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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Aug 14, 2018 17:05:04 GMT
Actually they are abiding by the law. You've missed the point of the thread brainiac... Yes they currently have an exemption from the law that everyone else has to live by, to flout it in the name of an imaginary sky man... I'm arguing they shouldn't have. Everyone should be equal under the law. I know what you were doing, it's just that what you are saying is not what they are doing. |
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Post by Cody™ on Aug 14, 2018 17:21:58 GMT
It breaks our animal welfare laws. We should also make illegal Jewish male genital mutilation. It's child abuse. Don’t know why you’re singling out the jews when Muslims have the same problems(dietary laws&genital mutilation) to a far greater degree here in the U.K. Are you afraid of being seen as an ‘islamophope’, Dougal? Is that it? |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2018 17:32:30 GMT
It breaks our animal welfare laws. We should also make illegal Jewish male genital mutilation. It's child abuse. Don’t know why you’re singling out the jews when Muslims have the same problems(dietary laws&genital mutilation) to a far greater degree here in the U.K. Are you afraid of being seen as an ‘islamophope’, Dougal? Is that it? This thread isn't about your prejudices. Please stay on topic. The question is, should Jews be allowed to flout UK animal and child welfare laws because they believe some pre-pottery neolithic/bronze age levantine mythology? It's a big no from me. |
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Post by Cody™ on Aug 14, 2018 17:55:30 GMT
Don’t know why you’re singling out the jews when Muslims have the same problems(dietary laws&genital mutilation) to a far greater degree here in the U.K. Are you afraid of being seen as an ‘islamophope’, Dougal? Is that it? This thread isn't about your prejudices. Please stay on topic. The question is, should Jews be allowed to flout UK animal and child welfare laws because they believe some pre-pottery neolithic/bronze age levantine mythology? It's a big no from me.  You little lefist pussy... |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2018 21:04:35 GMT
It breaks our animal welfare laws. We should also make illegal Jewish male genital mutilation. It's child abuse. What about halal meat, Dougal?  Halal meat can come from pre-stunned animals, but from recollection, kosher meat must come from animals that have not been pre-stunned. |
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Post by phludowin on Aug 14, 2018 21:32:14 GMT
What about halal meat, Dougal? Wrong thread, this is about Jews and their allowed law breaking... Please stay on topic. But he has a point. Halal is as much animal abuse as kosher. In my opinion both should be banned. As well as forced genital mutilation. EDIT: This applies to halal meat from animals that weren't stunned before slaughter.
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Post by 🌵 on Aug 14, 2018 21:45:10 GMT
I agree that infant circumcision should be outlawed. It's incredible that there's even still a debate about this. If your dumbass religion demands that you cut off part of your genitals, you can do it when you're an adult if you so choose.
I don't care about animal welfare laws though.
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Post by OpiateOfTheMasses on Aug 14, 2018 21:49:38 GMT
When I was a student I used to have a summer job working in an abattoir/meet packing place near where my parents lived. And they had a imam working there who would bless all the animals all day every day as they were being slaughtered. And they would stun all the animals and process them humanely and do all the standard stuff you'd expect too. The only reason the imam was there was so that further down the line when they were packing them up they could seemlessly switch from packing an order up with Tesco Finest labels to Halal labels without missing a heartbeat - because it's all exactly the same stuff - just by giving the packers different labels.
So Halal - I don't have a problem with. If people are stupid enough to pay extra for the privilege of having some talking whilst their lunch was being killed, more the fool them.
But mutilating children for religious purposes is wrong. There's no good way to spin that. If it make you feel closer to God to cut bits off yourself then it'll presumably make you feel really close to God to choose to cut bits off yourself as a consenting adult. Wait to do it to yourself when you're 18. Don't do it to a defenceless child.
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Post by Arlon10 on Aug 14, 2018 23:03:39 GMT
If it breaks animal welfare laws now, then how is it possible to sell kosher food already? How does it break animal welfare laws anyway? All animals must be rendered unconscious before slaughter. Saying a shitty prayer doesn't count. The Jews get a free pass because the government doesn't want to upset them. "Rendered unconscious"? How? |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2018 23:10:41 GMT
Food companies ought to be incentivised to develop vegan alternatives to meat and dairy, with a view to phasing out meat and dairy altogether, in my view. Kosher is particularly egregious, given that meat from pre-stunned animals cannot be kosher. If Jews can't find some kind of a loophole where the animals can be stunned before slaughter, then they can do without meat.
