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Post by Rodney Farber on Aug 7, 2018 12:52:15 GMT
Why do Jehovah’s Witnesses lie?
Everyone can believe what they want. I don’t care. However, when one injects their beliefs into my path without any request on my part, I inject my beliefs into their path. I do so with a vengeance.
Yesterday, I was walking along when I passed a JW pair with their washboard of BS. One JW interrupted my path and asked if I would like to read some “good news”. So I asked them why they were there. “We give good news about God”. Well, that’s lie #1 as their primary purpose is to brainwash weak-minded people to join their cult of other weak-minded people so the elders can control their actions.
Lie #2 is that they said that their standing on the street corner is voluntary. “We do it because we want to”. In a literal sense, that’s true. However, the elders have put the fear-of-God into them. They have quotas and they must keep a log of their proselytizing hours. If they don’t fulfill their monthly quota, they will be shamed, ostracized, and eventually dis-fellowshipped.
So I asked them “If I joined your church, would it be OK for me to go to my nephew’s wedding if it were held in a Catholic church?” Again, they said it was a personal decision. That’s another lie, because the church elders have decreed that entering another house of worship carries the same burn-in-Hell dis-fellowshipping. In one particular case, a woman was forbidden to attend a Weight-Watchers meeting because the meeting was held in a church.
They then said that if all I was going to do was to nit-pick their religion, I should leave. So I did. So, if your religion (any religion) can’t address scrutiny, please don’t bother me as I walk down the street.
My belief is that JWs are a cult, a cult that will lie, deceive, and sweet-talk you into joining them. After you join, they put the thumbscrews on, but it’s too late. In fairness to JWs, all cults lie to get you hooked, not just JWs.
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Aug 7, 2018 12:55:18 GMT
Lol Suuuuure this happened.  |
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Post by lowtacks86 on Aug 7, 2018 13:19:55 GMT
Well that is rather part of their brainwashing and maintaining their numbers, forbid any outside influence from outside churches, even something as innocous as playing bingo at an methodist church.
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Post by Rodney Farber on Aug 7, 2018 13:38:22 GMT
If one wanted to know the “secret” world of JW’s, all they would need to do is go to their website. Their website is just one more pack of white-washed drivel and lies. The elders meetings are not transparent and they have all sorts of secret, internal documents that are not to be disseminated to the general public. I really would like a JW to answer this questions: - If JW is the one and only true religion, why is it necessary to proselytize? If JW is the greatest thing since sliced bread, one would think that the world would beat a path to your door.
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Aug 7, 2018 14:23:20 GMT
If one wanted to know the “secret” world of JW’s, all they would need to do is go to their website. Their website is just one more pack of white-washed drivel and lies. The elders meetings are not transparent and they have all sorts of secret, internal documents that are not to be disseminated to the general public. So instead of going to their website, reading their literature, or speaking to them, it is better to under JW;s by your screenplay of an imaginary encounter with them?
In short, why would I believe you over what they state?
Proselytizing is integral to Christianity. They may do it a different way but it's legit to doctrine.
Ignore their literature as you are already doing and pick up a Bible sometime.
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Post by drystyx on Aug 7, 2018 16:14:30 GMT
Lying is not only the "American Way", but "false accusations" and "false testimony" are the two mottos of Western fundamentalist new age religion. It's always been here, because the demon was always here, but the demon took a big step forward to control America in the sixties hate movement (falsely labeled as "peace").
Too bad. There were some good ideas, but they were murdered with the good guys like King Jr., to keep the demons in control of America. For proof, I give you Donald Duck Trump.
I rest my (proven) case.
