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Post by hobowar on Aug 30, 2018 16:29:41 GMT
Or are things like character inconsistancies, incoherent themes and having Superman engage in destruction porn for forty minutes a bigger problem?
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Post by Skaathar on Aug 30, 2018 16:59:36 GMT
I usually lump plotholes, physical/timing inconsistencies, character dumbfuckery and just plain stupid writing into one big bowl. It's expected that movies will have some one or two of these. I can forgive and shrug off quite a few. But once they get too many then it becomes distracting and really lowers the value of the movie for me. TDKR is a good example of this. That movie is riddled with plotholes and just plain dumb inconsistencies.
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Post by hobowar on Aug 30, 2018 17:03:57 GMT
I usually lump plotholes, physical/timing inconsistencies, character dumbfuckery and just plain stupid writing into one big bowl. It's expected that movies will have some one or two of these. I can forgive and shrug off quite a few. But once they get too many then it becomes distracting and really lowers the value of the movie for me. TDKR is a good example of this. That movie is riddled with plotholes and just plain dumb inconsistencies. My biggest problem with TDKR is that Bruce Wayne gave up being Batman for 8 years because someone close to him died. That's completely against who he is in my opinion. |
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Post by Rey Kahuka on Aug 30, 2018 17:31:06 GMT
I usually lump plotholes, physical/timing inconsistencies, character dumbfuckery and just plain stupid writing into one big bowl. It's expected that movies will have some one or two of these. I can forgive and shrug off quite a few. But once they get too many then it becomes distracting and really lowers the value of the movie for me. TDKR is a good example of this. That movie is riddled with plotholes and just plain dumb inconsistencies. My biggest problem with TDKR is that Bruce Wayne gave up being Batman for 8 years because someone close to him died. That's completely against who he is in my opinion. It isn't just against who he is, it's against what the end of TDK tells us. Gordon literally says, "We'll hunt him, because he can take it." And, "He's a silent guardian. A watchful protector. A dark knight." And then apparently he immediately quits? It makes zero sense. |
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Post by Skaathar on Aug 30, 2018 17:46:52 GMT
I usually lump plotholes, physical/timing inconsistencies, character dumbfuckery and just plain stupid writing into one big bowl. It's expected that movies will have some one or two of these. I can forgive and shrug off quite a few. But once they get too many then it becomes distracting and really lowers the value of the movie for me. TDKR is a good example of this. That movie is riddled with plotholes and just plain dumb inconsistencies. My biggest problem with TDKR is that Bruce Wayne gave up being Batman for 8 years because someone close to him died. That's completely against who he is in my opinion. Yes, that was against what we know of Batman, but I can forgive it since Nolan's Batman was supposed to be a more realistic version... so I can understand that a vigilante would get traumatized and disillusioned by something like that. The problem is that, because the Nolan Batman movies were supposed to be realistic, I then found the unrealistic inconsistencies incredibly sloppy: 1. Policemen being completely clean shaven despite having spent months locked in the sewers 2. Sending your entire police department to the sewers for an unconfirmed security threat 3. Lightly-armed policemen charging across a block and not dying against a heavily armed terrorist group (which even has a tank) 4. Entering a tunnel in daylight then coming out the other end a few minutes later in complete nighttime 5. Repairing a broken back by punching it 6. Bruce having torn ligaments or no more fluids in his joints which magically gets repaired by first a SINGLE knee brace and later on after the back-punching mentioned in #6 7. Bruce being inactive for 8 years and having suffered injuries yet is able to immediately get into top shape and beat thugs up 8. Bruce finding the time to draw a huge bat signal made of fuel despite there being a ticking time bomb in the city 9. Bruce finding time to shave and talk to Catwoman despite there being a ticking time bomb in the city 10. Bruce finding a way to get back to a fortified, locked down Gotham after escaping the pit from a (seemingly) different country with no money and no identification 11. Thugs randomly falling to the ground in a fight scene despite not getting hit 12. "Robin" figuring out who Bruce is from a look in his eyes There's a whole bunch more but my fingers are already hurting from typing all this stupidity. |
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Post by hobowar on Aug 30, 2018 18:18:32 GMT
My biggest problem with TDKR is that Bruce Wayne gave up being Batman for 8 years because someone close to him died. That's completely against who he is in my opinion. Yes, that was against what we know of Batman, but I can forgive it since Nolan's Batman was supposed to be a more realistic version... so I can understand that a vigilante would get traumatized and disillusioned by something like that. The problem is that, because the Nolan Batman movies were supposed to be realistic, I then found the unrealistic inconsistencies incredibly sloppy: 1. Policemen being completely clean shaven despite having spent months locked in the sewers 2. Sending your entire police department to the sewers for an unconfirmed security threat 3. Lightly-armed policemen charging across a block and not dying against a heavily armed terrorist group (which even has a tank) 4. Entering a tunnel in daylight then coming out the other end a few minutes later in complete nighttime 5. Repairing a broken back by punching it 6. Bruce having torn ligaments or no more fluids in his