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Post by darkpast on Mar 24, 2018 6:04:29 GMT
just can't enjoy this one at all, even if the other Disney films were disappointments, i never felt anger
some bad Star Wars films i can enjoy them in pieces, but not this
this is the worst Star Wars film.
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Post by coldenhaulfield on Mar 24, 2018 12:54:16 GMT
just can't enjoy this one at all, even if the other Disney films were disappointments, i never felt anger some bad Star Wars films i can enjoy them in pieces, but not this this is the worst Disney Wars film, none of which are canon or real Star Wars but by definition fan fiction drivel.
Fixed.
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Post by Waxer-n-boil on Mar 24, 2018 18:15:27 GMT
just can't enjoy this one at all, even if the other Disney films were disappointments, i never felt anger some bad Star Wars films i can enjoy them in pieces, but not this this is the worst Disney Wars film, none of which are canon or real Star Wars but by definition fan fiction drivel.
Fixed. Agreed 100%.
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Post by sdrew13163 on Mar 26, 2018 18:40:27 GMT
I actually agree.
Wow. I never expected to say that.
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Post by outrider127 on Mar 26, 2018 18:45:12 GMT
just can't enjoy this one at all, even if the other Disney films were disappointments, i never felt anger some bad Star Wars films i can enjoy them in pieces, but not this this is the worst Star Wars film. No question about it, most fans agree with you, and look at the miserable 48% RT Audience Approval rating
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Post by Tristan's Journal on Mar 28, 2018 18:55:59 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Mar 29, 2018 14:59:20 GMT
TLJ is the worst and it's not even close.
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pete8680
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Post by pete8680 on Mar 31, 2018 23:54:34 GMT
TFA did the impossible. It made me like TFA more.
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BlunteD
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Post by BlunteD on Apr 1, 2018 0:09:35 GMT
They flushed Star Wars down the bloody loo, mate.
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bb15
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Post by bb15 on Apr 1, 2018 5:59:59 GMT
I saw The Last Jedi twice. I liked it less the second time. Then came the Kylo/Rey shippers, & I liked TLJ less. Then came those who repeat Luke's words that the Jedi are failures & there should be no new Jedi & liked TLJ even less.
The Last Jedi is a complete rejection of previous Star Wars in terms of the Jedi Order. It is pushing the idea that the Jedi Order are losers which is a terrible idea. (Hey Jedi [Obi-Wan, Yoda & Luke with Vader's help] killed Palpatine. That's victory!) Rian Johnson's script is a mess. The DJ super code breaker just happens to be living in a jail cell for fun? Absurd. Admiral Holdo doesn't tell Poe the plan to get to the new resistance base? Awful. Rose turns around her speeder at Poe's orders but is still able to catch up to Finn before he gets to the beam? Luke goes to all the trouble of Force projecting his image on the salt flats so he doesn't get killed but he dies anyway?
This is terrible writing. Last Jedi is the first Star Wars film that I will not buy a disk for (& I've got multiple copies of all the other SW films). Imo it is the worst Star Wars film.
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Post by Nicko's Nose on Apr 1, 2018 6:24:48 GMT
Never seen it.
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Post by Waxer-n-boil on Apr 1, 2018 6:35:16 GMT
TFA was a hack job mess also. Abrams just Jedi mind tricked a lot of people out of seeing it with the nostalgia and mystery box. TLJ was going to dead end all the same storylines even if Abrams wrote it, because that's what he always does. He just got RJ to be the fall guy for it (coward that he is). And Kathleen Kay compensated Rian for being the fall guy by giving him his own trilogy. If Abrams actually cleans this mess up and fixes storyline issues, you'll be able to knock me over with a feather!
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bb15
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Post by bb15 on Apr 1, 2018 8:51:06 GMT
A rehash of Star Wars ideas is a Star Wars movie which duplicates what came before. You may not like it, but a repeat of SW canon is within Star Wars canon. Last Jedi is different. Not only is it badly written from the basic rules of story writing but it has things which are a complete violation of canon from the original trilogy. - Remember the end of A New Hope? When everyone was happy? That's about a victory. No says Rian Johnson, the end of ANH was about a failure because everything the Jedi try to do are failures & they should disappear. - The same thing applies to the end of Return of the Jedi which was also about a victory with smiling Jedi Luke & the Jedi Force ghosts. Johnson says that celebration was also really a failure because that is all the Jedi can do now, be failures. - This is why the Last Jedi sinks to the bottom of all Star Wars movies. Not because I feel bad about it. Because it violates obvious facts about the basic meaning of the Jedi and their victories from the original trilogy.
