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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Jul 28, 2018 16:18:44 GMT
@eddyhops Doubt what words? I didn't contradict myself. Dude, you can't insist there is an unforgivable sin, then claim you don't know if it's forgivable or not. That is the very definition of contradiction. The two have nothing to do with each other. Just because I know how to read about what unforgivable sin is in no way correlates to me being an arbiter of it. There's no question it exist, there's all kinds of questions to me determining who has committed it. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 28, 2018 16:21:27 GMT
Dude, you can't insist there is an unforgivable sin, then claim you don't know if it's forgivable or not. That is the very definition of contradiction. The two have nothing to do with each other. They do if one believes the word of god is the actual word of god, then proceeds to use the word as an example of something they then claim they don't know if god really thinks or not. So you're saying scripture may be wrong, or you at least disagree with it? |
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Jul 28, 2018 16:25:22 GMT
The two have nothing to do with each other. They do if one believes the word of god is the actual word of god, then proceeds to use the word as an example of something they then claim they don't know if god really thinks or not. So you're saying scripture may be wrong, or you at least disagree with it? Not at all since the unforgivable sin both exists and will be implemented on those who deserve it. You must be going to FF's school of pointless meandering arguing. Again, if you would simply answer the question I provided, you would understand the notion of unforgivable sin although it is entirely your right to ignore it and pretend there's a discrepancy. I'm sure it's one of the ones in your signature link. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 28, 2018 16:29:27 GMT
They do if one believes the word of god is the actual word of god, then proceeds to use the word as an example of something they then claim they don't know if god really thinks or not. So you're saying scripture may be wrong, or you at least disagree with it? Not at all since the unforgivable sin both exists and will be implemented on those who deserve it. You must be going to FF's school of pointless meandering arguing. Again, if you would simply answer the question I provided, you would understand the notion of unforgivable sin although it is entirely your right to ignore it and pretend there's a discrepancy. I'm sure it's one of the ones in your signature link. What question? The hyperbolic hoops you guys jump through... "Is there an unforgivable sin?"
"Yes"
"So can I be forgiven for it?
"I don't know"
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Post by Catman on Jul 28, 2018 16:33:28 GMT
Saying mean things about cats ranks right up there.
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Post by phludowin on Jul 28, 2018 19:22:54 GMT
I am not really a religious person. For me, when someone does something I don't like, then this someone is committing a sin.
Are there sins I wouldn't forgive? I don't know. Maybe.
More important for a society is: Are there unforgivable crimes?
The answer, as evidenced by judiciary systems, is: Yes. Every crime that gets punished by death or lifelong imprisonment is unforgivable, sort of. Because the criminal has never a chance to reintegrate the society.
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Post by lowtacks86 on Jul 28, 2018 19:55:35 GMT
Trying to kill God and take his place. He's typically not too happy about usurpers.
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Post by goz on Jul 29, 2018 21:46:19 GMT
An interesting thing about JW's and unforgivable sin is the annointed who rule in heaven are a fixed number - 144,000. So what happens when one of them is disfellowshipped? Since the number must be maintained at 144,000 and that anointing is by holy spirit, once one is disfellowshipped there's no reason to think they get it back if there is a replacement chosen soon after. Because the ones who live on earth aren't in a demoted position, there's no reason to think that they would join their ranks. Where did that number come from? and why? |
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Post by goz on Jul 29, 2018 21:54:09 GMT
Not at all since the unforgivable sin both exists and will be implemented on those who deserve it. You must be going to FF's school of pointless meandering arguing. Again, if you would simply answer the question I provided, you would understand the notion of unforgivable sin although it is entirely your right to ignore it and pretend there's a discrepancy. I'm sure it's one of the ones in your signature link. What question? The hyperbolic hoops you guys jump through... "Is there an unforgivable sin?"
"Yes"
"So can I be forgiven for it?
"I don't know"
..and the next phase of the hyperbolic hoop, the one after I don't know' is "only God knows". |
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Post by koskiewicz on Jul 31, 2018 16:12:23 GMT
...farting in a crowded elevator and blaming it on someone else...
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Jul 31, 2018 16:17:03 GMT
...farting in a crowded elevator and blaming it on someone else... I own that.
That way, I get the elevator to myself next time.
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Post by mslo79 on Aug 10, 2018 10:47:04 GMT
Here is a homily by a priest on unforgivable sins... www.datafilehost.com/d/758fcd3b (Opus format @ 13kbps(14kbps actual bit rate)) ; it's a 13min41sec audio file. 4min6sec on forward gets more to the point though. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 10, 2018 10:49:52 GMT
No.
