|
|
Post by goz on Sept 11, 2018 1:38:49 GMT
To me they are overlapping. WTF is 'wisdom'? Isn't the overlapping then the grey area, like the yin and the yang?
Wisdom is the truth.
Since the internal is only the result of individual perception and interpretation of the external, then they are indivisible. No. The 'truth' is only a perception and interpretation much like wisdom, gained through the process of examining 'facts' that appear to be a 'truth'. A fact is a fact and not necessarily either a truth nor wisdom. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
@Deleted
Posts: 0
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 11, 2018 1:48:15 GMT
I have edited my previous post to you.
You think in terms of conceptual separation. You are being rational and logical in regards to the science of energy, but isn't gravity still a heaviness that is still grounding us, or things to the earth? I look at that symbolically and it is about attachment, which in turn leads to misery and suffering. Is not energy a part of everything that is being, which is all wholistic\holistic and which is vibrational. When you go to a place you haven't been to before, have you not commented on the vibe of it, or being around certain individuals that may or may not give of a pleasant vibe. This is all energy that cannot be denied. If it is then what is it?
I think perhaps we should end this conversation. It's a waste of time and effort for both of us. |
|
|
|
Post by Arlon10 on Sept 11, 2018 1:56:10 GMT
X exists = x is instantiated, x obtains, x occurs, x is present, etc. Or in relation to concepts, the concept of x picks out something in the external world. Re it being a model, we could just as well say that God is an explanatory model. Does God exist, though, or is it just a convenient fiction, a placeholder for something else that will eventually supplant it as a better, more accurate explanation (that does pick out something that obtains externally)? god certainly is an explanatory model. But it's not a useful one, as it doesn't really explain anything, isn't falsifiable, and doesn't allow testable predictions. But if you can come up with a model of god that meets those criteria, I'm all for it. Restricting your attention to only those things even idiots will agree upon might work out very well for you. Of course there are bound to be even some of those things where you can find people with few conversational skills, rare opportunities to show the world how clever you are. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
@Deleted
Posts: 0
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 11, 2018 2:05:52 GMT
god certainly is an explanatory model. But it's not a useful one, as it doesn't really explain anything, isn't falsifiable, and doesn't allow testable predictions. But if you can come up with a model of god that meets those criteria, I'm all for it. Restricting your attention to only those things even idiots will agree upon might work out very well for you. Of course there are bound to be even some of those things where you can find people with few conversational skills, rare opportunities to show the world how clever you are. Nothing a liar like yourself has to say is of any interest, Arlon. |
|
|
|
Post by Arlon10 on Sept 11, 2018 2:09:45 GMT
Restricting your attention to only those things even idiots will agree upon might work out very well for you. Of course there are bound to be even some of those things where you can find people with few conversational skills, rare opportunities to show the world how clever you are. Nothing a liar like yourself has to say is of any interest, Arlon. You forgot to plug your ears and sing la la la la la la. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
@Deleted
Posts: 0
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 11, 2018 2:11:36 GMT
Nothing a liar like yourself has to say is of any interest, Arlon. You forgot to plug your ears and sing la la la la la la. Nothing a liar like yourself has to say is of any interest, Arlon. |
|
|
|
Post by Arlon10 on Sept 11, 2018 2:18:41 GMT
You forgot to plug your ears and sing la la la la la la. Nothing a liar like yourself has to say is of any interest, Arlon. Have a heart. Not all of us can be masters of pointless mind numbing repetition like you. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
@Deleted
Posts: 0
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 11, 2018 2:19:28 GMT
Nothing a liar like yourself has to say is of any interest, Arlon. Have a heart. Not all of us can be masters of pointless mind numbing repetition like you. Nothing a liar like yourself has to say is of any interest, Arlon. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
@Deleted
Posts: 0
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 11, 2018 3:14:09 GMT
A feeling/sense of connection or subconscious awareness/subliminal understanding of my surroundings, the world, nature that appears to transcend the bits of individual knowledge learned... or that which arouses, stimulates, or potentiates such perceptions.
Not always pleasant, regularly poignant.
|
|
|
|
Post by rachelcarson1953 on Sept 11, 2018 5:52:25 GMT
This entire thread demonstrates the vast differences in what the word spiritual means to individuals.
