|
|
Post by captainbryce on Aug 28, 2018 18:04:16 GMT
The bible condones slavery, how do Christians justify it as a moral authority?
|
|
|
|
Post by clusium on Aug 28, 2018 18:52:33 GMT
The bible condones slavery, how do Christians justify it as a moral authority? We don't. Next question....? |
|
|
|
Post by captainbryce on Aug 28, 2018 19:11:57 GMT
The bible condones slavery, how do Christians justify it as a moral authority? We don't. Next question....? Well YOU may not, but many other Christians do. So I guess I’m talking to them (since you don’t speak for all a Christians). The fact of the matter is, the bible endorsed it, and if you believe the bible is the true word of God, and that it’s perfect, then that is a justification for what it condones. |
|
|
|
Post by CoolJGS☺ on Aug 28, 2018 19:49:02 GMT
The bible condones slavery, how do Christians justify it as a moral authority? When was slavery a moral issue in the Bible? |
|
|
|
Post by captainbryce on Aug 28, 2018 20:49:34 GMT
The bible condones slavery, how do Christians justify it as a moral authority? When was slavery a moral issue in the Bible? It wasn’t a moral issue in the bible; it’s a moral issue today. That’s the whole point! You agree that slavery is immoral yes? |
|
|
|
Post by amyghost on Aug 28, 2018 21:13:46 GMT
Jesus was certainly OK with it.
It's typical Xtian slanting. The bible has no moral stance on abortion, yet thousands of Christers will try to cite it as authority against. The bible shows absolutely no prejudicial attitude against slavery, yet those same Christers will attempt to argue that scripture doesn't justify it, or else will try to skip around the problem altogether as our friend above does. |
|
|
|
Post by CoolJGS☺ on Aug 28, 2018 21:45:27 GMT
Jesus was certainly OK with it.
It's typical Xtian slanting. The bible has no moral stance on abortion, yet thousands of Christers will try to cite it as authority against. The bible shows absolutely no prejudicial attitude against slavery, yet those same Christers will attempt to argue that scripture doesn't justify it, or else will try to skip around the problem altogether as our friend above does. This isn't entirely accurate since to understand the Bible's view on slavery you would have to highlight what it thought was pertinent regarding it. There's certainly no reason to skip around it. Heck, I've made threads about it. I'll try to come up with an educational lesson a little later. I agree that I never understood why abortion couldn't be considered a sucky practice without regard to the Scriptural view of it. |
|
|
|
Post by CoolJGS☺ on Aug 28, 2018 21:47:25 GMT
When was slavery a moral issue in the Bible? It wasn’t a moral issue in the bible; it’s a moral issue today. That’s the whole point! You agree that slavery is immoral yes? So you think that it being a moral issue today means it should have been one in Bible times? What are you basing this on exactly? Should the Bible have had unions too? Gay marriage? Animal shelters? |
|
|
|
Post by amyghost on Aug 28, 2018 21:52:39 GMT
It wasn’t a moral issue in the bible; it’s a moral issue today. That’s the whole point! You agree that slavery is immoral yes? What are you basing this on exactly? Should the Bible have had unions too? Gay marriage? Animal shelters? If you're going to claim Biblical/godly justification or lack of same for it, obviously the answer is yes. Why would issues that Christians maintain Jesus had a particular moral stance on be any different today from what they would have been to him then? |
|
|
|
Post by amyghost on Aug 28, 2018 21:59:26 GMT
Jesus was certainly OK with it.