joints which magically gets repaired by first a SINGLE knee brace and later on after the back-punching mentioned in #6 7. Bruce being inactive for 8 years and having suffered injuries yet is able to immediately get into top shape and beat thugs up 8. Bruce finding the time to draw a huge bat signal made of fuel despite there being a ticking time bomb in the city 9. Bruce finding time to shave and talk to Catwoman despite there being a ticking time bomb in the city 10. Bruce finding a way to get back to a fortified, locked down Gotham after escaping the pit from a (seemingly) different country with no money and no identification 11. Thugs randomly falling to the ground in a fight scene despite not getting hit 12. "Robin" figuring out who Bruce is from a look in his eyes There's a whole bunch more but my fingers are already hurting from typing all this stupidity. I remember seeing a video on Youtube about how suspension of disbelief gets broken, and one of the main things they were talking about was how an overly serious tone can make the ACTUAL silly things (adult men dressed up as bats) stand out like a sore thumb. |
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Post by Rey Kahuka on Aug 30, 2018 18:27:51 GMT
My biggest problem with TDKR is that Bruce Wayne gave up being Batman for 8 years because someone close to him died. That's completely against who he is in my opinion. Yes, that was against what we know of Batman, but I can forgive it since Nolan's Batman was supposed to be a more realistic version... so I can understand that a vigilante would get traumatized and disillusioned by something like that. The problem is that, because the Nolan Batman movies were supposed to be realistic, I then found the unrealistic inconsistencies incredibly sloppy: 1. Policemen being completely clean shaven despite having spent months locked in the sewers 2. Sending your entire police department to the sewers for an unconfirmed security threat 3. Lightly-armed policemen charging across a block and not dying against a heavily armed terrorist group (which even has a tank) 4. Entering a tunnel in daylight then coming out the other end a few minutes later in complete nighttime 5. Repairing a broken back by punching it 6. Bruce having torn ligaments or no more fluids in his joints which magically gets repaired by first a SINGLE knee brace and later on after the back-punching mentioned in #6 7. Bruce being inactive for 8 years and having suffered injuries yet is able to immediately get into top shape and beat thugs up 8. Bruce finding the time to draw a huge bat signal made of fuel despite there being a ticking time bomb in the city9. Bruce finding time to shave and talk to Catwoman despite there being a ticking time bomb in the city 10. Bruce finding a way to get back to a fortified, locked down Gotham after escaping the pit from a (seemingly) different country with no money and no identification 11. Thugs randomly falling to the ground in a fight scene despite not getting hit 12. "Robin" figuring out who Bruce is from a look in his eyes There's a whole bunch more but my fingers are already hurting from typing all this stupidity. Not only finding the time, but thinking it was a good idea to let them know he was back in the first place. Why they didn't immediately set off the bomb is anyone's guess. Then there's the idea that the Dent Act stopped all crime from happening. A cop says something about having to arrest people for overdue library books or whatever; yet Catwoman is all over the papers and she warns Batman that "a war is coming," so clearly there's a huge ongoing criminal enterprise that the police are oblivious to. The script seems to be at war with itself over this issue. Bruce trusts Catwoman because they want to give him a happy ending, there's absolutely no reason for him to trust her. She stole from him, she led him into a trap that nearly killed him, and he comes back and says, "There's good in you." What gave him that idea? And we can't forget the cartoonish villain doing a bad Sean Connery impression through a rubber hose. Or the hilariously awful Talia death scene. How did actors the quality of Hardy and Cotillard turn in such embarrassing performances? TDKR is such a terrible movie, I still can't believe Nolan filmed that script. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 30, 2018 18:37:12 GMT
If its a small plot hole no.
If its a big plot hole yes.
But i have to admit i hardly ever notice plot holes.
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Post by lenlenlen1 on Aug 30, 2018 18:58:04 GMT
Or are things like character inconsistancies, incoherent themes and having Superman engage in destruction porn for forty minutes a bigger problem? A) plot holes matter only in so much as they wreck the actual story of the movie, and/or it undoes something that was already established and not even in a clever retcon kind of way. For example: Darth vader did not create C3PO. Do you know how small a universe it would be if that were true? |
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Post by hobowar on Aug 30, 2018 19:05:19 GMT
Or are things like character inconsistancies, incoherent themes and having Superman engage in destruction porn for forty minutes a bigger problem? A) plot holes matter only in so much as they wreck the actual story of the movie, and/or it undoes something that was already established and not even in a clever retcon kind of way. For example: Darth vader did not create C3PO. Do you know who small a universe it would be if that were true? Did you watch the video? What you said is very similar to the points made in that video. |
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Post by kevin on Aug 30, 2018 19:09:57 GMT
As long as they don't completely take you out of the movie I don't think they matter. Every movie has plot holes and focusing on each and every one of them will ruin watching most movies. And I also don't really care about technical mistakes a like mistake with a shadow in one shot or if there is a minor editing mistake as long as they don't happen all the time.