To me, it means looking inward, finding your definition of what your life means to you.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
@Deleted
Posts: 0
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 13, 2018 1:13:00 GMT
This entire thread demonstrates the vast differences in what the word spiritual means to individuals. To me, it means looking inward, finding your definition of what your life means to you. I agree and the simplest way of explaining it too. I think it is something beneficial when learning about yourself and your value and gaining new perspectives of the world around you. Spirituality can be practiced in different ways and it's a good sense of relief from attachment to material things. |
|
|
|
Post by captainbryce on Sept 13, 2018 1:21:45 GMT
This entire thread demonstrates the vast differences in what the word spiritual means to individuals. To me, it means looking inward, finding your definition of what your life means to you. Well that is exactly why I asked the question in the first place. Someone else recently asked on a different thread for people to post a video of something "spiritual". When I replied asking him what that meant, his response was to point me to a dictionary link with 5 different definitions, as though that answered the question. To me "spiritual" is one of those nonsensical words that can sort of mean whatever the person using wants it to mean. It's kind of like "mystical" - it doesn't actually mean anything specific and is basically just used as an to attempt to explain something by utilizing vague terminology when the person is unable to rationally explain what they experienced. A spiritual experience can be anything from an adrenaline rush from skydiving, to learning some amazing Jeopardy fact that blew your mind, to watching a magician do a card trick, to tripping on acid, to busting a nut. If someone says they've had a spiritual experience, or a mystical experience, that doesn't really tell you what kind of experience they had, or what actually happened. It only tells you that something made them feel a certain way, and they don't know how to describe the experience. |
|
|
|
Post by goz on Sept 13, 2018 1:45:27 GMT
This entire thread demonstrates the vast differences in what the word spiritual means to individuals. To me, it means looking inward, finding your definition of what your life means to you. Well that exactly why I asked the question in the first place. Someone else recently asked on a different thread for people to post a video of something "spiritual". When I replied asking him what that meant, his response was to point me to a dictionary link with 5 different definitions, as though that answered the question. To me "spiritual" is one of those nonsensical words that can sort of mean whatever the person using wants it to mean. It's kind of like "mystical" - it doesn't actually mean anything specific and is basically just used to attempt to explain something by using vague terminology when the person is unable to rationally explain what they experienced. A spiritual experience can be anything from an adrenaline rush from skydiving, or learning some new Jeopardy fact that blew your mind, to watching a magician do a card trick, to tripping on acid, to busting a nut. If someone says they've had a spiritual experience, or a mystical experience, that doesn't really tell you what kind of experience they had, or what actually happened. It only tells you that something made them feel a certain way, and they don't know how to describe the experience. What annoys me, about the usage of the word, is the very narrow definition that the 'religious' place on the word. They assume that because that is the only parameter (ie faith and religion of whatever kind)through which they PERSONALLY see the world, that 'spiritual' can ONLY have a religious meaning. To me, as I said above, 'spirituality' is a very general term and should encompass anything that is both inexplicable yet important in our lives. To me, it is by far the most interesting term used in the naming of Boards like these, yet it is the least discussed and least 'understood' or at least most diverse of the terms 'Faith' 'Religion' and 'Spirituality'. At the other end of the spectrum is another annoying definition of 'spirituality' which implies 'otherworldly' inferences such as ghosts, witches, aliens devils furphies etc which IMHO debases the meaning of spirituality for thinking intelligent individuals, (much like the acceptance of the other more regulation God Gods Holy Spirit Holy Ghost and Jesus etc). To me this is the basis of my rather amorphous definition and labelling of myself as an agnostic atheist (for want of a better term). It implies that there are aspects of life ( probably the most important ones of birth living and death) that are unknowable and inexplicable yet sometimes we are forced to face these issues in this life and to me my 'spirituality' is my attempts to rationalise, then, in want of rationalisation to make peace with the unknowable insoluable conundrums and conditions at humans' present stage of existence. It is a quest which is fun exciting and entertaining though often sad, horrific and tragic. We each march to our own drum, as it should be. |
|
|
|
Post by captainbryce on Sept 13, 2018 2:13:46 GMT