It's typical Xtian slanting. The bible has no moral stance on abortion, yet thousands of Christers will try to cite it as authority against. The bible shows absolutely no prejudicial attitude against slavery, yet those same Christers will attempt to argue that scripture doesn't justify it, or else will try to skip around the problem altogether as our friend above does. There's certainly no reason to skip around it. Heck, I've made threads about it. I'll try to come up with an educational lesson a little later. I agree that I never understood why abortion couldn't be considered a sucky practice without regard to the Scriptural view of it. Why would I need to do that? Christians feel no need to highlight what's 'pertinent' in scripture regarding any subject they claim it either supports or rejects. |
|
|
|
Post by clusium on Aug 28, 2018 22:22:03 GMT
We don't. Next question....? Well YOU may not, but many other Christians do. So I guess I’m talking to them (since you don’t speak for all a Christians). The fact of the matter is, the bible endorsed it, and if you believe the bible is the true word of God, and that it’s perfect, then that is a justification for what it condones. Pretty sure the Book of Exodus is pretty clear on how God Views slavery. |
|
|
|
Post by amyghost on Aug 28, 2018 22:48:54 GMT
Well YOU may not, but many other Christians do. So I guess I’m talking to them (since you don’t speak for all a Christians). The fact of the matter is, the bible endorsed it, and if you believe the bible is the true word of God, and that it’s perfect, then that is a justification for what it condones. Pretty sure the Book of Exodus is pretty clear on how God Views slavery. Actually it isn't, except insofar as it's doing the two-step of conflating the notions of 'slavery' and of 'indentured servitude', as this article attempts:
www.godandscience.org/apologetics/slavery_bible.html
And this would seem to belie Jesus' pretty casual attitude regarding slavery, at any rate--so it seems strange that God would be at such variance with either his son, or himself, depending on which interpretation of Jesus' being you adhere to.
|
|
|
|
Post by captainbryce on Aug 28, 2018 22:53:28 GMT
It wasn’t a moral issue in the bible; it’s a moral issue today. That’s the whole point! You agree that slavery is immoral yes? So you think that it being a moral issue today means it should have been one in Bible times? If they had a solid moral foundation to begin with...YES! What are you basing this on exactly? I’m basing it on the fact that slavery is immoral. And if the bible was inspired by God, then the writers should have known it was immoral back then as well. And I notice you conveniently avoided the question, so I’ll ask it again. Is slavery immoral - yes or no? Should the Bible have had unions too? Gay marriage? Animal shelters? I don’t know what you mean by “should the bible have had” (insert random thing here). The bible is a collection of stories (relevant mostly to society at the time it was written, but to some extent relevant to the human condition as a whole). It contained instructions and commandments, supposedly from god, indicating what was moral in God’s eyes, and what wasn’t. Animal shelters don’t relate to the story in any way. If stray cats and dogs was a major societal problem back in those days, the authors might have mentioned it. But that clearly wasn’t a priority. Slavery was, hence the instructions about what type of slavery was moral. |
|
|
|
Post by captainbryce on Aug 28, 2018 23:07:48 GMT
Well YOU may not, but many other Christians do. So I guess I’m talking to them (since you don’t speak for all a Christians). The fact of the matter is, the bible endorsed it, and if you believe the bible is the true word of God, and that it’s perfect, then that is a justification for what it condones. Pretty sure the Book of Exodus is pretty clear on how God Views slavery. Yes, clear that he views it as moral and acceptable as long as it is regulated by the methods laid out in said book. For example: Exodus 21:7,20-21 “If you buy a Hebrew slave, he shall serve for six years; but on the seventh he shall go out as a free man without payment. If a man sells his daughter as a female slave, she is not to go free as the male slaves do. “If a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod and he dies at his hand, he shall be punished. If, however, he survives a day or two, no vengeance shall be taken; for he is his property... Also, Leviticus 25:44-46 As for your male and female slaves whom you may have—you may acquire male and female slaves from the pagan nations that are around you. Then, too, it is out of the sons of the sojourners who live as aliens among you that you may gain acquisition, and out of their families who are with you, whom they will have produced in your land; they also may become your possession. You may even bequeath them to your sons after you, to receive as a possession; you can use them as permanent slaves. But in respect to your countrymen, the sons of Israel, you shall not rule with severity over one another. So, not only are you are allowed to own slaves, you’re also allowed to beat them. It’s only if they die (or lose an eye or limb) did you commit a crime. Further, pagan slaves were not equal in terms of rights as Hebrew slaves were. You had to treat Hebrew slaves as “servants”, weren’t allowed to beat them, and had to let them go after a number of years, whereas slaves of other nations could be kept indefinitely. And female slaves were not equal to male slaves; they had less rights. Those were the rules that were considered “moral” by the biblical authors! |
