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Post by dazz on Aug 2, 2018 4:51:24 GMT
Then why didn't he kill Bruce?? Because, like in the comics, unbeknownst to Thomas Wayne, the robber's intent wasn't really to rob them but to kill Thomas Wayne to keep him from testifying against a mob boss. The gunman was told to make it look like a robbery and not kill Bruce so that Bruce could tell the cops it was a robbery gone bad. That's an assumption, also not always comic accurate, sometimes it's a hit made to look like a robbery gone wrong, sometimes by a mod boss sometimes by a pedo ring, sometimes it is just a mugging gone wrong though, and BVS nor JL iirc ever said if it was either of those things, so it's just an excuse your using to disquise the fact that in the DCEU yes I say DCEU fuck what DC says, in the DCEU Thomas Wayne was an agro mother fucker looking for a fight and got himself killed like an idiot.
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Post by RedDeadFallout on Aug 2, 2018 11:51:58 GMT
since when does getting shot make you an idiot? Jus standing there and letting a robber shoot you is idiotic. Not as idiotic as trying to punch a bullet, that's you level idiotic.
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Post by Vassaggo on Aug 2, 2018 15:45:12 GMT
Then why didn't he kill Bruce?? Because, like in the comics, unbeknownst to Thomas Wayne, the robber's intent wasn't really to rob them but to kill Thomas Wayne to keep him from testifying against a mob boss. The gunman was told to make it look like a robbery and not kill Bruce so that Bruce could tell the cops it was a robbery gone bad. Leaving a witness to a mob hit? That is a shitty hitman. So now to make up for the fact Snyder went for Agro Attacking Thomas because it looks better, the viewer has to do homework for it to make sense. Man leans over to his date in the theater... "You see honey this isn't a robbery, this is a hit by the mob. There is absolutely no supporting context in the movie though. You have to have read specific comics to know this. I say specific comicbooks, because in some it isn't a hit it's a robbery. Actually now that I think of it maybe this is a robbery because you see the man isn't wearing a mask. So Thomas is absolutely justified in attacking here. As they can see his face and identify him. So the robber has to kill them. No wait he leaves a witness. So yeah it's a mob hit, but damn he left a witness."
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Post by DC-Fan on Aug 2, 2018 16:07:50 GMT
Because, like in the comics, unbeknownst to Thomas Wayne, the robber's intent wasn't really to rob them but to kill Thomas Wayne to keep him from testifying against a mob boss. The gunman was told to make it look like a robbery and not kill Bruce so that Bruce could tell the cops it was a robbery gone bad. Leaving a witness to a mob hit? You don't seem to understand the point. Nobody knows it's a mob hit because the gunman is supposed to make it look like a robbery. That's why he gunman was told to not kill Bruce. So Bruce could tell the cops it was a robbery.
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Post by Vassaggo on Aug 2, 2018 16:51:19 GMT
Leaving a witness to a mob hit? You don't seem to understand the point. Nobody knows it's a mob hit because the gunman is supposed to make it look like a robbery. That's why he gunman was told to not kill Bruce. So Bruce could tell the cops it was a robbery. And so Bruce can identify the hitman too? And again how is the viewer supposed to know this? There is exactly the same amount of evidence and context in the movie that Alfred ordered a hit because he wanted to raise Bruce on his own.
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Post by RedDeadFallout on Aug 2, 2018 20:34:50 GMT
You don't seem to understand the point. Nobody knows it's a mob hit because the gunman is supposed to make it look like a robbery. That's why he gunman was told to not kill Bruce. So Bruce could tell the cops it was a robbery. And so Bruce can identify the hitman too? And again how is the viewer supposed to know this? There is exactly the same amount of evidence and context in the movie that Alfred ordered a hit because he wanted to raise Bruce on his own. Wait a minute are you saying you can make up any imaginary reason for something in a film?
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Post by DC-Fan on Aug 2, 2018 21:44:56 GMT
And so Bruce can identify the hitman too? And again how is the viewer supposed to know this? There is exactly the same amount of evidence and context in the movie that Alfred ordered a hit because he wanted to raise Bruce on his own. Wait a minute are you saying you can make up any imaginary reason for something in a film? It's not imaginary. That's what happened in the comics.