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Post by captainbryce on Aug 10, 2018 10:56:54 GMT
Yes. Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. Note to all you smart-alecks here on RFS; Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit isn't simply speaking irreverently against the Holy Spirit. It's far more complicated than that. It takes the following forms: 1)Obstinacy in one's own sinfulness, 2)Presumption in one's own personal salvation, 3)Despair in one's own sinfulness, 4)Resisting a Holy Truth, 5)Envy of the Spiritual Gifts which are Given to others, 6)Final Impenitence. And this is spelled out where exactly? |
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Post by captainbryce on Aug 10, 2018 10:58:04 GMT
The unforgivable sin is sinning against the holy spirit...Basically rejecting God despite knowing they are true. It's a particular type of blasphemy of denying something you know to be true about God. Ones likely guilty of it are Judas & the religious leaders who plotted & succeeded in killing Jesus. That’s if you assume any of them truly believed in the first place. |
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Post by captainbryce on Aug 10, 2018 11:04:02 GMT
An interesting thing about JW's and unforgivable sin is the annointed who rule in heaven are a fixed number - 144,000. So what happens when one of them is disfellowshipped? Since the number must be maintained at 144,000 and that anointing is by holy spirit, once one is disfellowshipped there's no reason to think they get it back if there is a replacement chosen soon after. Because the ones who live on earth aren't in a demoted position, there's no reason to think that they would join their ranks. There are two possible answers to that: 1) Why would you assume any anointed people would be disfellowshipped? Logically, nobody who is disfellowshipped is among the anointed. 2) What difference would it make whether they were disfellowshipped or not? Just because a congregation rejects you doesn’t imply that you are not still anointed. |
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Aug 10, 2018 13:45:48 GMT
The unforgivable sin is sinning against the holy spirit...Basically rejecting God despite knowing they are true. It's a particular type of blasphemy of denying something you know to be true about God. Ones likely guilty of it are Judas & the religious leaders who plotted & succeeded in killing Jesus. That’s if you assume any of them truly believed in the first place. I suppose Judas could have been a spy from the get go, but there was no reason for Judas to be an apostle unless he did believe.
The religious leaders (As a group, but necessarily individually) had the responsibility as priests to be looking for the Messiah rather than outright rejecting it without any investigating and especially after seeing the effect his teachings had.
The "3 wise men" weren't even Jewish and they knew the time of the Messiah's arrival and yet the religious leaders didn't want to verify it even 30 years later and then, against Jewish law, conspired to have Jesus killed through bribery and political maneuvering.
I suppose the unforgiveable sin would not apply if all of them were secretly atheists or something. They would just stay dead for being wicked.
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Aug 10, 2018 13:49:25 GMT
An interesting thing about JW's and unforgivable sin is the annointed who rule in heaven are a fixed number - 144,000. So what happens when one of them is disfellowshipped? Since the number must be maintained at 144,000 and that anointing is by holy spirit, once one is disfellowshipped there's no reason to think they get it back if there is a replacement chosen soon after. Because the ones who live on earth aren't in a demoted position, there's no reason to think that they would join their ranks. There are two possible answers to that: 1) Why would you assume any anointed people would be disfellowshipped? Logically, nobody who is disfellowshipped is among the anointed. 2) What difference would it make whether they were disfellowshipped or not? Just because a congregation rejects you doesn’t imply that you are not still anointed. 1. Not true. There have been plenty of disfellowshipped anointed people including anyone in the 1st century given the boot since all of them would be anointed.
There is plenty of history regarding disputes in their organization that resulted in the dismissal of even some of their leaders.
2. Sure it does. Granted, a mistake may have been made, but if the mistake is compounded by the person not doing the things necessary to have God's favor, then there would be no reason to be rewarded with salvation. Bitterness and hurt feelings is not a valid excuse for rejecting God's requirements.
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Post by captainbryce on Aug 10, 2018 15:41:03 GMT
There are two possible answers to that: 1) Why would you assume any anointed people would be disfellowshipped? Logically, nobody who is disfellowshipped is among the anointed. 2) What difference would it make whether they were disfellowshipped or not? Just because a congregation rejects you doesn’t imply that you are not still anointed. 1. Not true. There have been plenty of disfellowshipped anointed people including anyone in the 1st century given the boot since all of them would be anointed.
There is plenty of history regarding disputes in their organization that resulted in the dismissal of even some of their leaders.
2. Sure it does. Granted, a mistake may have been made, but if the mistake is compounded by the person not doing the things necessary to have God's favor, then there would be no reason to be rewarded with salvation. Bitterness and hurt feelings is not a valid excuse for rejecting God's requirements.
You’re missing the point. How “people” (including your congregation) feels about you as a JW is irrelevant. What matters is how God feels about you. And if your God makes “mistakes”, then your entire religious system is flawed! The Bible says that God doesn’t change his mind. If he “anoints” people (which according to JWs they know in their hearts whether they are anointed from God), and then God takes it back, then he’s changing his mind which contradicts the bible and the teachings of the religion. |
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Aug 10, 2018 15:43:02 GMT
1. Not true. There have been plenty of disfellowshipped anointed people including anyone in the 1st century given the boot since all of them would be anointed.
There is plenty of history regarding disputes in their organization that resulted in the dismissal of even some of their leaders.
2. Sure it does. Granted, a mistake may have been made, but if the mistake is compounded by the person not doing the things necessary to have God's favor, then there would be no reason to be rewarded with salvation. Bitterness and hurt feelings is not a valid excuse for rejecting God's requirements.
You’re missing the point. How “people” (including your congregation) feels about you as a JW is irrelevant. What matters is how God feels about you. And if your God makes “mistakes”, then your entire religious system is flawed! The Bible says that God doesn’t change his mind. If he “anoints” people (which according to JWs they know in their hearts whether they are anointed from God), and then God takes it back, then he’s changing his mind which contradicts the bible and the teachings of the religion. That may be true but then that changes the subject since it is no longer a JW teaching. |
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