|
|
|
Post by clusium on Aug 28, 2018 23:34:13 GMT
Pretty sure the Book of Exodus is pretty clear on how God Views slavery. Yes, clear that he views it as moral and acceptable as long as it is regulated by the methods laid out in said book. For example: Exodus 21:7,20-21 “If you buy a Hebrew slave, he shall serve for six years; but on the seventh he shall go out as a free man without payment. If a man sells his daughter as a female slave, she is not to go free as the male slaves do. “If a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod and he dies at his hand, he shall be punished. If, however, he survives a day or two, no vengeance shall be taken; for he is his property... Also, Leviticus 25:44-46 As for your male and female slaves whom you may have—you may acquire male and female slaves from the pagan nations that are around you. Then, too, it is out of the sons of the sojourners who live as aliens among you that you may gain acquisition, and out of their families who are with you, whom they will have produced in your land; they also may become your possession. You may even bequeath them to your sons after you, to receive as a possession; you can use them as permanent slaves. But in respect to your countrymen, the sons of Israel, you shall not rule with severity over one another. So, not only are you are allowed to own slaves, you’re also allowed to beat them. It’s only if they die (or lose an eye or limb) did you commit a crime. Further, pagan slaves were not equal in terms of rights as Hebrew slaves were. You had to treat Hebrew slaves as “servants”, weren’t allowed to beat them, and had to let them go after a number of years, whereas slaves of other nations could be kept indefinitely. And female slaves were not equal to male slaves; they had less rights. Those were the rules that were considered “moral” by the biblical authors! Yes, & not to mention all those plagues He Rained down on the Egyptians too.  |
|
|
|
Post by captainbryce on Aug 28, 2018 23:36:06 GMT
Yes, clear that he views it as moral and acceptable as long as it is regulated by the methods laid out in said book. For example: Exodus 21:7,20-21 “If you buy a Hebrew slave, he shall serve for six years; but on the seventh he shall go out as a free man without payment. If a man sells his daughter as a female slave, she is not to go free as the male slaves do. “If a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod and he dies at his hand, he shall be punished. If, however, he survives a day or two, no vengeance shall be taken; for he is his property... Also, Leviticus 25:44-46 As for your male and female slaves whom you may have—you may acquire male and female slaves from the pagan nations that are around you. Then, too, it is out of the sons of the sojourners who live as aliens among you that you may gain acquisition, and out of their families who are with you, whom they will have produced in your land; they also may become your possession. You may even bequeath them to your sons after you, to receive as a possession; you can use them as permanent slaves. But in respect to your countrymen, the sons of Israel, you shall not rule with severity over one another. So, not only are you are allowed to own slaves, you’re also allowed to beat them. It’s only if they die (or lose an eye or limb) did you commit a crime. Further, pagan slaves were not equal in terms of rights as Hebrew slaves were. You had to treat Hebrew slaves as “servants”, weren’t allowed to beat them, and had to let them go after a number of years, whereas slaves of other nations could be kept indefinitely. And female slaves were not equal to male slaves; they had less rights. Those were the rules that were considered “moral” by the biblical authors! Yes, & not to mention all those plagues He Rained down on the Egyptians too. Which invalidates anything I’ve said HOW exactly?  |
|
|
|
Post by clusium on Aug 28, 2018 23:48:35 GMT
Yes, & not to mention all those plagues He Rained down on the Egyptians too. Which invalidates anything I’ve said HOW exactly? Our Heavenly Father Loves freedom for ALL His children. |
|
|
|
Post by captainbryce on Aug 28, 2018 23:55:35 GMT
Which invalidates anything I’ve said HOW exactly? Our Heavenly Father Loves freedom for ALL His children. Yes. And apparently he also thinks it’s okay for some of them to own and beat others. How lovely indeed! |
|
|
|
Post by clusium on Aug 29, 2018 0:17:36 GMT
Our Heavenly Father Loves freedom for ALL His children. Yes. And apparently he also thinks it’s okay for some of them to own and beat others. How lovely indeed! In Philemon, God - through St. Paul - asks Philemon to take back an escaped slave, as a friend in Christ. |
|
|
|
Post by them1ghtyhumph on Aug 29, 2018 0:19:49 GMT
The bible condones slavery, how do Christians justify it as a moral authority? God's will |
|