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Post by Tristan's Journal on Apr 1, 2018 10:11:37 GMT
TFA was a hack job mess also. Abrams just Jedi mind tricked a lot of people out of seeing it with the nostalgia and mystery box. TLJ was going to dead end all the same storylines even if Abrams wrote it, because that's what he always does. He just got RJ to be the fall guy for it (coward that he is). And Kathleen Kay compensated Rian for being the fall guy by giving him his own trilogy. thus, without putting lipstick on the pig: JJA produced it, Ryan shat it out. it must be the type of feather that makes pigs fly.
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Post by Tristan's Journal on Apr 1, 2018 10:56:19 GMT
A rehash of Star Wars ideas is a Star Wars movie which duplicates what came before. You may not like it, but a repeat of SW canon is within Star Wars canon. you may not like it but rehashing comes in nuances and degrees. TFA was the pinnacle of rehash, TLJ did it too but to a much lower degree. And Lucas did it to a even lower extent, artistically apt, so that we can call it variation (or rhyming). Need an example? - Throne room scene was blatantly rehashed in TLJ - In Sith we get it too, but brilliantly modified with Palps tempting Anakin in a Sith-fight with Dooku, playing the hostage on the throne. or Who's your Daddy: - in TFA a underwhelming cheesy revelation: "your father, HAAAN SOOOLO" - in the PT: a very subtle mystery reveal who Anakin's father is and how he was created (in Sith and TFM) The former is on your nose the latter is so subtle most don't even get it. Theme variation. The difference between hack and talent. All fine. But you are mistaking cause and effect. The OT achievements, lore and character arcs were indeed nullified. But that was done in TFA already. Examples: - Have you studied the crawl in TFA "Luke the LAST JEDI" Thus Luke failed to establish a Jedi Order and let the same old crap happen again (Skywalker betrays Jedi with dark side lord). What does Luke do about it, does he redeem Kylo and destroy Snoke cleanin up his mess? No he hides on an unfindable island leaving a silly map. And he "in the meantime" lets the Empire rise again killing billions including family. Is this Luke or Jake? - Where in the OT and PT could you "download" the Force and any ability you need by closing your eyes? What happened to "learning the ways of the force" or craft. - What's up with Adult Diaper Hans? Did he not have an responsibility arc in the OT, now he fails as husband and father (ok, shit happens) but then runs away when his only son is seduced, and Hans becomes a merry geriatric smuggler again (with one of the most recognizable faces, Wookie-buddies and ship in the galaxy, do they even know what smuggling is about?). Is this Han or Hans? - Why is Kylo praying to granddad Vader to save him from the "light", Vader destroyed the dark side by turning and became a good Force ghost. Kylo the biggest Vader fanboy did not know that? Or did Force ghost Vader turn evil again? ...etc etc.... So, if you want to point fingers, you need more than one here, pal.
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Post by Waxer-n-boil on Apr 1, 2018 12:39:11 GMT
A rehash of Star Wars ideas is a Star Wars movie which duplicates what came before. You may not like it, but a repeat of SW canon is within Star Wars canon. you may not like it but rehashing comes in nuances and degrees. TFA was the pinnacle of rehash, TLJ did it too but to a much lower degree. And Lucas did it to a even lower extent, artistically apt, so that we can call it variation (or rhyming). Need an example? - Throne room scene was blatantly rehashed in TLJ - In Sith we get it too, but brilliantly modified with Palps tempting Anakin in a Sith-fight with Dooku, playing the hostage on the throne. or Who's your Daddy: - in TFA a underwhelming cheesy revelation: "your father, HAAAN SOOOLO" - in the PT: a very subtle mystery reveal who Anakin's father is and how he was created (in Sith and TFM) The former is on your nose the latter is so subtle most don't even get it. Theme variation. The difference between hack and talent. All fine. But you are mistaking cause and effect. The OT achievements, lore and character arcs were indeed nullified. But that was done in TFA already. Examples: - Have you studied the crawl in TFA "Luke the LAST JEDI" Thus Luke failed to establish a Jedi Order and let the same old crap happen again (Skywalker betrays Jedi with dark side lord). What does Luke do about it, does he redeem Kylo and destroy Snoke cleanin up his mess? No he hides on an unfindable island leaving a silly map. And he "in the meantime" lets the Empire rise again killing billions including family. Is this Luke or Jake? - Where in the OT and PT could you "download" the Force and any ability you need by closing your eyes? What happened to "learning the ways of the force" or craft. - What's up with Adult Diaper Hans? Did he not have an responsibility arc in the OT, now he fails as husband and father (ok, shit happens) but then runs away when his only son is seduced, and Hans becomes a merry geriatric smuggler again (with one of the most recognizable faces, Wookie-buddies and ship in the galaxy, do they even know what smuggling is about?). Is this Han or Hans? - Why is Kylo praying to granddad Vader to save him from the "light", Vader destroyed the dark side by turning and became a good Force ghost. Kylo the biggest Vader fanboy did not know that? Or did Force ghost Vader turn evil again? ...etc etc.... So, if you want to point fingers, you need more than one here, pal. Here's some more from TFA: * The people on Takadonna can see the light of the explosion of the Hosnian system, even though that's impossible by the laws of physics. * Kylo killed Lor San Tekka before he knew where the map fragment was. Even though at the time San Tekka was the only one who knew where it was. If Poe had never taken a shot at him then Kylo is screwed. (It would've made sense for Kylo to take San Tekka prisoner and interrogate him). * Rey was the only person desperate to get BB8 to his destination even though she insisted she had to go back to Jakku. And even though everyone else actually had a better reason to. Finn = said himself that he had seen the horrors of the First Order and now considers them evil (Nope! Not enough reason) Han = talked about how important Luke was and how real the Force is to Rey and Finn; hasn't seen his best friend in years and now has a clue where he might be (Nope! Not enough reason!) Maz = gives several dramatic speaches about how evil the First Order is and how important it is to stop them. (Nope! Not enough reason) Rey = befriended a droid a day ago and accidentally ran into circumstances that forced her to leave Jakku... * In TFA Rey constantly implied that she hated to use the Force or was afraid of knowingly using it. Those are traits that according to previous lore either hindered your ability to use the Force or drew you to the Darkside. But not so with Rey. In fact she was stronger and more aligned to the Light under those circumstances. * Kylo limping after Rey and Finn after being shot by Chewbacca. But somehow he "magically" Force teleports ahead of Rey and Finn in the forest, even though Rey and Finn were running. * C3PO suggesting that looking for the rest of the map to find Luke Skywalker in R2D2 is stupid. Never mind that R2D2 is Luke Skywalker's droid and that like BB8, astromech droids are built to carry such things! * Apparently the entire Resistance agrees with C3PO. Because in all the years that Luke has been missing, Leia (Luke's own sister) nor any of these other alleged mastermind generals tried to check R2D2 for the map either!
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Post by Waxer-n-boil on Apr 1, 2018 14:54:40 GMT
TFA was a hack job mess also. Abrams just Jedi mind tricked a lot of people out of seeing it with the nostalgia and mystery box. TLJ was going to dead end all the same storylines even if Abrams wrote it, because that's what he always does. He just got RJ to be the fall guy for it (coward that he is). And Kathleen Kay compensated Rian for being the fall guy by giving him his own trilogy. thus, without putting lipstick on the pig: JJA produced it, Ryan shat it out. it must be the type of feather that makes pigs fly. LOL!
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Post by harpospoke on Apr 1, 2018 19:54:39 GMT
It's definitely in competition with the Prequels.
But TLJ just seemed to totally miss the mark in understanding the character of Luke. That's a special kind of stupid.