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Post by Arlon10 on Aug 14, 2018 23:20:43 GMT
Food companies ought to be incentivised to develop vegan alternatives to meat and dairy, with a view to phasing out meat and dairy altogether, in my view. Kosher is particularly egregious, given that meat from pre-stunned animals cannot be kosher. If Jews can't find some kind of a loophole where the animals can be stunned before slaughter, then they can do without meat. "Pre-stunned"? Exactly what does that mean? |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 15, 2018 0:04:06 GMT
Food companies ought to be incentivised to develop vegan alternatives to meat and dairy, with a view to phasing out meat and dairy altogether, in my view. Kosher is particularly egregious, given that meat from pre-stunned animals cannot be kosher. If Jews can't find some kind of a loophole where the animals can be stunned before slaughter, then they can do without meat. "Pre-stunned"? Exactly what does that mean? Stunned before killing. Perhaps I'm using the wrong terminology. |
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Post by Arlon10 on Aug 15, 2018 0:17:06 GMT
"Pre-stunned"? Exactly what does that mean? Stunned before killing. Perhaps I'm using the wrong terminology. I'm not seeing how that is any more humane than kosher methods. |
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Post by rachelcarson1953 on Aug 15, 2018 0:27:32 GMT
When I was a student I used to have a summer job working in an abattoir/meet packing place near where my parents lived. And they had a imam working there who would bless all the animals all day every day as they were being slaughtered. And they would stun all the animals and process them humanely and do all the standard stuff you'd expect too. The only reason the imam was there was so that further down the line when they were packing them up they could seemlessly switch from packing an order up with Tesco Finest labels to Halal labels without missing a heartbeat - because it's all exactly the same stuff - just by giving the packers different labels. So Halal - I don't have a problem with. If people are stupid enough to pay extra for the privilege of having some talking whilst their lunch was being killed, more the fool them. But mutilating children for religious purposes is wrong. There's no good way to spin that. If it make you feel closer to God to cut bits off yourself then it'll presumably make you feel really close to God to choose to cut bits off yourself as a consenting adult. Wait to do it to yourself when you're 18. Don't do it to a defenceless child. I could not have done that job if my life depended on it. Just go ahead, stun me and kill me, too. Agree totally on mutilating children, too. |
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Post by rachelcarson1953 on Aug 15, 2018 0:48:38 GMT
Arlon10, if you knew someone was going to cut your throat, would you rather be conscious or unconscious? How about an amputation with no anesthesia? Starting to empathize yet?
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Post by Arlon10 on Aug 15, 2018 1:13:24 GMT
Arlon10 , if you knew someone was going to cut your throat, would you rather be conscious or unconscious? How about an amputation with no anesthesia? Starting to empathize yet? I had the impression the neck was broken soon enough in the process to avoid prolonged discomfort. Just cutting the "throat" could be unnecessarily agonizing and gruesome for all present I suppose. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 15, 2018 4:36:16 GMT
Stunned before killing. Perhaps I'm using the wrong terminology. I'm not seeing how that is any more humane than kosher methods. Because it minimises the subjective feeling of harm to the animal. Although the animal's life and the way that it has been treated up to that point is still very harmful to it. |
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Post by Arlon10 on Aug 15, 2018 10:11:57 GMT
I'm not seeing how that is any more humane than kosher methods. Because it minimises the subjective feeling of harm to the animal. Although the animal's life and the way that it has been treated up to that point is still very harmful to it. I also had the impression cutting a carotid artery was a preferred method of suicide, faster and less painful than wrist slashing. Perhaps it's obvious I am no expert on killing. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 15, 2018 10:24:02 GMT
It breaks our animal welfare laws. We should also make illegal Jewish male genital mutilation. It's child abuse. Couldn't agree more on either point. And Halal too, yes. |
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Aug 15, 2018 10:35:51 GMT
Arlon10 , if you knew someone was going to cut your throat, would you rather be conscious or unconscious? How about an amputation with no anesthesia? Starting to empathize yet? Those aren't really equivalent analogies. There are very few creatures out there that have the luxury of not worrying about their death or even feeling it in horrible fashion. Billions upon billions of animals have been slaughtered by throat cutting. All modes of death are sucky for the animal, but that's one of the better ways throughout history (It beats being choked to death by a lion while other lions start eating you butt first...). It's silly to call it inhumane now although I'm all for making things easier on the food I eat. In the grand scheme of things, it's not that important. As an aside, I'm indifferent to circumcision too but it's not worth having discussions about anymore. They become blubbering emotional rants. |
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