't credit him The MCU have credited Kirby since the beginning and is credited on 15 films up to and including Black Panther., as well as Agents Of SHIELD, Agent Carter & The Inhumans. (didn't however get a credit in Justice League for creating Steppenwolf, ad he doesn't get credit in many of the X-Men films))
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Post by sostie on Mar 19, 2018 19:19:49 GMT
He's basically Stan Lee but with crayons. No, he's more than Stan Lee. Way more. There's every reason to believe that he is the true mastermind behind that duo, and an innovator in the comic book art form. Perhaps, and this is not hyperbole, the single greatest artist and contributor to the American comic book art form ever.
Stan Lee was just more vocal and good at taking credit. Stan Lee is a sales man, he sells himself and his product. But outside of the 10 to 15 year period of time when he worked with Kirby he hasn't really done anything. Do some research and take a look. Just about everyone in the know says so.
This is the one time where I can honestly say without a doubt that Kirby deserves all the praise he gets. YOU'RE favorite artists were all influenced by Kirby.
By the way, referring to Kirby as a traitor shows a total lack of knowledge of the situation. Marvel screwed him in so many ways and continued to do so until he died. And as for doing work for both DC and Marvel... EVERYONE does it. John Romita Jr who never did a day of work for DC his whole life... is now at DC. Michael Brian Bendis who never did a day of work for DC his whole life... is now at DC. etc. etc. It happens.
Crayons don't factor into it at all.
I wouldn't disagree that Kirby was the greatest, most important and influential comic books artists of his time, perhaps ever. But I don't think Lee's contribution should be downplayed. Between them they created some of the best characters Marvel (comic books in general) had. Lee may have been the face and voice of Marvel, and Kirby was a bit of of an introvert and wasn't interested in that part of the game, but together they made a great pairing. Nothing he did for DC on his own can compare with the work he did at Marvel.
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Post by harpospoke on Mar 19, 2018 19:23:39 GMT
It's gotten to the point where he is overrated now.
History is being rewritten all over the place. Somehow now Stan Lee was hogging credit the whole time when in fact Stan has never denied credit to Kirby.
The fact that Kirby left Marvel in anger is of course mentioned often. But somehow you never see it mentioned that Kirby also left DC in anger too. Same claims that he was being treated badly. He did that his whole career everywhere he went. The guy was just hard to get along with. There is no example of him ever being happy anywhere.
Somehow Lee was being carried by Kirby now too. Never mind that Lee managed to create other great characters without Kirby....like Spider-Man and Dr Strange for instance. Kirby did manage Capt America with Joe Simon without Lee but that's it. Frankly that character smells like a gimmick character made to appeal to a patriotic nation during WWII. It was really under Lee's tenure that Capt became the fish out of water character that managed to last over time. Kirby revisionists now pretend anyone knows who "The New Gods" are.
Kirby deserves all the credit for his drawing style that changed comics though. That's huge and should be enough without pretending that he wrote everything Stan Lee came up with too.
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Post by outrider127 on Mar 19, 2018 19:26:19 GMT
So does Jack Kirby get any credit among Marvel fans or is he viewed as the traitor who went to DC ? Don't you ever insult Jack Kirby, one of the great heros of us Marvel fans--Jack Kirby forever!
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Post by DC-Fan on Mar 19, 2018 19:43:07 GMT
He's basically Stan Lee but with crayons. No, he's more than Stan Lee. Way more. There's every reason to believe that he is the true mastermind behind that duo, and an innovator in the comic book art form. Perhaps, and this is not hyperbole, the single greatest artist and contributor to the American comic book art form ever.
Stan Lee was just more vocal and good at taking credit. Stan Lee is a sales man, he sells himself and his product. But outside of the 10 to 15 year period of time when he worked with Kirby he hasn't really done anything. Do some research and take a look. Just about everyone in the know says so.
This is the one time where I can honestly say without a doubt that Kirby deserves all the praise he gets. YOU'RE favorite artists were all influenced by Kirby.
By the way, referring to Kirby as a traitor shows a total lack of knowledge of the situation. Marvel screwed him in so many ways and continued to do so until he died.
Agreed. Jack Kirby got screwed by Stan Lee and Marvel so why should Jack Kirby show any loyalty to Stan Lee and Marvel.
