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Post by Cody™ on Aug 26, 2018 22:43:37 GMT
lowtacks86 The counterargument is that people will panic over a loved one and a complete stranger being in danger. The FMRI can show the degree to which you panic but this does not categorically prove love. Just as panicking more for a dog being in danger over a chicken cannot categorically prove that you love dogs over chickens.
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Post by lowtacks86 on Aug 26, 2018 22:49:54 GMT
lowtacks86 The counterargument is that people will panic over a loved one and a complete stranger being in danger. The FMRI can show the degree to which you panic but this does not categorically prove love. Just as panicking more over a dog being in danger over a chicken does cannot categorically prove that you love dogs over chickens. "The counterargument is that people will panic over a loved one and a complete stranger being in danger."
I'm sorry but that's not necessarily true. Right now I'm sure there's a child in Africa dying from starvation or could wind up in a child militia where there's a good chance he will die. Oh what's that? You're not panicking?
"The FMRI can show the degree to which you panic but this does not categorically prove love."
Again I would argue it does for the reasons I've already given, but it really doesn't matter since FMRI scans can show "love" as well (I noticed you didn't respond to the "love" videos I posted).
"Just as panicking more over a dog being in danger over a chicken does cannot categorically prove that you love dogs over chickens."
Actually most humans do "love" dogs more than chickens as is evident by the fact that humans are more likely to keep dogs as pets and the latter is more likely to be a meal (depending on which part of the world at least)
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Post by Cody™ on Aug 26, 2018 23:13:59 GMT
lowtacks86 But you’re moving the goalposts now. We were talking about witnessing being present to someone’s life being in danger. It doesn’t. It just shows you panicking more for one individual over another. You’re drawing your own conclusions from that. Isn’t this an argumentum ad populum fallacy?
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Post by lowtacks86 on Aug 26, 2018 23:29:35 GMT
lowtacks86 But you’re moving the goalposts now. We were talking about witnessing witnessing being present to someone’s life being in danger. It doesn’t. It just shows you panicking more for one individual over another. You’re drawing your own conclusions from that. Isn’t this an argumentum ad populum fallacy? "But you’re moving the goalposts now. We were talking about witnessing witnessing being present to someone’s life being in danger."
Not it isn't, I never said anything about "witnessing". If I were to tell you "Someone down the street is having a heart attack" you're reaction would probably be, "Well that sucks" and perhaps go over to see if that person is fine, that's about it, as opposed to say if you found out your mother was having a heart attack, you'd probably be rushing right over.
"It just shows you panicking more for one individual over another."
Which is a good indicator of the "emotional attachment" you have over someone. I really dunno why I'm having to explain this to you.
"Isn’t this an argumentum ad populum fallacy?"
No, argument ad populum would be more like "Dogs are better pets than chickens because more people keep them as pets". The point being people tend have more of an "emotional connection" to dogs because they're more likely to keep them as pets where chickens are more likely to be used as food. You generally don't eat an animals you have an emotional attachment to. It's the reason people generally don't eat their pot belly pigs they keep as pets even if they have no issue with eating pork in general.
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Post by Cody™ on Aug 26, 2018 23:41:18 GMT
lowtacks86 But you’re moving the goalposts now. We were talking about witnessing witnessing being present to someone’s life being in danger. It doesn’t. It just shows you panicking more for one individual over another. You’re drawing your own conclusions from that. Isn’t this an argumentum ad populum fallacy? "But you’re moving the goalposts now. We were talking about witnessing witnessing being present to someone’s life being in danger."
Not it isn't, I never said anything about "witnessing". If I were to tell you "Someone down the street is having a heart attack" you're reaction would probably be, "Well that sucks" and perhaps go over to see if that person is fine, that's about it, as opposed to say if you found out your mother was having a heart attack, you'd probably be rushing right over.
"It just shows you panicking more for one individual over another."
Which is a good indicator of the "emotional attachment" you have over someone. I really dunno why I'm having to explain this to you.
"Isn’t this an argumentum ad populum fallacy?"
No, argument ad populum would be more like "Dogs are better pets than chickens because more people keep them as pets". The point being people tend have more of an "emotional connection" to dogs because they're more likely to keep them as pets where chickens are more likely to be used as food. You generally don't eat an animals you have an emotional attachment to. It's the reason people generally don't eat their pot belly pigs they keep as pets even if they have no issue with eating pork in general.
Fair enough. I may have to concede this one. Even if I could just insist on being pedantic and question the genuine precise accuracy or legitimacy of the FMRI. |
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Post by captainbryce on Aug 26, 2018 23:52:12 GMT
Yes and yes. Proof, my mother actually let me live in her house rent free for 18 years, fed me, took me to the doctor when I was sick, read me bedtime stories, tucked me in at night, took me to the movies, and the beach, and six flags, came to my graduation (and cried), and....get this...actually confessed to me many times that she actually loves me. This isn’t proof. This is a claim. You’re arguing for personal experience and I don’t believe you. Sorry but I’m going to require something more concrete than “because I say so” Oh, I’m sorry. I misunderstood your question. I thought you were asking if proof existed that my mother loves me, when you are in fact asking me to prove TO YOU that my mother loves me. In that case, I’d say no thanks. I have no desire to prove anything to you (as I don’t really know you, and you knowing anything about me or my mother would be weird). I don’t really see the relevance of that question anyway as it doesn’t seem to relate in any way your ability to evangelize (your responsibility as a Christian). It’s not beneficial to you (or in your or my best interest) for me to get you to believe that my mother loves me. It IS in your best interest to get me to believe that your god exists. So the two things really aren’t comparable. If I actually thought that your eternal soul was dependent on you believing that my mother loves me, I’d absolutely prove to you that she does. But since nothing like that is at stake, then there is no desire for me to do that. |
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Post by Cody™ on Aug 27, 2018 0:01:58 GMT
captainbryceLet’s say for arguments sake that my soul was at stake. How would you prove your mother loves you.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 27, 2018 1:09:47 GMT
I don't absolutely know, but all of the evidence indicates that she does. She could just be a very convincing actor, I suppose.