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Post by Vassaggo on Aug 2, 2018 22:15:10 GMT
Wait a minute are you saying you can make up any imaginary reason for something in a film? It's not imaginary. That's what happened in the comics. And in The Shining book Wendy wasn't a wet dish cloth of a woman, Danny was attacked by Wasps from a empty wasps nest, the bad room is 217, Dick Halloran didn't die, and there were Hedge Animals. If you just watched the movie (like most people with The Shinning and with comic book movies) Wendy is pretty useless, there were no wasps, the bad room is 237, Dick dies from a ax to the chest, and there was a hedge maze but no animals. See how books and movies are different mediums. If the writer of the movie needs you to read the book first he has failed completely as a movie writer.
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Post by RedDeadFallout on Aug 2, 2018 22:15:25 GMT
Wait a minute are you saying you can make up any imaginary reason for something in a film? It's not imaginary. That's what happened in the comics. The film is not in continuity with the comics, if it was only the comic readers would understand it.
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Post by Vassaggo on Aug 2, 2018 22:27:29 GMT
The thing is I don't have as much of a problem with BvS than most, but the Crime Alley Scene is indicative of the problems with BvS. It seems whenever Snyder had a choice for style over substance he chose to make something look cool rather then make a scene mean something.
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Post by DC-Fan on Aug 2, 2018 23:19:38 GMT
It's not imaginary. That's what happened in the comics. And in The Shining book Wendy wasn't a wet dish cloth of a woman, Danny was attacked by Wasps from a empty wasps nest, the bad room is 217, Dick Halloran didn't die, and there were Hedge Animals. If you just watched the movie (like most people with The Shinning and with comic book movies) Wendy is pretty useless, there were no wasps, the bad room is 237, Dick dies from a ax to the chest, and there was a hedge maze but no animals. See how books and movies are different mediums. If the writer of the movie needs you to read the book first he has failed completely as a movie writer. So basically SMH failed since it never showed Peter getting bitten by a spider and Uncle Ben being killed by a robber whom Peter could've stopped but didn't. But that was all in the comics so movie watches can read the comic to get that information, right?
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Post by DC-Fan on Aug 2, 2018 23:20:50 GMT
It's not imaginary. That's what happened in the comics. The film is not in continuity with the comics, if it was only the comic readers would understand it. So basically, audiences who watched SMH wouldn't understand that Peter got his powers by being bitten by a spider and Uncle Ben was killed by a robber whom peter could've stopped but didn't, right?
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Surly
Sophomore
@surly
Posts: 913
Likes: 784
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Post by Surly on Aug 2, 2018 23:25:28 GMT
They don’t have a Jonathon Kent or Thomas Wayne or Henry Allen. The only fathers they have are criminals like Scott Lang who TEACHES HIS DAUGHTER HOW TO COMMIT HEISTS! You are on slippery slope here, pal. I guess you forgot about "Uncle Ben" Parker. And DCEU fathers don't have a good track record either. The Flash's father: a convicted felon who sat in prison rather than raising his son. Batman's father: was murdered by gunfire. Not his fault but you would think that a guy that rich would hire a bodyguard. Superman's adoptive father: encouraged him to abandon a school bus full of dying children. Superman's birth father: shirked his responsibilities. Instead of building a craft that would save him, his wife, and his son he dropped his son off on the doorstep of an alien world.
