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Post by Deleted on May 15, 2018 11:25:05 GMT
Inventing problems then pretending you have the only cure. It's a simple but effective con job for the gullible. Can you clarify your statement please. You take a list of genuinely harmful things - murder, theft, etc. You mix in harmless things such as masturbation, sex, thinking the wrong thoughts, etc. Stuff that literally everyone does. You tell people that these things are all wrong and that they're doomed to a horrific fate because they do the "bad" things. Make sure you set the bar on this so high that nobody can possibly avoid the horrific fate - literally one example of doing one bad thing, thinking one bad thought, in an entire lifetime is more than enough to outweigh every single good thing the person has ever done. Then you offer a solution - they can avoid the horrific fate! And all they have to do is follow the rules you've set down for them. Hey presto, you now have a way to control people who are silly enough to believe your thesis. |
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Post by Cody™ on May 15, 2018 11:39:22 GMT
Can you clarify your statement please. You take a list of genuinely harmful things - murder, theft, etc. You mix in harmless things such as masturbation, sex, thinking the wrong thoughts, etc. Stuff that literally everyone does. You tell people that these things are all wrong and that they're doomed to a horrific fate because they do the "bad" things. Make sure you set the bar on this so high that nobody can possibly avoid the horrific fate - literally one example of doing one bad thing, thinking one bad thought, in an entire lifetime is more than enough to outweigh every single good thing the person has ever done. Then you offer a solution - they can avoid the horrific fate! And all they have to do is follow the rules you've set down for them. Hey presto, you now have a way to control people who are silly enough to believe your thesis. Now provide your evidence. You made a contention, now back it up. And, no, putting 2 and 2 together and coming up for 5 is not evidence. So far all you’ve done is made an unverified assertion. |
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Post by Deleted on May 15, 2018 11:57:51 GMT
You take a list of genuinely harmful things - murder, theft, etc. You mix in harmless things such as masturbation, sex, thinking the wrong thoughts, etc. Stuff that literally everyone does. You tell people that these things are all wrong and that they're doomed to a horrific fate because they do the "bad" things. Make sure you set the bar on this so high that nobody can possibly avoid the horrific fate - literally one example of doing one bad thing, thinking one bad thought, in an entire lifetime is more than enough to outweigh every single good thing the person has ever done. Then you offer a solution - they can avoid the horrific fate! And all they have to do is follow the rules you've set down for them. Hey presto, you now have a way to control people who are silly enough to believe your thesis. Now provide your evidence. You made a contention, now back it up. And, no, putting 2 and 2 together and coming up for 5 is not evidence. So far all you’ve done is made an unverified assertion. I've described the doctrines of christianity. The evidence is that christianity actually does preach these things. Christian texts describe harmful things such as murder as sinful (Exodus 20:13 : Thou shalt not kill). They also describe harmless things as sinful (Matthew 5:28 : But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart). It tells people that they are doomed to a horrific fate if they do these things (Matthew 25:46 : Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life. Revelation 21:8 : But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.) And of course the bar is set so high that nobody can avoid this fate. (Romans 3:23 : For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God.) But it offers a solution. (Romans 10:9-10 : That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. : If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.) Simple really. |
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Post by Cody™ on May 15, 2018 12:27:57 GMT
Now provide your evidence. You made a contention, now back it up. And, no, putting 2 and 2 together and coming up for 5 is not evidence. So far all you’ve done is made an unverified assertion. I've described the doctrines of christianity. The evidence is that christianity actually does preach these things. Christian texts describe harmful things such as murder as sinful (Exodus 20:13 : Thou shalt not kill). They also describe harmless things as sinful (Matthew 5:28 : But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart). It tells people that they are doomed to a horrific fate if they do these things (Matthew 25:46 : Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life. Revelation 21:8 : But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.) And of course the bar is set so high that nobody can avoid this fate. (Romans 3:23 : For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God.) But it offers a solution. (Romans 10:9-10 : That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. : If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.) Simple really. Pointing out doctrines from the bible that you don’t fully understand and drawing your own conclusions is not evidence that they were created to control people. Also so what do you suppose the writers stood to gain from controlling people based on what they wrote? |
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Post by Deleted on May 15, 2018 12:48:42 GMT
Pointing out doctrines from the bible that you don’t fully understand and drawing your own conclusions is not evidence that they were created to control people. Then how fortunate for me that I did not do this. I dodged a bullet there! I choose not to speculate on the motives of people long dead. |
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Post by Rodney Farber on May 15, 2018 13:26:26 GMT
When was masturbation evil? In Genesis 38:10, Jehovah, the vindictive control-freak God to whom you pray, invoked the death penalty. What a nice guy. When I was in college, my roommate told us of a time he was in church. The priest was taking confessions when he heard the priest exclaim in a voice everyone could hear, "You what??? You masturbated???" The young lad who left the confessional was as red-faced as could be. |
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Post by kls on May 15, 2018 13:27:47 GMT
I've never heard a priest speak on the issue.
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Post by Eva Yojimbo on May 15, 2018 14:55:08 GMT
Thanks @cody. I had not voted and was undecided until you posted this. It is now clear that it is for control by religious leaders. Yes because sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions and envy; drunkenness, and orgies are all healthy and positive things that humans should indulge in. Sex is extremely healthy and should be indulged in as much as one wants however they want as long as they aren't harming anyone else. As for the rest; without selfish ambition we wouldn't have any of the great artists or inventors or scientists or leaders or anything else. A little selfish ambition is a good thing. We can do without the rest, though. |
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Post by Cody™ on May 15, 2018 15:02:50 GMT
Eva YojimboFirstly, the passage is talking about sexual immorality. The bible doesn’t say sex isn’t healthy. Secondly, what if they’re harming themselves?
