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Post by Deleted on Mar 24, 2017 6:47:05 GMT
How can we be sure in this regard?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 24, 2017 7:44:36 GMT
We can't. I remember hearing this man, who had died and came back, say that you judge yourself. He saw his life in panorama and saw how he made others feel when he bullied them and he felt the way they did. The book is Saved By the Light by Dannion Brinkley
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Mar 24, 2017 11:35:18 GMT
No one knows for sure since no one should be so confident that they can remain faithful and obedient.
That said, there is plenty of information regarding what it takes to gain salvation.
In any event, if one wants to be a follower of God in the first place, it lessens the concern one would have for salvtion since they are doing it primarily because they want to.
There's a verse that kinda explains this a little and it's talking about people who diobeyed God at Zephaniah 2:3
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Post by Deleted on Mar 24, 2017 11:38:32 GMT
We can only behave in the manner that God has predetermined that we will behave.
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Mar 24, 2017 11:42:10 GMT
We can only behave in the manner that God has predetermined that we will behave. This is incorrect.
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Post by cupcakes on Mar 24, 2017 16:06:26 GMT
tpfkar God certainly gave us our all of our traits, including our inclinations. I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Mar 24, 2017 16:16:21 GMT
cupcakesOur inclinations are self controllable meaning we control the levels they affect us. It's a far cry from predetermination.
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Post by thefleetsin on Mar 24, 2017 16:18:39 GMT
which fable do you subscribe to?
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Post by johnblutarsky on Mar 24, 2017 16:23:01 GMT
We can only behave in the manner that God has predetermined that we will behave. This is incorrect. Doesn't God know everything about us...from the day that we're born through the day that we die?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 24, 2017 16:23:53 GMT
cupcakes Our inclinations are self controllable meaning we control the levels they affect us. It's a far cry from predetermination. Isn't deciding to control one inclination just another inclination?
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Post by progressiveelement on Mar 24, 2017 16:25:05 GMT
How can we be sure in this regard?
A big hand comes out of the sky and starts splatting people for lulz.
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Post by cupcakes on Mar 24, 2017 16:33:06 GMT
tpfkar God gave us our relative abilities and our desires to control our inclinations. Only some were given what is needed to escape obliteration by Him. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Mar 24, 2017 16:53:56 GMT
Doesn't God know everything about us...from the day that we're born through the day that we die? Maybe if he chooses too but we're probably not that special.
He certainly isn't mandated to and the clearly in Scripture we are encouraged to make the right choices and are allowed to make the wrong ones.
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Mar 24, 2017 16:55:29 GMT
cupcakes Our inclinations are self controllable meaning we control the levels they affect us. It's a far cry from predetermination. Isn't deciding to control one inclination just another inclination? No, because we may not be inclined to do so. It often takes effort.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 24, 2017 16:58:29 GMT
Isn't deciding to control one inclination just another inclination? No, because we may not be inclined to do so. It often takes effort.
If you're not inclined to control your actions, then why would you make the effort to do so?
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Mar 24, 2017 17:12:18 GMT
No, because we may not be inclined to do so. It often takes effort.
If you're not inclined to control your actions, then why would you make the effort to do so? Who said anything about not being inclined to control actions? I'm inclined to control most of my actions to some extent.
I think you may be expanding this beyond what my initial statement was so before I get accused of lying or being dishonest or whatever else comes up, I'll clarify and people can build on that.
Free will allows us to make all kinds of choices without God's involvement. Just because we have particular biological response in no way means we need to act on those. Some things are relatively easy to control. A guy with a boner isn't going to automatically seek something to boink, a thirsty person isn't going to drink sea water, etc....
However, some inclination may take some effort. An alcoholic may have to work hard to avoid a drink, a person with a sport car may have a tough time not speeding in it, etc...
Righteous people have their own tough times because sin is another thing to avoid despite it possible going against a perfectly normal inclination like sex, eating, avoiding conflict, survival, etc...
All of those and thousands more have different levels of effort and some require no effort at all.
I bring all that out to swing back to the original point - God is not controlling those choices regardless of the level of inclination. You can do as you like given whatever scientific barriers (Biology, physics, gravity, etc...) and not blame anyone but yourself and maybe your parents and sucky country one may live in. It doesn't matter at all unless one concerns themselves with God's wishes.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 24, 2017 17:28:43 GMT
If you're not inclined to control your actions, then why would you make the effort to do so? Who said anything about not being inclined to control actions? You did. I asked you if controlling your inclinations was another inclination and you said it wasn't. Sure. But this is just a case of one inclination winning out over another. I may want to eat chocolate, but I also want to not go blind. So I choose one desire over another. But it's all just giving in to my natural desires, no matter what I do.
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Mar 24, 2017 18:04:53 GMT
@graham
You did. I asked you if controlling your inclinations was another inclination and you said it wasn't.
That's not entirely accurate. You asked a question as if it was an absolute which is what I was referring to and which is why I felt the need to expound.
Controlling an inclination is not automatically an inclination because it may take effort.
My apologies if I misunderstood what you asked.
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Mar 24, 2017 18:09:02 GMT
Sure. But this is just a case of one inclination winning out over another. I may want to eat chocolate, but I also want to not go blind. So I choose one desire over another. But it's all just giving in to my natural desires, no matter what I do.
OK, so we apparently have different views for what an inclination even is. An inclination, imo, is a natural tendency. From the example you give, you seem to think it's a risk/reward scenario. Desire is still based on choice anyway, so its all good.
In any event, I'm still not sure what this has to do with the notion of inclination being predetermination.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 24, 2017 18:50:58 GMT
Controlling an inclination is not automatically an inclination because it may take effort. I don't see why it taking effort means it's not an inclination. Effort just indicates one inclination struggling against another.
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