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Post by j2 on Feb 11, 2017 2:04:18 GMT
Please address my actual arguments if you think they are so wrong? Just a quick question: You wrote that you did your studies "(with the guidance of the Holy Spirit)" Can I ask you how you knew it was the 'Holy Spirit'?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2017 6:43:38 GMT
Firstly, the old testament says all kinds of whacky things are wrong... don't cut your hair (anyone not guilty of that?), take your son out to the city gates and stone him to death if he is drunk, etc (that's most males killed by the time they are 14 or 15 if you follow that)...
Secondly, it's parts were written in a time in the Levant, where the neighbouring city states and tribes were constantly fighting for dominance of the trade routes, notably opium... propaganda "those (insert tribe name) are terrible, god loves us, not them"...
Thirdly, from a Christian perspective, Jesus never said anything about gays... he was friends with prostitutes mind, and he only gave one sermon, in which he told his followers to "love each other as I have loved you"... quite plain really, he didn't mumble , and he didn't exclude anyone based on sexuality...
Think for yourselves... any bigotry you hold towards gay people is your own prejudice... judge not etc.
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Post by awhina on Feb 11, 2017 7:00:09 GMT
Firstly, the old testament says all kinds of whacky things are wrong... don't cut your hair (anyone not guilty of that?), take your son out to the city gates and stone him to death if he is drunk, etc (that's most males killed by the time they are 14 or 15 if you follow that)... Secondly, it's parts were written in a time in the Levant, where the neighbouring city states and tribes were constantly fighting for dominance of the trade routes, notably opium... propaganda "those (insert tribe name) are terrible, god loves us, not them"... Thirdly, from a Christian perspective, Jesus never said anything about gays... he was friends with prostitutes mind, and he only gave one sermon, in which he told his followers to "love each other as I have loved you"... quite plain really, he didn't mumble , and he didn't exclude anyone based on sexuality... Think for yourselves... any bigotry you hold towards gay people is your own prejudice... judge not etc. The New Testament also condemns homosexuality. As for Jesus, if he had a new view of homosexuality he would have said so.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2017 7:08:26 GMT
Firstly, the old testament says all kinds of whacky things are wrong... don't cut your hair (anyone not guilty of that?), take your son out to the city gates and stone him to death if he is drunk, etc (that's most males killed by the time they are 14 or 15 if you follow that)... Secondly, it's parts were written in a time in the Levant, where the neighbouring city states and tribes were constantly fighting for dominance of the trade routes, notably opium... propaganda "those (insert tribe name) are terrible, god loves us, not them"... Thirdly, from a Christian perspective, Jesus never said anything about gays... he was friends with prostitutes mind, and he only gave one sermon, in which he told his followers to "love each other as I have loved you"... quite plain really, he didn't mumble , and he didn't exclude anyone based on sexuality... Think for yourselves... any bigotry you hold towards gay people is your own prejudice... judge not etc. The New Testament also condemns homosexuality. Well, Paul does, but he never even met Jesus did he... he had hallucinations, which is a symptom of a psychotic disorder.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2017 10:16:05 GMT
Firstly, the old testament says all kinds of whacky things are wrong... don't cut your hair (anyone not guilty of that?), take your son out to the city gates and stone him to death if he is drunk, etc (that's most males killed by the time they are 14 or 15 if you follow that)... Secondly, it's parts were written in a time in the Levant, where the neighbouring city states and tribes were constantly fighting for dominance of the trade routes, notably opium... propaganda "those (insert tribe name) are terrible, god loves us, not them"... Thirdly, from a Christian perspective, Jesus never said anything about gays... he was friends with prostitutes mind, and he only gave one sermon, in which he told his followers to "love each other as I have loved you"... quite plain really, he didn't mumble , and he didn't exclude anyone based on sexuality... Think for yourselves... any bigotry you hold towards gay people is your own prejudice... judge not etc. if he had a new view of homosexuality he would have said so. He did have a new view on homosexuality... He said: "Love each other as I have loved you" "It is not for you to judge" "You are the sinner" Quite plain...
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j2
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Post by j2 on Feb 11, 2017 10:31:13 GMT
if he had a new view of homosexuality he would have said so. He did have a new view on homosexuality... He said: "Love each other as I have loved you" "It is not for you to judge" "You are the sinner" Quite plain... Actually, regarding what you argue that is not quite plain, nor accurate. Would you please explain?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2017 10:43:36 GMT
He did have a new view on homosexuality... He said: "Love each other as I have loved you" "It is not for you to judge" "You are the sinner" Quite plain... Actually, regarding what you argue that is not quite plain, nor accurate. Would you please explain? As far as accuracy goes, that is the upshot of what he said according to the gospels we have... But, the gospels have gone through various iterations over the years, mostly through misinterpretations and political expediency, so who knows for sure eh? eg, early Greek gospels didn't even call his disciples, disciples, they called them "doulos", his slaves.
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Post by j2 on Feb 11, 2017 13:10:43 GMT
Actually, regarding what you argue that is not quite plain, nor accurate. Would you please explain? As far as accuracy goes, that is the upshot of what he said according to the gospels we have... But, the gospels have gone through various iterations over the years, mostly through misinterpretations and political expediency, so who knows for sure eh? eg, early Greek gospels didn't even call his disciples, disciples, they called them "doulos", his slaves. So what you mean is that what you said is not plain and it can't be accurate, right?