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Post by captainbryce on Aug 7, 2018 18:34:20 GMT
Why do Jehovah’s Witnesses lie? Everyone can believe what they want. I don’t care. However, when one injects their beliefs into my path without any request on my part, I inject my beliefs into their path. I do so with a vengeance. Yesterday, I was walking along when I passed a JW pair with their washboard of BS. One JW interrupted my path and asked if I would like to read some “good news”. So I asked them why they were there. “We give good news about God”. Well, that’s lie #1 as their primary purpose is to brainwash weak-minded people to join their cult of other weak-minded people so the elders can control their actions. To what end? Remember, the difference between the truth and a fringe conspiracy theory is that the truth can always be traced to a logical conclusion, and a fringe conspiracy theory always stops short of answering the question of WHY? It is entirely possible (and more than likely) that this is merely a false dichotomy, and that other answers exist. Such as, the JWs are giving you the “good news” (as they perceive it), which just so happens to be something THEY are brainwashed to believe through social indoctrination (like every other religion). So technically, it’s not a “lie”, it just happens to be wrong. Well then you have just literally contradicted your own point! How do you know this? Have you ever been told this by a practicing JW before? Is this codified anywhere in their official doctrine? And just assuming you are correct (at face value), again...to what end? Why would this be a doctrine of theirs? Well first of all, JWs don’t believe in “hell”, so you are factually incorrect on that point. On the second point, where are you getting your information from? Where is this codified in their doctrine? I’m skeptical that the experience you described here actually happened the way you described it (if at all). Most of your story sounds made up of I’m being honest. You could of course be more convincing by divulging some of the details I inquired about before. The difference between a cult and a religion is size and semantics. In that, what they do seems not unlike what any other Christian based church does. Especially those who believe in “evangelizing”. |
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Post by Rodney Farber on Aug 10, 2018 17:16:31 GMT
Their website is just one more pack of white-washed drivel and lies. The elders meetings are not transparent and they have all sorts of secret, internal documents that are not to be disseminated to the general public. So instead of going to their website, reading their literature, or speaking to them, it is better to under JW;s by your screenplay of an imaginary encounter with them? Since you are calling me a liar, perhaps I should present some evidence. I frequently pass through a certain subway station most evenings around 6pm. If I get there before 6pm, I usually notice two pair of JWs standing with their literature. They usually do not bother me. If I get there after 6pm, they are gone. While they claim that proselytizing is something that they ”want” to do, I interpret the precise timing of their departure as a sign that they have been directed to stay there until 6pm. When their obligation is over, they leave faster than 5th graders when school is over. I took two photographs: one at 5:59pm and the other at 6:01. The only reason for taking and posting these photographs is because you and captainbryce both called me a liar.   According to a JW website, there is one JW for every 263 Americans, about 0.4%. According to another web site, over 50% of Americans are Christian. This means that there are at least 125 other Christians for every JW. I’ve never seen a Baptists handing out propaganda in the subway station? Catholics never interrupt my Sunday afternoon nap. Yes, it’s “legit” to doctrine, but why is it necessary. If JW is the greatest thing since sliced bread, why don’t the masses beat a path to Kingdom Hall without your cajoling? And why do people leave the JW cult? If JW is the ONE TRUE religion, why didn’t it start until the 19th century? One would think that Jehovah would have revealed himself to someone thousands of years ago to help them write the scriptures? Why do your scripture keep changing? If they are subject to change, how do I know what you say today is true because the elders might change the Bible next year? Jehovah doesn’t change. Why do you? Let me show you some passages from your New World Translation that reflect just how loving Jehovah can be. How about 2 Kings 2:23-24 - Boys mock a bald man, so Jehovah sent two she-bears to tear 42 boys to pieces. I guess Jehovah didn’t think it was funny. What about Genesis 38:7 – “ But Er, Judah’s firstborn, was displeasing to Jehovah; so Jehovah put him to death.” So much for Thou-shalt-not-kill. What about the New Testament, Acts 5: 1-11. Ananias and his wife, Sapphira, embezzled some money they were holding. Then Jehovah killed them to create fear and obedience in the congregation. Isn’t this why General Tarkin destroyed Alderaan in Star Wars? And of course there is the great flood where Jehovah killed millions of people just because Jehovah didn’t like the way they turned out. Jehovah created them. Jehovah should have created them to kiss his a** just like you