Well that exactly why I asked the question in the first place. Someone else recently asked on a different thread for people to post a video of something "spiritual". When I replied asking him what that meant, his response was to point me to a dictionary link with 5 different definitions, as though that answered the question. To me "spiritual" is one of those nonsensical words that can sort of mean whatever the person using wants it to mean. It's kind of like "mystical" - it doesn't actually mean anything specific and is basically just used to attempt to explain something by using vague terminology when the person is unable to rationally explain what they experienced. A spiritual experience can be anything from an adrenaline rush from skydiving, or learning some new Jeopardy fact that blew your mind, to watching a magician do a card trick, to tripping on acid, to busting a nut. If someone says they've had a spiritual experience, or a mystical experience, that doesn't really tell you what kind of experience they had, or what actually happened. It only tells you that something made them feel a certain way, and they don't know how to describe the experience. What annoys me, about the usage of the word, is the very narrow definition that the 'religious' place on the word. They assume that because that is the only parameter (ie faith and religion of whatever kind)through which they PERSONALLY see the world, that 'spiritual' can ONLY have a religious meaning. To me, as I said above, 'spirituality' is a very general term and should encompass anything that is both inexplicable yet important in our lives. To me, it is by far the most interesting term used in the naming of Boards like these, yet it is the least discussed and least 'understood' or at least most diverse of the terms 'Faith' 'Religion' and 'Spirituality'. At the other end of the spectrum is another annoying definition of 'spirituality' which implies 'otherworldly' inferences such as ghosts, witches, aliens devils furphies etc which IMHO debases the meaning of spirituality for thinking intelligent individuals, (much like the acceptance of the other more regulation God Gods Holy Spirit Holy Ghost and Jesus etc). To me this is the basis of my rather amorphous definition and labelling of myself as an agnostic atheist (for want of a better term). It implies that there are aspects of life ( probably the most important ones of birth living and death) that are unknowable and inexplicable yet sometimes we are forced to face these issues in this life and to me my 'spirituality' is my attempts to rationalise, then, in want of rationalisation to make peace with the unknowable insoluable conundrums and conditions at humans' present stage of existence. It is a quest which is fun exciting and entertaining though often sad, horrific and tragic. We each march to our own drum, as it should be. Two things: 1) I take minor exception with your definition only because just because something is not understood by the person having the experience doesn't necessarily make it inexplicable. It could just be that they haven't considered all the possible explanations for it, or don't understand the explanation. 2) Can you think of an example of and experience that you would describe as spiritual? It doesn't have to be a personal (or actual) experience, but just a hypothetical one. |
|
|
|
Post by goz on Sept 13, 2018 20:33:48 GMT
What annoys me, about the usage of the word, is the very narrow definition that the 'religious' place on the word. They assume that because that is the only parameter (ie faith and religion of whatever kind)through which they PERSONALLY see the world, that 'spiritual' can ONLY have a religious meaning. To me, as I said above, 'spirituality' is a very general term and should encompass anything that is both inexplicable yet important in our lives. To me, it is by far the most interesting term used in the naming of Boards like these, yet it is the least discussed and least 'understood' or at least most diverse of the terms 'Faith' 'Religion' and 'Spirituality'. At the other end of the spectrum is another annoying definition of 'spirituality' which implies 'otherworldly' inferences such as ghosts, witches, aliens devils furphies etc which IMHO debases the meaning of spirituality for thinking intelligent individuals, (much like the acceptance of the other more regulation God Gods Holy Spirit Holy Ghost and Jesus etc). To me this is the basis of my rather amorphous definition and labelling of myself as an agnostic atheist (for want of a better term). It implies that there are aspects of life ( probably the most important ones of birth living and death) that are unknowable and inexplicable yet sometimes we are forced to face these issues in this life and to me my 'spirituality' is my attempts to rationalise, then, in want of rationalisation to make peace with the unknowable insoluable conundrums and conditions at humans' present stage of existence. It is a quest which is fun exciting and entertaining though often sad, horrific and tragic. We each march to our own drum, as it should be. Two things: 1) I take minor exception with your definition only because just because something is not understood by the person having the experience doesn't necessarily make it inexplicable. It could just be that they haven't considered all the possible explanations for it, or don't understand the explanation. 2) Can you think of an example of and experience that you would describe as spiritual? It doesn't have to be a personal (or actual) experience, but just a hypothetical one. 1) Whether there is life after death is by definition inexplicable. NO-ONE 'knows' for sure. 2) I have a very personal one. Again it involves life. The birth of my third child against all the odds (six miscarriages) because I knew/hoped/felt/wanted her to come to life. She eventually did and has been a great joy in my life after the tragedy of losing so many other lives. Again to me this is inexplicable, yet it happened. |
|
|
|
Post by captainbryce on Sept 13, 2018 23:31:50 GMT