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bb15
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Post by bb15 on Apr 1, 2018 22:58:22 GMT
TFA was the pinnacle of rehash, Fine, but as I wrote; a rehash of Star Wars canon remains within Star Wars canon. rehashing comes in nuances and degrees. I'm not going to debate "nuances and degrees" with you because that leads directly to gut reactions and personal taste. * My argument has nothing to do with gut emotions. * First, my view is based on my recognizing plot points in Star Wars live action films which are consistent and therefore in canon. - For instance in ESB Vader cuts Luke's hand off with a lightsaber. - In ROTJ Luke cuts Vader's hand off with a lightsaber. - A lightsaber cutting off a hand in one SW movie = a lightsaber cutting off a hand in another SW film which is consistent with canon. * I imagine your emotional reaction is to consider the ROTJ hand cutting as nuanced or I could add more descriptive terms; artistic, thrilling, etc. ** But these subjective descriptions based on personal taste are not important for my part in this discussion. Last Jedi is different. Not only is it badly written from the basic rules of story writing but it has things which are a complete violation of canon from the original trilogy. - Remember the end of A New Hope? When everyone was happy? That's about a victory. No says Rian Johnson, the end of ANH was about a failure because everything the Jedi try to do are failures & they should disappear. - The same thing applies to the end of Return of the Jedi which was also about a victory with smiling Jedi Luke & the Jedi Force ghosts. Johnson says that celebration was also really a failure because that is all the Jedi can do now, be failures. - This is why the Last Jedi sinks to the bottom of all Star Wars movies. Not because I feel bad about it. Because it violates obvious facts about the basic meaning of the Jedi and their victories from the original trilogy. Thank you for at least agreeing with me that Last Jedi violates basic SW canon from the OT. The OT achievements, lore and character arcs were indeed nullified. But that was done in TFA already. No. Luke failed to establish a Jedi Order Obi-Wan and Yoda in the OT also failed to establish a Jedi Order. Not establishing a Jedi Order or having trouble doing so is consistent with SW canon. Do Obi-Wan and Yoda redeem Anakin in the prequels? No. Not redeeming a Force user who is attracted to the Dark side is consistent with SW canon. Do Obi-Wan and Yoda destroy Palpatine in the prequels? No. Not destroying a master dark side Force user is consistent with SW canon. (Luke) hides on an unfindable island. And in the OT Obi-Wan hides on Tatooine and Yoda hides on Degobah. Jedi hiding from a master dark side Force user is consistent with SW canon. - Where in the OT and PT could you "download" the Force and any ability you need by closing your eyes? That's not my interpretation of what happened with Rey in TFA. To me the proper explanation was that Rey learned the ways of the Force before coming to Jakku. Those memories were repressed and emerged during TFA. * That's the way her backstory should have been written in TLJ. But Disney hired Rian Johnson. And he has no clue about Star Wars canon and Johnson blew it when writing Rey's backstory. * It was well known what the expectations were of many of the fans for TLJ. Many fans wanted TLJ to be consistent with SW canon. Johnson with the blessing of the studio violated fan expectations & SW canon. (Han) fails as husband and father (ok, shit happens) but then runs away when his only son is seduced, and Hans becomes a merry geriatric smuggler again All of that is consistent with Han in the OT (as part of SW canon). Fathers who leave families exist in our world. OT Han is that kind of guy. As he says in ESB, he's a "scoundrel". As for smuggling, that's what Han is good at in ANH. - Why is Kylo praying to granddad Vader to save him from the "light", Vader destroyed the dark side by turning and became a good Force ghost. Kylo the biggest Vader fanboy did not know that? 1. A Force ghost may not visit people. - Qui-Gon was the first Jedi to become a Force ghost (according to Yoda) and Luke never sees dead Qui-Gon. 2. In a ~20 year career of murder and genocide Vader had 30 minutes of being a nice guy. - It is plausible that his grandson could remember 20 years of slaughter over 30 minutes of doing good. 3. PT Anakin became irrational (thinking Palpatine was good & that Obi-Wan was an enemy). TFA Kylo character in some ways is similar to PT trilogy Anakin. Kylo in TFA is also irrational in his almost worship of a helmet and the memory of when his grandfather was evil. As Rey says, Kylo wanted to be as great a dark side Force user as Vader. *** How could Disney allow TLJ to contradict basic SW canon? 1. Lawrence Kasdan wrote the script for ESB and co-wrote TFA. Kasdan knows Star Wars. This is one reason why TFA is consistent with SW canon. He and Abrams could have written TLJ if Disney gave them enough time but the studio didn't do that. 2. Disney is out for a cash grab with Star Wars. To keep the same filmmaking team requires at least 3 years between the main arc SW films. Disney wants more $ and so is releasing main timeline SW movies every 2 years. This requires new filmmakers for each main arc SW film. 3. Result; Disney/Kathleen Kennedy hired Rian Johnson, who doesn't understand Star Wars, and he created a film which violates basic SW canon.