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Post by lenlenlen1 on Aug 30, 2018 19:18:37 GMT
A) plot holes matter only in so much as they wreck the actual story of the movie, and/or it undoes something that was already established and not even in a clever retcon kind of way. For example: Darth vader did not create C3PO. Do you know how small a universe it would be if that were true? Did you watch the video? What you said is very similar to the points made in that video. Also, one man's plot holes is anothers "not that big a deal". |
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Post by hobowar on Aug 30, 2018 19:47:34 GMT
Did you watch the video? What you said is very similar to the points made in that video. Also, one ma's plot holes is anothers "not that big a deal". That is true. |
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Post by No Morpho, Only Bánh mì on Aug 30, 2018 19:55:41 GMT
I usually lump plotholes, physical/timing inconsistencies, character dumbfuckery and just plain stupid writing into one big bowl. It's expected that movies will have some one or two of these. I can forgive and shrug off quite a few. But once they get too many then it becomes distracting and really lowers the value of the movie for me. TDKR is a good example of this. That movie is riddled with plotholes and just plain dumb inconsistencies. My biggest problem with TDKR is that Bruce Wayne gave up being Batman for 8 years because someone close to him died. That's completely against who he is in my opinion. True, but it was implied he was actually active during that time and not really out of the game for so long. |
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Post by Rey Kahuka on Aug 30, 2018 20:00:34 GMT
Did you watch the video? What you said is very similar to the points made in that video. Also, one man's plot holes is anothers "not that big a deal". I think this is the point kevin was making in his post, and it goes beyond plot holes. If the movie works for you as a whole, you're going to overlook trivial things. For example, some of the stuff skaathar listed about TDKR (specifically points 1 and 11) I could file as 'not a big deal,' but there was just so much wrong with TDKR, for me at least, that I can't overlook the serious issues with the script. Pretty much any time I watch a tv show, there's at least one point in the episode I shake my head at one plot contrivance or another. But ultimately if the story and the performances are good enough, the positive will outweigh the negative. You could nitpick almost any movie/show to death, but you only feel compelled to when the negatives start to outweigh the positives in all aspects of production. |
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Post by lenlenlen1 on Aug 30, 2018 20:15:14 GMT
Also, one man's plot holes is anothers "not that big a deal". I think this is the point kevin was making in his post, and it goes beyond plot holes. If the movie works for you as a whole, you're going to overlook trivial things. For example, some of the stuff skaathar listed about TDKR (specifically points 1 and 11) I could file as 'not a big deal,' but there was just so much wrong with TDKR, for me at least, that I can't overlook the serious issues with the script. Pretty much any time I watch a tv show, there's at least one point in the episode I shake my head at one plot contrivance or another. But ultimately if the story and the performances are good enough, the positive will outweigh the negative. You could nitpick almost any movie/show to death, but you only feel compelled to when the negatives start to outweigh the positives in all aspects of production. ^^^THIS^^^
For me the biggest plot hole nitpick was Star Wars: The Phantom Menace. That was the one that had way too many, for me, IMO. But others defended each and every one of those plot holes like their lives depended on it. So I stopped complaining. To each their own, right?
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Post by dazz on Aug 31, 2018 0:48:37 GMT
All depends on the circumstances, but I agree that when it does fuck up is when it contradicts an established story point or element, such as Rey in TFA she contradicts everything we have seen in SW, Jedi need to learn to use the force, they have some access to it naturally but doing all the cool tricks takes dedication and not just being told hey you're a Jedi heres all the cheat codes.
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Post by Tristan's Journal on Aug 31, 2018 11:11:01 GMT
All depends on the circumstances, but I agree that when it does fuck up is when it contradicts an established story point or element, such as Rey in TFA she contradicts everything we have seen in SW, Jedi need to learn to use the force, they have some access to it naturally but doing all the cool tricks takes dedication and not just being told hey you're a Jedi heres all the cheat codes. Rey in TFA is a walking logic leap, they literally bend the SW universe around her so to accomodate her. It's called Mary Sue writing.
Worst example: Leia Hugged First, when Leia after Han's death ignores Chewie (and he her) as well as all her surviving heroes she commands, just to go to Rey and hug her - a character she never met and who just might have killed her only son. the Sue must be accomodated regardless of character history and logic.
Or: Emo Ren prays to Vader to protect him from the light. Thus, the guy who redeemed himself by destroying the dark side and who is floating around as friendly Force ghost.
This is the point when plot holes become malignent.
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Post by Terrapin Station on Aug 31, 2018 11:13:05 GMT
Depends on the plot holes of course. They often matter to me. I want a coherent story that doesn't just seem random.
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Post by Tristan's Journal on Aug 31, 2018 11:39:30 GMT
Or are things like character inconsistancies, incoherent themes and having Superman engage in destruction porn for forty minutes a bigger problem? A) plot holes matter only in so much as they wreck the actual story of the movie, and/or it undoes something that was already established and not even in a clever retcon kind of way. For example: Darth vader did not create C3PO. Do you know how small a universe it would be if that were true?this is a false example for a plot hole. there is no narrative inconsistency with previous exposition or plot beats.
It may be called unnecessary fan service. But even that is not entirely correct.
Lucas uses the droid cleverly to make a point too: Anakin built a protocoll droid to "help mom". Later when his mother is killed, he gives the protocol droid to his senator wife (changing from silver to gold). The same way he projects his forbidden attachments & fear of loss from his mother onto his wife, which will lead to their downfall.
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