Two things: 1) I take minor exception with your definition only because just because something is not understood by the person having the experience doesn't necessarily make it inexplicable. It could just be that they haven't considered all the possible explanations for it, or don't understand the explanation. 2) Can you think of an example of and experience that you would describe as spiritual? It doesn't have to be a personal (or actual) experience, but just a hypothetical one. 1) Whether there is life after death is by definition inexplicable. NO-ONE 'knows' for sure. 2) I have a very personal one. Again it involves life. The birth of my third child against all the odds (six miscarriages) because I knew/hoped/felt/wanted her to come to life. She eventually did and has been a great joy in my life after the tragedy of losing so many other lives. Again to me this is inexplicable, yet it happened. 1) Whether or not there is life after death is a question that hasn't been answered, just like the question of does God exist hasn't been answered. There is no reason to believe either of those statements have a positive indication (scientifically speaking), but they are also just philosophical concepts. Questions that can't be answered aren't necessarily inexplicable because they are unknowns. They can be explained in any number of ways, we simply have no way to tell which explanation is true. I supposed I was referring to an actual event or occurrence (which seems to me the most common usage of the term). 2) Not to get too much into your personal experience, but has it ever occurred to you that what happened to you was not "natural", but by some supernatural means, or divine will? Or do you attribute what happened to some actual scientifically plausible explanation? |
|
|
|
Post by goz on Sept 13, 2018 23:47:06 GMT
1) Whether there is life after death is by definition inexplicable. NO-ONE 'knows' for sure. 2) I have a very personal one. Again it involves life. The birth of my third child against all the odds (six miscarriages) because I knew/hoped/felt/wanted her to come to life. She eventually did and has been a great joy in my life after the tragedy of losing so many other lives. Again to me this is inexplicable, yet it happened. 1) Whether or not there is life after death is a question that hasn't been answered, just like the question of does God exist hasn't been answered. There is no reason to believe either of those statements have a positive indication (scientifically speaking), but they are also just philosophical concepts. Questions that can't be answered aren't necessarily inexplicable because they are unknowns. They can be explained in any number of ways, we simply have no way to tell which explanation is true. I supposed I was referring to an actual event or occurrence (which seems to me the most common usage of the term). 2) Not to get too much into your personal experience, but has it ever occurred to you that what happened to you was not "natural", but by some supernatural means, or divine will? Or do you attribute what happened to some actual scientifically plausible explanation? 1) you are using semantics to obfuscate the point. 2) I don't know. My daughter came about by scientifically plausible means. My knowledge of her prior to her arrival remains inexplicable. |
|
|
|
Post by captainbryce on Sept 14, 2018 0:20:10 GMT
1) Whether or not there is life after death is a question that hasn't been answered, just like the question of does God exist hasn't been answered. There is no reason to believe either of those statements have a positive indication (scientifically speaking), but they are also just philosophical concepts. Questions that can't be answered aren't necessarily inexplicable because they are unknowns. They can be explained in any number of ways, we simply have no way to tell which explanation is true. I supposed I was referring to an actual event or occurrence (which seems to me the most common usage of the term). 2) Not to get too much into your personal experience, but has it ever occurred to you that what happened to you was not "natural", but by some supernatural means, or divine will? Or do you attribute what happened to some actual scientifically plausible explanation? 1) you are using semantics to obfuscate the point. 2) I don't know. My daughter came about by scientifically plausible means. My knowledge of her prior to her arrival remains inexplicable.I don't know what that means. You just complained about me using an argument from semantics, but you just threw out a completely nonsensical answer. I assume you mean that your daughter being born has a scientific explanation that you just don't understand? Perhaps? |
|
|
|
Post by goz on Sept 14, 2018 0:28:05 GMT
1) you are using semantics to obfuscate the point. 2) I don't know. My daughter came about by scientifically plausible means. My knowledge of her prior to her arrival remains inexplicable.I don't know what that means. You just complained about me using an argument from semantics, but you just threw out a completely nonsensical answer. I assume you mean that your daughter being born has a scientific explanation that you just don't understand? Perhaps? No I don't mean that. |
|
|
|
Post by captainbryce on Sept 14, 2018 0:31:48 GMT
I don't know what that means. You just complained about me using an argument from semantics, but you just threw out a completely nonsensical answer. I assume you mean that your daughter being born has a scientific explanation that you just don't understand? Perhaps? No I don't mean that. Then what do you mean? Nobody has knowledge of anyone until they are born. So I don't understand the logic of your previous statement. |
|