do. ===== ===== ===== ===== ===== ===== ===== ===== ===== ===== ===== ===== Well then you have just literally contradicted your own point! They want to for the same reason I want to stop at red lights: Fear of the consequences. To say that they want to just demonstrates their ability to deceive. The title of this thread answers the first two questions. The last two questions are answered in "PAY ATTENTION TO YOURSELVES AND TO ALL THE FLOCK", a JW internal memorandum which can be found online. I assume it has not changed since 1991. My bad on that. Without Hell hanging over me, then it’s OK to rape, pillage, and have sex with children until my doctor tells me I have six months to live. I can then join the JW church and be saved. Is that correct? You have your definition, I have my own. A major characteristic that I use that a cult strongly discourages or forbids social interaction with non-members of the group. |
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Aug 10, 2018 17:28:05 GMT
So instead of going to their website, reading their literature, or speaking to them, it is better to under JW;s by your screenplay of an imaginary encounter with them? Since you are calling me a liar, perhaps I should present some evidence. I frequently pass through a certain subway station most evenings around 6pm. If I get there before 6pm, I usually notice two pair of JWs standing with their literature. They usually do not bother me. If I get there after 6pm, they are gone. While they claim that proselytizing is something that they ”want” to do, I interpret the precise timing of their departure as a sign that they have been directed to stay there until 6pm. When their obligation is over, they leave faster than 5th graders when school is over. I took two photographs: one at 5:59pm and the other at 6:01. The only reason for taking and posting these photographs is because you and captainbryce both called me a liar. According to a JW website, there is one JW for every 263 Americans, about 0.4%. According to another web site, over 50% of Americans are Christian. This means that there are at least 125 other Christians for every JW. I’ve never seen a Baptists handing out propaganda in the subway station? Catholics never interrupt my Sunday afternoon nap. Yes, it’s “legit” to doctrine, but why is it necessary. If JW is the greatest thing since sliced bread, why don’t the masses beat a path to Kingdom Hall without your cajoling? And why do people leave the JW cult? If JW is the ONE TRUE religion, why didn’t it start until the 19th century? One would think that Jehovah would have revealed himself to someone thousands of years ago to help them write the scriptures? Why do your scripture keep changing? If they are subject to change, how do I know what you say today is true because the elders might change the Bible next year? Jehovah doesn’t change. Why do you? Let me show you some passages from your New World Translation that reflect just how loving Jehovah can be. How about 2 Kings 2:23-24 - Boys mock a bald man, so Jehovah sent two she-bears to tear 42 boys to pieces. I guess Jehovah didn’t think it was funny. What about Genesis 38:7 – “ But Er, Judah’s firstborn, was displeasing to Jehovah; so Jehovah put him to death.” So much for Thou-shalt-not-kill. What about the New Testament, Acts 5: 1-11. Ananias and his wife, Sapphira, embezzled some money they were holding. Then Jehovah killed them to create fear and obedience in the congregation. Isn’t this why General Tarkin destroyed Alderaan in Star Wars? And of course there is the great flood where Jehovah killed millions of people just because Jehovah didn’t like the way they turned out. Jehovah created them. Jehovah should have created them to kiss his a** just like you do. ===== ===== ===== ===== ===== ===== ===== ===== ===== ===== ===== ===== Well then you have just literally contradicted your own point! They want to for the same reason I want to stop at red lights: Fear of the consequences. To say that they want to just demonstrates their ability to deceive. The title of this thread answers the first two questions. The last two questions are answered in "PAY ATTENTION TO YOURSELVES AND TO ALL THE FLOCK", a JW internal memorandum which can be found online. I assume it has not changed since 1991. My bad on that. Without Hell hanging over me, then it’s OK to rape, pillage, and have sex with children until my doctor tells me I have six months to live. I can then join the JW church and be saved. Is that correct? You have your definition, I have my own. A major characteristic that I use that a cult strongly discourages or forbids social interaction with non-members of the group. I'll read this later, but I have no idea why you think pictures of JW's constitute verification of your story.
I am well aware that the preach in public.
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Post by Isapop on Aug 10, 2018 18:00:20 GMT
You know, Rodney Farber , your criticisms of the Watchtower are so sloppily formulated and so easily parried that a conspiracy minded person might suspect that you are actually SHILLING for JWs in the guise of bashing them. |
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Post by politicidal on Aug 11, 2018 0:03:43 GMT
Leave the proselytizers alone.
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Post by The Herald Erjen on Aug 11, 2018 2:34:56 GMT
The JW that I used to talk with told me arbitrarily that there is no hell.