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Post by coldenhaulfield on Apr 1, 2018 23:10:44 GMT
TFA was the pinnacle of rehash, Fine, but as I wrote; a rehash of Star Wars canon remains within Star Wars canon. rehashing comes in nuances and degrees. I'm not going to debate "nuances and degrees" with you because that leads directly to gut reactions and personal taste. * My argument has nothing to do with gut emotions. * First, my view is based on my recognizing plot points in Star Wars live action films which are consistent and therefore in canon. - For instance in ESB Vader cuts Luke's hand off with a lightsaber. - In ROTJ Luke cuts Vader's hand off with a lightsaber. - A lightsaber cutting off a hand in one SW movie = a lightsaber cutting off a hand in another SW film which is consistent with canon. * I imagine your emotional reaction is to consider the ROTJ hand cutting as nuanced or I could add more descriptive terms; artistic, thrilling, etc. ** But these subjective descriptions based on personal taste are not important for my part in this discussion. Last Jedi is different. Not only is it badly written from the basic rules of story writing but it has things which are a complete violation of canon from the original trilogy. - Remember the end of A New Hope? When everyone was happy? That's about a victory. No says Rian Johnson, the end of ANH was about a failure because everything the Jedi try to do are failures & they should disappear. - The same thing applies to the end of Return of the Jedi which was also about a victory with smiling Jedi Luke & the Jedi Force ghosts. Johnson says that celebration was also really a failure because that is all the Jedi can do now, be failures. - This is why the Last Jedi sinks to the bottom of all Star Wars movies. Not because I feel bad about it. Because it violates obvious facts about the basic meaning of the Jedi and their victories from the original trilogy. Thank you for at least agreeing with me that Last Jedi violates basic SW canon from the OT. The OT achievements, lore and character arcs were indeed nullified. But that was done in TFA already. No. Luke failed to establish a Jedi Order Obi-Wan and Yoda in the OT also failed to establish a Jedi Order. Not establishing a Jedi Order or having trouble doing so is consistent with SW canon. Do Obi-Wan and Yoda redeem Anakin in the prequels? No. Not redeeming a Force user who is attracted to the Dark side is consistent with SW canon. Do Obi-Wan and Yoda destroy Palpatine in the prequels? No. Not destroying a master dark side Force user is consistent with SW canon. (Luke) hides on an unfindable island. And in the OT Obi-Wan hides on Tatooine and Yoda hides on Degobah. Jedi hiding from a master dark side Force user is consistent with SW canon. - Where in the OT and PT could you "download" the Force and any ability you need by closing your eyes? That's not my interpretation of what happened with Rey in TFA. To me the proper explanation was that Rey learned the ways of the Force before coming to Jakku. Those memories were repressed and emerged during TFA. * That's the way her backstory should have been written in TLJ. But Disney hired Rian Johnson. And he has no clue about Star Wars canon and Johnson blew it when writing Rey's backstory. (Han) fails as husband and father (ok, shit happens) but then runs away when his only son is seduced, and Hans becomes a merry geriatric smuggler again All of that is consistent with Han in the OT (as part of SW canon). Fathers who leave families exist in our world. OT Han is that kind of guy. As he says in ESB, he's a "scoundrel". As for smuggling, that's what Han is good at in ANH. - Why is Kylo praying to granddad Vader to save him from the "light", Vader destroyed the dark side by turning and became a good Force ghost. Kylo the biggest Vader fanboy did not know that? 1. A Force ghost may not visit people. - Qui-Gon was the first Jedi to become a Force ghost (according to Yoda) and Luke never sees dead Qui-Gon. 2. In a ~20 year career of murder and genocide Vader had 30 minutes of being a nice guy. - It is plausible that his grandson could remember 20 years of slaughter over 30 minutes of doing good. 3. PT Anakin became irrational (thinking Palpatine was good & that Obi-Wan was an enemy). TFA Kylo character in some ways is similar to PT trilogy Anakin. Kylo in TFA is also irrational in his almost worship of a helmet and the memory of when his grandfather was evil. As Rey says, Kylo wanted to be as great a dark side Force user as Vader. *** How could Disney allow TLJ to contradict basic SW canon? 1. Lawrence Kasdan wrote the script for ESB and co-wrote TFA. Kasdan knows Star Wars. This is one reason why TFA is consistent with SW canon. He and Abrams could have written TLJ if Disney gave them enough time but the studio didn't do that. 2. Disney is out for a cash grab with Star Wars. To keep the same filmmaking team requires at least 3 years between the main arc SW films. Disney wants more $ and so is releasing main timeline SW movies every 2 years. This requires new filmmakers for each main arc SW film. 3. Result; Disney/Kathleen Kennedy hired Rian Johnson, who doesn't understand Star Wars, and he created a film which violates basic SW canon. Yo, man! Glad to see you back here.
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