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Post by goz on Sept 14, 2018 0:36:47 GMT
Then what do you mean? Nobody has knowledge of anyone until they are born. So I don't understand the logic of your previous statement. Well, I did, so it is inexplicable. |
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Post by captainbryce on Sept 14, 2018 0:38:00 GMT
Then what do you mean? Nobody has knowledge of anyone until they are born. So I don't understand the logic of your previous statement. Well, I did, so it is inexplicable. What specific knowledge of her would you say you had? |
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Post by goz on Sept 14, 2018 0:47:37 GMT
Well, I did, so it is inexplicable. What specific knowledge of her would you say you had? As you know I am one of the least religious people on here which is why I am consciously delineating the difference between supernatural ( or divine ) with 'spiritual'. I don't really believe in a soul butt there is something about the 'essence' of individuals (for want of a better word -yes semantics again..it is tricky to apply a specific meaning to a nuanced concept in words) It sounds fanciful butt I had a very clear knowledge that there was another 'personal essence'(life spark/persona/...pick a term) waiting to come to life. Again this is why I am an agnostic atheist because I think that there ARE some things that are inexplicable and maybe unknowable. |
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Post by captainbryce on Sept 14, 2018 1:18:10 GMT
What specific knowledge of her would you say you had? As you know I am one of the least religious people on here which is why I am consciously delineating the difference between supernatural ( or divine ) with 'spiritual'. I don't really believe in a soul butt there is something about the 'essence' of individuals (for want of a better word -yes semantics again..it is tricky to apply a specific meaning to a nuanced concept in words) It sounds fanciful butt I had a very clear knowledge that there was another 'personal essence'(life spark/persona/...pick a term) waiting to come to life. Again this is why I am an agnostic atheist because I think that there ARE some things that are inexplicable and maybe unknowable. But do you not think that there is a perfectly plausible, natural, scientific explanation for why you had these feelings or “knowledge” as you call it? I mean I guess what I don’t understand is why assign a vague “spiritual” meaning to it if it doesn’t require one? And just for some framework, to me there is no difference between someone saying “spiritual”, “mystical”, “magical”, “supernatural”, or “divine”. They all mean the same thing as far as I’m concerned - NOTHING. So when you try to parse and say “oh I mean spiritual not supernatural”, it doesn’t really carry any weight because they all imply unproven concepts. |
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Post by goz on Sept 14, 2018 3:00:27 GMT
As you know I am one of the least religious people on here which is why I am consciously delineating the difference between supernatural ( or divine ) with 'spiritual'. I don't really believe in a soul butt there is something about the 'essence' of individuals (for want of a better word -yes semantics again..it is tricky to apply a specific meaning to a nuanced concept in words) It sounds fanciful butt I had a very clear knowledge that there was another 'personal essence'(life spark/persona/...pick a term) waiting to come to life. Again this is why I am an agnostic atheist because I think that there ARE some things that are inexplicable and maybe unknowable. But do you not think that there is a perfectly plausible, natural, scientific explanation for why you had these feelings or “knowledge” as you call it? I mean I guess what I don’t understand is why assign a vague “spiritual” meaning to it if it doesn’t require one? And just for some framework, to me there is no difference between someone saying “spiritual”, “mystical”, “magical”, “supernatural”, or “divine”. They all mean the same thing as far as I’m concerned - NOTHING. So when you try to parse and say “oh I mean spiritual not supernatural”, it doesn’t really carry any weight because they all imply unproven concepts. Again I will say that I don't know. I guess you and I are really discussing here what I call inexplicable and unknowable and you call 'unproven concepts' or more succinctly 'nothing'. I guess I ascribe the term 'spiritual' for want of a better term because to me it is not mystical or divine or magical or supernatural. All those other words have connotations with which I am not happy. However there are things which I don't understand or comprehend and to which I may never fully know the answer. However, there is 'something'. You can call it 'life force', 'personal essence' 'spark' 'me-ness ' the religious call it soul and to me it is the greatest of questions. I don't believe in life after death, I believe the brain dies and that is it. I believe in a natural and scientific explanations of almost all things...except this.. the greatest conundrum of all as you can't know what follows death or precedes life. |
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Post by rachelcarson1953 on Sept 14, 2018 4:02:10 GMT
But do you not think that there is a perfectly plausible, natural, scientific explanation for why you had these feelings or “knowledge” as you call it? I mean I guess what I don’t understand is why assign a vague “spiritual” meaning to it if it doesn’t require one? And just for some framework, to me there is no difference between someone saying “spiritual”, “mystical”, “magical”, “supernatural”, or “divine”. They all mean the same thing as far as I’m concerned - NOTHING. So when you try to parse and say “oh I mean spiritual not supernatural”, it doesn’t really carry any weight because they all imply unproven concepts. Again I will say that I don't know. I guess you and I are really discussing here what I call inexplicable and unknowable and you call 'unproven concepts' or more succinctly 'nothing'. I guess I ascribe the term 'spiritual' for want of a better term because to me it is not mystical or divine or magical or supernatural. All those other words have connotations with which I am not happy. However there are things which I don't understand or comprehend and to which I may never fully know the answer. However, there is 'something'. You can call it 'life force', 'personal essence' 'spark' 'me-ness ' the religious call it soul and to me it is the greatest of questions. I don't believe in life after death, I believe the brain dies and that is it. I believe in a natural and scientific explanations of almost all things...except this.. the greatest conundrum of all as you can't know what follows death or precedes life. How about the word 'transcendent'? Listening to Bach played on a pipe organ while sitting in the ranks of pipes and feeling the music. Sends chills up my spine. Or standing in a museum looking at an original Albrecht Dürer - that is a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity. Those moments are transcendent to me, they transcend the ordinary daily experience. I'm as atheist as they come, but the marvel at what Nature is, and sometimes what a human has created... It doesn't matter if there is or is not life after death. I would use the word soul, even though it isn't immortal. Five years after being diagnosed with cancer, I wasn't dead, I was able to hike two miles of incline through a bamboo forest to sit at the base of the most beautiful waterfall I had ever seen. Amazing. Spiritual. Transcendent. |
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