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Post by captainbryce on Aug 11, 2018 3:24:40 GMT
The JW that I used to talk with told me arbitrarily that there is no hell. Even a broken clock is right twice a day! |
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Post by Aj_June on Aug 11, 2018 11:20:41 GMT
The JW that I used to talk with told me arbitrarily that there is no hell. It is their interpretation although not many (if any major sect) had made such an interpretation for the first 19 centuries of Christianity. |
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Post by The Herald Erjen on Aug 11, 2018 11:37:28 GMT
The JW that I used to talk with told me arbitrarily that there is no hell. It is their interpretation although not many (if any major sect) had made such an interpretation for the first 19 centuries of Christianity. Yes. I told him that I had seen hell myself, and so I know it is real. I've seen things that would probably make Dog the Bounty Hunter crap his pants from fear. I can only testify, and my testimony is there for anyone to accept or reject. Several other religions besides Christianity have a hell equivalent. I think of it as a toxic waste dump in the spiritual sense. |
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Post by rachelcarson1953 on Aug 11, 2018 14:19:36 GMT
So, Erjen claims that it is his personal testimony that he has seen hell so he knows that it is real.
Watching it on a youtube video doesn't make it real.
I heard a lot of personal testimonies growing up in an evangelical church, and one person's claim, without observable evidence, does not equal fact. It has more to do with the attention the claimant receives after his revelation.
Could you have seen it in a dream after watching a post-apocalyptic movie while drinking alcohol? Were you taking hallucinogenic drugs? Were you running a high fever? Were you having a psychotic break?
Personal testimony is the least reliable form of evidence in the legal world; DNA evidence is far more accurate, as are fingerprints, camera footage, and a host of other observable, testable and repeatable evidence.
Believe whatever you like, Erj; doesn't make it proof.
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Post by Arlon10 on Aug 11, 2018 14:39:29 GMT
So, Erjen claims that it is his personal testimony that he has seen hell so he knows that it is real. Watching it on a youtube video doesn't make it real. I heard a lot of personal testimonies growing up in an evangelical church, and one person's claim, without observable evidence, does not equal fact. It has more to do with the attention the claimant receives after his revelation. Could you have seen it in a dream after watching a post-apocalyptic movie while drinking alcohol? Were you taking hallucinogenic drugs? Were you running a high fever? Were you having a psychotic break? Personal testimony is the least reliable form of evidence in the legal world; DNA evidence is far more accurate, as are fingerprints, camera footage, and a host of other observable, testable and repeatable evidence. Believe whatever you like, Erj; doesn't make it proof. That would mean a lot more if any atheists here were any good at science. Which ones are? |
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Post by The Herald Erjen on Aug 11, 2018 18:48:28 GMT
So, Erjen claims that it is his personal testimony that he has seen hell so he knows that it is real. Watching it on a youtube video doesn't make it real. I heard a lot of personal testimonies growing up in an evangelical church, and one person's claim, without observable evidence, does not equal fact. It has more to do with the attention the claimant receives after his revelation. Could you have seen it in a dream after watching a post-apocalyptic movie while drinking alcohol? Were you taking hallucinogenic drugs? Were you running a high fever? Were you having a psychotic break? Personal testimony is the least reliable form of evidence in the legal world; DNA evidence is far more accurate, as are fingerprints, camera footage, and a host of other observable, testable and repeatable evidence. Believe whatever you like, Erj; doesn't make it proof. I never said it was proof. I said it was testimony. I also said everyone is free to take it or leave it.  EDIT -- And yes, I was running a high fever. |
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Post by lowtacks86 on Aug 11, 2018 19:00:26 GMT
The JW that I used to talk with told me arbitrarily that there is no hell. They actually believe in quite a few things that stray from mainstream Christianity. They believe it was more likely Jesus was nailed to a stake rather than a cross and reject infant baptisms (it has to be done as consenting adult). |
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Post by The Herald Erjen on Aug 11, 2018 19:08:34 GMT
The JW that I used to talk with told me arbitrarily that there is no hell. They actually believe in quite a few things that stray from mainstream Christianity. They believe it was more likely Jesus was nailed to a stake rather than a cross and reject infant baptisms (it has to be done as consenting adult). Thanks. My father told me the one about the stake. Toward the end of his life he had a succession of housekeepers, all of them Jehovah's Witnesses. Now I know where that one came from. I did not know the one about the adult baptism until now. The most surprising of their beliefs to me is that that most people (including themselves) are not going to heaven. We'll just have to wait and see if they're right about that. I'd like to at least see heaven and decide if I like it. I've already seen hell, and I didn't like it. |
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