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Post by Vassaggo on Aug 2, 2018 23:54:43 GMT
And in The Shining book Wendy wasn't a wet dish cloth of a woman, Danny was attacked by Wasps from a empty wasps nest, the bad room is 217, Dick Halloran didn't die, and there were Hedge Animals. If you just watched the movie (like most people with The Shinning and with comic book movies) Wendy is pretty useless, there were no wasps, the bad room is 237, Dick dies from a ax to the chest, and there was a hedge maze but no animals. See how books and movies are different mediums. If the writer of the movie needs you to read the book first he has failed completely as a movie writer. So basically SMH failed since it never showed Peter getting bitten by a spider and Uncle Ben being killed by a robber whom Peter could've stopped but didn't. But that was all in the comics so movie watches can read the comic to get that information, right? None of that effected the plot of the movie or any scene in the movie. You don't need to know where Peter got his powers to understand the movie or any particular scene. You don't need to know the genesis of his motivation to help people. The information is not needed. In the scene we were talking about what is shown is a man holding a gun at a couple and their son. There is no motivation provided for this act. You are left to assume it's a robbery, a mob hit, a disagreement over the plot of the movie they just watched, they walked up on a crack deal going on, etc. Then we are shown instead of Thomas complying (or even more heroic if you want him covering his family as a shield as he implores them to run) he charges the guy with the gun. Your idea that muggers wear masks and if they don't they kill is you trying to explain why someone would charge a guy who is standing a good distance away. (I hope you know police offer the exact opposite advice when being mugged masked or not). When this was pointed out you changed tact and went with it was a hit in the comics so it justifies Thomas charging as he was going to die anyways. There is nothing in Homecoming you have to justify with the knowledge of his spider bite or Ben dying.
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Post by DC-Fan on Aug 2, 2018 23:58:26 GMT
So basically SMH failed since it never showed Peter getting bitten by a spider and Uncle Ben being killed by a robber whom Peter could've stopped but didn't. But that was all in the comics so movie watches can read the comic to get that information, right? None of that effected the plot of the movie or any scene in the movie. You don't need to know where Peter got his powers to understand the movie or any particular scene. You don't need to know the genesis of his motivation to help people. The information is not needed. In the scene we were talking about what is shown is a man holding a gun at a couple and their son. There is no motivation provided for this act. You are left to assume it's a robbery, a mob hit, a disagreement over the plot of the movie they just watched, they walked up on a crack deal going on, etc. Then we are shown instead of Thomas complying (or even more heroic if you want him covering his family as a shield as he implores them to run) he charges the guy with the gun. Your idea that muggers wear masks and if they don't they kill is you trying to explain why someone would charge a guy who is standing a good distance away. (I hope you know police offer the exact opposite advice when being mugged masked or not). When this was pointed out you changed tact and went with it was a hit in the comics so it justifies Thomas charging as he was going to die anyways. There is nothing in Homecoming you have to justify with the knowledge of his spider bite or Ben dying. Uncle Ben getting murdered is as important to the Spider-Man mythos as Thomas and Martha Wayne getting murdered is to the Batman mythos. Uncle Ben getting murdered by a robber whom Peter could've stopped but didn't is the reason Spider-Man became a hero. SMH skipped over that and instead presented Peter's motivation for being a hero as nothing more than just wanting to impress Tony Stark. As for claims by MCU fans that Peter declined to be an Avenger because he wanted to stay and help his community, Peter didn't give a shit about his community. If Peter actually cared about his community, then Peter would've have stolen from his community like he did in SMH.
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Post by Vassaggo on Aug 3, 2018 0:14:09 GMT
Things you don't need to know in comic book movies that are explained in comics.
How Spiderman got his powers. How Lois Lane became a world renowned reporter. How the Joker became the Joker (see The Dark Knight). How Green Lantern's rings actually produce constructs. How Lex Luthor made his money and where he was schooled.
It's just not needed. Now if it were needed to explain a plot point in a movie and you didn't explain that's when you run into failure.