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Post by harpospoke on Mar 19, 2018 19:49:25 GMT
No, he's more than Stan Lee. Way more. There's every reason to believe that he is the true mastermind behind that duo, and an innovator in the comic book art form. Perhaps, and this is not hyperbole, the single greatest artist and contributor to the American comic book art form ever.
Stan Lee was just more vocal and good at taking credit. Stan Lee is a sales man, he sells himself and his product. But outside of the 10 to 15 year period of time when he worked with Kirby he hasn't really done anything. Do some research and take a look. Just about everyone in the know says so.
This is the one time where I can honestly say without a doubt that Kirby deserves all the praise he gets. YOU'RE favorite artists were all influenced by Kirby.
By the way, referring to Kirby as a traitor shows a total lack of knowledge of the situation. Marvel screwed him in so many ways and continued to do so until he died.
Agreed. Jack Kirby got screwed by Stan Lee and Marvel so why should Jack Kirby show any loyalty to Stan Lee and Marvel. Everyone screwed Jack Kirby according to Jack Kirby. The guy was never happy at any job he ever had. He said the same things when he left DC.
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Post by DC-Fan on Mar 19, 2018 19:53:53 GMT
Nope. Jack Kirby basically got screwed by Stan Lee taking all the credit, similar to how Bill Finger got screwed by Bob Kane taking all the credit. But at least WB corrected that in 2015 by giving Bill Finger co-credit. And for the 25 years before that Warners/DC didn't credit him The MCU have credited Kirby since the beginning and is credited on 15 films up to and including Black Panther., as well as Agents Of SHIELD, Agent Carter & The Inhumans. (didn't however get a credit in Justice League for creating Steppenwolf, ad he doesn't get credit in many of the X-Men films)) Jack Kirby got screwed by Stan Lee and Marvel for decades before MCU gave Kirby any credit. As for Bill Finger, it was more Bob Kane than WB that screwed Bill Finger. When Bob Kane initially met with DC Comics to sell them on the idea for Batman, Bob Kane didn't bring Bill Finger along to the meeting and Bob Kane negotiated a contract that would credit Bob Kane in perpetuity as the sole creator of Batman. DC Comics didn't know about Bill Finger or how much Bill Finger was involved in the creation of the Batman universe. So it was really Bob Kane who screwed Bill Finger. By the time DC Comics knew of Bill Finger, they were prohibited by law from legally crediting Bill Finger since Bob Kane had a contract in perpetuity. In order to credit Bill Finger, Bob Kane's contract would have to be challenged in court to get Bill Finger credited. But WB had no standing to challenge Bob Kane's contract to credit Bill Finger. Only Bill Finger or a descendant of Bill Finger could challenge Bob Kane's contract to get Bill Finger credited. Bill Finger never challenged the contract so it was only after Bill Finger's granddaughter came forward that WB was able to negotiate a deal with Bob Kane's descendants to legally give co-credit to Bill Finger.
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Post by DC-Fan on Mar 19, 2018 20:11:15 GMT
Agreed. Jack Kirby got screwed by Stan Lee and Marvel so why should Jack Kirby show any loyalty to Stan Lee and Marvel. The guy was never happy at any job he ever had. He wasn't happy probably because Stan Lee and Marvel screwed him. Imagine working hard on a project at work and it becomes a successful project for the company but someone else takes full credit for it. You'd be unhappy too.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 19, 2018 20:15:26 GMT
So does Jack Kirby get any credit among Marvel fans or is he viewed as the traitor who went to DC ? Don't you ever insult Jack Kirby, one of the great heros of us Marvel fans--Jack Kirby forever! You have to be a really sensible snowflake if you found my question insulting.
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Post by harpospoke on Mar 19, 2018 20:16:29 GMT
And now for what Stan Lee was really like. Here he is "hogging all the credit". You'll lose count of how many times he says "we" when talking about the creative process. The only time he gives himself any credit alone is with self effacing jokes.
Check out 8:23 for Stan having some fun with DC:
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Post by harpospoke on Mar 19, 2018 20:17:52 GMT
The guy was never happy at any job he ever had. He wasn't happy probably because Stan Lee and Marvel screwed him. Imagine working hard on a project at work and it becomes a successful project for the company but someone else takes full credit for it. You'd be unhappy too. Ok...so that also means DC screwed him. Because he wasn't happy there either and also quit DC complaining about them. ....Whereupon he went back to Marvel. Or let me guess...you only take Kirby's word for it when it's Marvel, right?
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