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Post by awhina on Feb 12, 2017 1:51:34 GMT
The New Testament also condemns homosexuality. Well, Paul does, but he never even met Jesus did he... he had hallucinations, which is a symptom of a psychotic disorder. Wow, I thought 'hallucinations' was pejorative enough, but you upped the ante with 'psychotic'. (I assume you are not a believer despite your screen name, or you'd know the difference between 'psychosis' and a spiritual experience!) I notice that you took no notice of my point about Jesus - to repeat it in slightly different words - "Jesus knew that the Bible of his time, the OT, condemned homosexuality. If he favoured it, or thought it was just dandy, then he'd have said so! He would have mentioned it, and said "hey, God gave me a new word about homosexuality, he's fine with it now". As it was, why would he mention something nobody questioned?"
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Post by awhina on Feb 12, 2017 3:27:42 GMT
if he had a new view of homosexuality he would have said so. He did have a new view on homosexuality... He said: "Love each other as I have loved you" "It is not for you to judge" "You are the sinner" Quite plain... Love doesn't mean "have sex with". So no, "love one another" doesn't mean "be homosexual to your heart's content".
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Post by j2 on Feb 12, 2017 4:28:34 GMT
He did have a new view on homosexuality... He said: "Love each other as I have loved you" "It is not for you to judge" "You are the sinner" Quite plain... Love doesn't mean "have sex with". So no, "love one another" doesn't mean "be homosexual to your heart's content". What awhina says sounds true. Any thoughts on this @fatherjackhackett ?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2017 9:13:27 GMT
Love doesn't mean "have sex with". So no, "love one another" doesn't mean "be homosexual to your heart's content". What awhina says sounds true. Any thoughts on this @fatherjackhackett ? Egads! Are you both being deliberately obtuse on that point? The command to love each other as I have loved you was a plain command... he loved and befriended people regardless of what so called god fearing folk thought of them, like prostitutes... It is not for you to judge people was his message... it was more in line with Rufus' "Be excellent to each other".
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Post by awhina on Feb 12, 2017 9:29:24 GMT
What awhina says sounds true. Any thoughts on this @fatherjackhackett ? Egads! Are you both being deliberately obtuse on that point? The command to love each other as I have loved you was a plain command... he loved and befriended people regardless of what so called god fearing folk thought of them, like prostitutes... It is not for you to judge people was his message... it was more in line with Rufus' "Be excellent to each other". Not only did Jesus judge sin, he didn't and doesn't tell us not to. Instead his remark about not judging simply warns against hypocrisy.
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Post by j2 on Feb 12, 2017 11:05:54 GMT
What awhina says sounds true. Any thoughts on this @fatherjackhackett ? Egads! Are you both being deliberately obtuse on that point? The command to love each other as I have loved you was a plain command... he loved and befriended people regardless of what so called god fearing folk thought of them, like prostitutes... It is not for you to judge people was his message... it was more in line with Rufus' "Be excellent to each other". Not obtuse. What she says does sound true and direct (to me), and what you say doesn't seem to be as plain as you say it is.
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Post by awhina on Feb 13, 2017 0:40:41 GMT
What it comes down to here is that you are holding me and others like me to your personal standard. You personally don't like it and, in your own words, find it "unacceptable". You have no say on what God finds acceptable or unacceptable. It's not just my "personal standard!" You know that! What plank do you imagine I have in my eye? (Whatever the facts are, they are not your business, but even so). I am careful to avoid on-going continued sin, which is condemned. I wonder why you avoid the Bible after the Gpspels? Do you like fatherjackhackett believe that Paul's "psychotic"? It's not my say, it's 1 John.
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Post by awhina on Feb 13, 2017 0:46:18 GMT
If you believe all that old testament 'law', then you must also agree with all the old testament 'laws'... They are mostly crazy, and often contradict each other... You already know that the New Testament also condemns homosexuality. Why are you pretending?
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Post by Aj_June on Feb 13, 2017 8:00:32 GMT
Look, I have already fully stated my beliefs and used scripture to back it up. You have ignored most of what I have posted and you are fixated on being judgmental. You have also shown to be hypocritical. You clearly said that your sins are not my business. So, using your same logic, you should not make my sins any of your business. I am also going to leave this thread. Blue, You have been very nice in this thread and I hope to see you more on this board. An old RFS board poster here. The person you are talking to is as dishonest and hypocritical as they come.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 13, 2017 8:18:02 GMT
To be clear, the bible was written by men, and the contents of the bible were chosen by a group of men. Who gives a shit what the bible condemns or does not condemn?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 13, 2017 8:45:54 GMT
To be clear, the bible was written by men, and the contents of the bible were chosen by a group of men. Who gives a shit what the bible condemns or does not condemn? That is true. However my initial post and resulting conversation with that other poster was in the context of the Bible being taken literally. While I do have my strong beliefs, I am open to the notion of the Bible having its flaws as it was written by men many, many years ago. Who's to the say that the version we have today is the same as it was written back then? I focus more on the actions and teachings attributed to Jesus more than anything else in the Bible. Well, my post wasn't directed at you, so I hope you didn't take it that way. but anyways, the version of the bible that exists today has gone through countless translations and countless editing by countless people.
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Post by j2 on Feb 13, 2017 9:24:05 GMT
To be clear, the bible was written by men, and the contents of the bible were chosen by a group of men. Who gives a shit what the bible condemns or does not condemn? Obviously quite a lot of people do or else this thread wouldn't exist, don't you think?
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