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Post by captainbryce on Aug 27, 2018 1:41:24 GMT
captainbryce Let’s say for arguments sake that my soul was at stake. How would you prove your mother loves you. I’d probably start by introducing you to her. Then let you interrogate her yourself. Course I could then confirm most of the things she’s done for me out of love (for my entire life). |
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Post by Cody™ on Aug 27, 2018 7:35:17 GMT
captainbryce Let’s say for arguments sake that my soul was at stake. How would you prove your mother loves you. I’d probably start by introducing you to her. Then let you interrogate her yourself. Course I could then confirm most of the things she’s done for me out of love (for my entire life). How do I know she’s not lying? |
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Post by Cody™ on Aug 27, 2018 7:37:43 GMT
I don't absolutely know, but all of the evidence indicates that she does. She could just be a very convincing actor, I suppose. How would you present this evidence? |
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Post by captainbryce on Aug 27, 2018 11:16:15 GMT
I’d probably start by introducing you to her. Then let you interrogate her yourself. Course I could then confirm most of the things she’s done for me out of love (for my entire life). How do I know she’s not lying? Because love is demonstrated through actions is it not? And if it isn’t, then the relevant question becomes how would anyone prove any emotion to you. Or asking it a different way, what specifically would qualify as proof to you? And (hopefully to expedite this process along), perhaps you can cut to the chase and tell us where you are going with this? |
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Post by Cody™ on Aug 27, 2018 11:24:20 GMT
How do I know she’s not lying? Because love is demonstrated through actions is it not? And if it isn’t, then the relevant question becomes how would anyone prove any emotion to you. Or asking it a different way, what specifically would qualify as proof to you? And (hopefully to expedite this process along), perhaps you can cut to the chase and tell us where you are going with this? I meant how would I know she’s telling me the truth when I’m interegating her? |
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Post by captainbryce on Aug 27, 2018 11:38:25 GMT
Because love is demonstrated through actions is it not? And if it isn’t, then the relevant question becomes how would anyone prove any emotion to you. Or asking it a different way, what specifically would qualify as proof to you? And (hopefully to expedite this process along), perhaps you can cut to the chase and tell us where you are going with this? I meant how would I know she’s telling me the truth when I’m interegating her? I understood what you meant the first time you asked it. My answer was by examining her actions and then testing that against what she has said. Otherwise, how else would you test claims by anyone? |
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Post by Cody™ on Aug 27, 2018 11:48:17 GMT
I meant how would I know she’s telling me the truth when I’m interegating her? I understood what you meant the first time you asked it. My answer was by examining her actions and then testing that against what she has said. Otherwise, how else would you test claims by anyone? She could be faking her actions. |
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Post by captainbryce on Aug 27, 2018 11:52:19 GMT
I understood what you meant the first time you asked it. My answer was by examining her actions and then testing that against what she has said. Otherwise, how else would you test claims by anyone? She could be faking her actions. Are you ever going to cut to the chase and tell us where you are going with this?  |
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Post by Cody™ on Aug 27, 2018 11:55:06 GMT
She could be faking her actions. Are you ever going to cut to the chase and tell us where you are going with this? Doesn’t matter where I’m going. I’m challanging atheists on whether or not they can prove their mother loves them. So far you haven’t been able to do it. |
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Post by Isapop on Aug 27, 2018 12:10:21 GMT
Do you know that your mother loves you? If the answer is yes then can you prove it? There is nothing extraordinary about the claim, "My mother loves me". Indeed, without evidence to the contrary, there is no sound reason for anyone to doubt so mundane an assertion. Proof is not required by any rational person. Extraordinary claims are a far different matter, and the more extraordinary the claim, the more compelling the evidence must be.
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Post by Cody™ on Aug 27, 2018 12:46:40 GMT
Do you know that your mother loves you? If the answer is yes then can you prove it? There is nothing extraordinary about the claim, "My mother loves me". Indeed, without evidence to the contrary, there is no sound reason for anyone to doubt so mundane an assertion. Proof is not required by any rational person. Extraordinary claims are a far different matter, and the more extraordinary the claim, the more compelling the evidence must be.
It’s not about extraordinary claims. It’s a knowing that your mother loves you. A feeling. I’m merely putting that belief to the test. The question is can you prove it? |
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Post by captainbryce on Aug 27, 2018 13:28:23 GMT
Are you ever going to cut to the chase and tell us where you are going with this? Doesn’t matter where I’m going. I’m challanging atheists on whether or not they can prove their mother loves them. So far you haven’t been able to do it. And now that I know you’re not going anywhere with this challenge, there’s no reason for me to try. You believing that my mother loves me is inconsequential to anything, especially if it wasn’t meant to further some larger point. |
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