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Post by Vassaggo on Aug 3, 2018 0:17:33 GMT
None of that effected the plot of the movie or any scene in the movie. You don't need to know where Peter got his powers to understand the movie or any particular scene. You don't need to know the genesis of his motivation to help people. The information is not needed. In the scene we were talking about what is shown is a man holding a gun at a couple and their son. There is no motivation provided for this act. You are left to assume it's a robbery, a mob hit, a disagreement over the plot of the movie they just watched, they walked up on a crack deal going on, etc. Then we are shown instead of Thomas complying (or even more heroic if you want him covering his family as a shield as he implores them to run) he charges the guy with the gun. Your idea that muggers wear masks and if they don't they kill is you trying to explain why someone would charge a guy who is standing a good distance away. (I hope you know police offer the exact opposite advice when being mugged masked or not). When this was pointed out you changed tact and went with it was a hit in the comics so it justifies Thomas charging as he was going to die anyways. There is nothing in Homecoming you have to justify with the knowledge of his spider bite or Ben dying. Uncle Ben getting murdered is as important to the Spider-Man mythos as Thomas and Martha Wayne getting murdered is to the Batman mythos. Uncle Ben getting murdered by a robber whom Peter could've stopped but didn't is the reason Spider-Man became a hero. SMH skipped over that and instead presented Peter's motivation for being a hero as nothing more than just wanting to impress Tony Stark. As for claims by MCU fans that Peter declined to be an Avenger because he wanted to stay and help his community, Peter didn't give a shit about his community. If Peter actually cared about his community, then Peter would've have stolen from his community like he did in SMH. Ok now you are getting to a more defendable point. Being part of his mythos isn't the same as making a logical movie. You are right. Uncle Ben dying is a huge part of Spiderman's mythos. Removing that it does diminish his mythos in the movie. It doesn't effect the actual craft of storytelling though.
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Post by Vassaggo on Aug 3, 2018 0:22:31 GMT
None of that effected the plot of the movie or any scene in the movie. You don't need to know where Peter got his powers to understand the movie or any particular scene. You don't need to know the genesis of his motivation to help people. The information is not needed. In the scene we were talking about what is shown is a man holding a gun at a couple and their son. There is no motivation provided for this act. You are left to assume it's a robbery, a mob hit, a disagreement over the plot of the movie they just watched, they walked up on a crack deal going on, etc. Then we are shown instead of Thomas complying (or even more heroic if you want him covering his family as a shield as he implores them to run) he charges the guy with the gun. Your idea that muggers wear masks and if they don't they kill is you trying to explain why someone would charge a guy who is standing a good distance away. (I hope you know police offer the exact opposite advice when being mugged masked or not). When this was pointed out you changed tact and went with it was a hit in the comics so it justifies Thomas charging as he was going to die anyways. There is nothing in Homecoming you have to justify with the knowledge of his spider bite or Ben dying. Uncle Ben getting murdered is as important to the Spider-Man mythos as Thomas and Martha Wayne getting murdered is to the Batman mythos. Uncle Ben getting murdered by a robber whom Peter could've stopped but didn't is the reason Spider-Man became a hero. SMH skipped over that and instead presented Peter's motivation for being a hero as nothing more than just wanting to impress Tony Stark. As for claims by MCU fans that Peter declined to be an Avenger because he wanted to stay and help his community, Peter didn't give a shit about his community. If Peter actually cared about his community, then Peter would've have stolen from his community like he did in SMH. It's been a while since I last saw SMH are you equating stealing Flash's Car as not wanting to help his community? If that's the case then that's pretty thin and petty on your part.
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Post by DC-Fan on Aug 3, 2018 1:32:49 GMT
Uncle Ben getting murdered is as important to the Spider-Man mythos as Thomas and Martha Wayne getting murdered is to the Batman mythos. Uncle Ben getting murdered by a robber whom Peter could've stopped but didn't is the reason Spider-Man became a hero. SMH skipped over that and instead presented Peter's motivation for being a hero as nothing more than just wanting to impress Tony Stark. As for claims by MCU fans that Peter declined to be an Avenger because he wanted to stay and help his community, Peter didn't give a shit about his community. If Peter actually cared about his community, then Peter would've have stolen from his community like he did in SMH. It's been a while since I last saw SMH are you equating stealing Flash's Car as not wanting to help his community? If that's the case then that's pretty thin and petty on your part. No, I actually forgot that Peter also stole Flash's car. But I'm referring to Pwter stealing from his community.
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Post by Vassaggo on Aug 3, 2018 1:37:20 GMT
It's been a while since I last saw SMH are you equating stealing Flash's Car as not wanting to help his community? If that's the case then that's pretty thin and petty on your part. No, I actually forgot that Peter also stole Flash's car. But I'm referring to Pwter stealing from his community. Drawing a blank here? Dumpster diving? that was Civil War. I really am drawing a blank here.
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