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Post by Cody™ on May 15, 2018 15:25:53 GMT
Pointing out doctrines from the bible that you don’t fully understand and drawing your own conclusions is not evidence that they were created to control people. Then how fortunate for me that I did not do this. I dodged a bullet there! I choose not to speculate on the motives of people long dead. So no evidence then? Gotcha. |
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Post by captainbryce on May 15, 2018 15:49:20 GMT
When was masturbation evil? I think the intended question is why is it a sin. |
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Post by Deleted on May 15, 2018 16:13:31 GMT
Then how fortunate for me that I did not do this. I dodged a bullet there! I choose not to speculate on the motives of people long dead. So no evidence then? Gotcha. Asks for evidence. Evidence is given. Claims no evidence. Interesting approach. |
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on May 15, 2018 17:29:47 GMT
When was masturbation evil? In Genesis 38:10, Jehovah, the vindictive control-freak God to whom you pray, invoked the death penalty. What a nice guy. When I was in college, my roommate told us of a time he was in church. The priest was taking confessions when he heard the priest exclaim in a voice everyone could hear, "You what??? You masturbated???" The young lad who left the confessional was as red-faced as could be. Was Tamar, his brother's wife, just another name for his hand? |
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on May 15, 2018 17:33:24 GMT
When was masturbation evil? I think the intended question is why is it a sin. I'm not sure masturbation is a sin in and of itself. We do it subconsciously sometimes. However, a lack of self-control or lust would be sinful. Sometime you have to do something with that boner, but why seek out a boner when there's no reason to? Maybe there's a better verse to indicate the sin/evil of masturbation that what the OP provided. I don;t think this was something that would be considered a major issue. Onan isn't the example to use unless we redefine masturbation. |
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Post by Cody™ on May 15, 2018 17:41:32 GMT
So no evidence then? Gotcha. Asks for evidence. Evidence is given. Claims no evidence. Interesting approach. Quoting verses you’re ignorant about is not evidence that the authors created it to control people. I’ve already explained this to you Graham. As much as you’d like to believe that the bible was created to control people, it really wasn’t. It was created to help people. And you still haven’t addressed for what reason you believe the bible is trying to control people? |
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Post by captainbryce on May 15, 2018 18:18:00 GMT
I think the intended question is why is it a sin. I'm not sure masturbation is a sin in and of itself. It depends on which version of religion you subscribe to. According to Catholicism, it is a mortal sin. Obviously I don’t believe that it is, particularly in the basis that I don’t believe in sin (mortal or otherwise). We do it subconsciously sometimes. However, a lack of self-control or lust would be sinful. Sometime you have to do something with that boner, but why seek out a boner when there's no reason to? That’s a question you’d have to wrestle with yourself since you are the one who believes that it could be a sin. I don’t, so I see no reason to ask such questions. To me the question is silly, as it presumes a reason is required in order to make it NOT be a sin. I don’t need a reason to eat Oreo cookies other than they taste good and I want some. |
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Post by Deleted on May 15, 2018 18:23:25 GMT
Asks for evidence. Evidence is given. Claims no evidence. Interesting approach. Quoting verses you’re ignorant about is not evidence that the authors created it to control people. I’ve already explained this to you Graham. Yes. And I've already expressed my relief at having avoided this. Evidence? I did. I said I prefer not to speculate about dead people. Unlike you.[/quote][/quote] |
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Post by Deleted on May 15, 2018 19:38:49 GMT
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on May 15, 2018 21:37:21 GMT
I'm not sure masturbation is a sin in and of itself. It depends on which version of religion you subscribe to. According to Catholicism, it is a mortal sin. Obviously I don’t believe that it is, particularly in the basis that I don’t believe in sin (mortal or otherwise). We do it subconsciously sometimes. However, a lack of self-control or lust would be sinful. Sometime you have to do something with that boner, but why seek out a boner when there's no reason to? That’s a question you’d have to wrestle with yourself since you are the one who believes that it could be a sin. I don’t, so I see no reason to ask such questions. To me the question is silly, as it presumes a reason is required in order to make it NOT be a sin. I don’t need a reason to eat Oreo cookies other than they taste good and I want some. 1. I'm not concerned with what religions subscribe to if there's no Biblical evidence for it. 2. I don't really have a question of how much someone masturbate. Only they know why boners are awesome enough to fondle repeatedly. As long as I don;t have to shake your hand afterward, it's all good!  |
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Post by rizdek on May 15, 2018 22:36:02 GMT
Asks for evidence. Evidence is given. Claims no evidence. Interesting approach. Quoting verses you’re ignorant about is not evidence that the authors created it to control people. I’ve already explained this to you Graham. As much as you’d like to believe that the bible was created to control people, it really wasn’t. It was created to help people. And you still haven’t addressed for what reason you believe the bible is trying to control people? Now who's making up things they know nothing about? You have absolutely NO CLUE why the Bible was really written notwithstanding the various explanations and platitudes it contains. It seems very much like it was written partially by people who genuinely wanted to help people, some who were batcrap crazy...likely on drugs or hallucinating, some who were just copying down stories they'd heard, some who were political activists, and some who needed to control a people (ie Moses). |
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