|
|
Post by CoolJGS☺ on Sept 11, 2018 20:19:13 GMT
It's a tree. There's no telling how many trees Jesus killed as a carpenter and this was for a more important purpose and especially since the tree was literally not producing any fruit. It was worthless and hence the reason for its fitting symbolism. The Greek word used for “carpenter” (tekton) could also be translated more broadly as “artisan,” “contractor,” or “handyman.” Was Jesus Really a Carpenter?Do any of those indicate he wouldn't cut up wood? |
|
Eλευθερί
Junior Member
@eleutheri
Posts: 3,710
Likes: 1,670
|
Post by Eλευθερί on Sept 11, 2018 20:19:31 GMT
To be honest, I am more interested in how Christians interpret this part:
Does the "you" mean only the disciples? Or does it apply to any Christian?
And if it applies to any Christian, why is their batting average so poor*?
(*for serious requests, like cures for cancer or winning wars or getting elected or getting into the pants of the hottest kid in class)
|
|
Eλευθερί
Junior Member
@eleutheri
Posts: 3,710
Likes: 1,670
|
Post by Eλευθερί on Sept 11, 2018 20:23:36 GMT
Anywhere in there did it actually say that Jesus did what he did out of anger or that he was mad at the tree? What does the verb "curse" mean to you? |
|
|
|
Post by Vegas on Sept 11, 2018 20:26:37 GMT
To be honest, I am more interested in how Christians interpret this part: Does the "you" mean only the disciples? Or does it apply to any Christian? And if it applies to any Christian, why is their batting average so poor*? (*for serious requests, like cures for cancer or winning wars or getting elected or getting into the pants of the hottest kid in class) ... This part? Christians are on their own answering... And if anyone cites "One time, I saw a guy heal a dude whose one leg was slightly longer than another..."  I will laugh you out of existence. |
|
|
|
Post by Vegas on Sept 11, 2018 20:43:55 GMT
Anywhere in there did it actually say that Jesus did what he did out of anger or that he was mad at the tree? What does the verb "curse" mean to you? That doesn't involve being angry at the time of said issuing. If the curse.... Was the word "curse" ever used in your verbatim story?.... was intentionally made to be a metaphor.. than that would imply a pre-meditated action.. not one made solely as an emotional response. |
|
Eλευθερί
Junior Member
@eleutheri
Posts: 3,710
Likes: 1,670
|
Post by Eλευθερί on Sept 11, 2018 20:56:13 GMT
What does the verb "curse" mean to you? That doesn't involve being angry at the time of said issuing. Lord, have mercy. Merriam-Webster's Collegiate Dictionary 11th ed:curse (verb, transitive) - 2. To call upon divine or supernatural power to send injury upon 3. To bring great evil upon: AFFLICT The American Heritage Dictionary 3rd ed:curse (verb) - 1. To invoke evil upon, 3. To bring a curse upon curse (noun) - 1a. An appeal for evil or misfortune to befall a person or thing 1b. Evil or misfortune resulting from or as if from a curse |
|
|
|
Post by Vegas on Sept 11, 2018 20:59:44 GMT
The act of issuing a curse.That doesn't involve being angry at the time of said issuing. Lord, have mercy. Merriam-Webster's Collegiate Dictionary 11th ed:curse (verb, transitive) - 2. To call upon divine or supernatural power to send injury upon 3. To bring great evil upon: AFFLICT The American Heritage Dictionary 3rd ed:curse (verb) - 1. To invoke evil upon, 3. To bring a curse upon curse (noun) - 1a. An appeal for evil or misfortune to befall a person or thing 1b. Evil or misfortune resulting from or as if from a curse Aannnnnnnnnddddd….. "out of anger" is nowhere involved in that definition. Mercy, indeed.  |
|
Eλευθερί
Junior Member
@eleutheri
Posts: 3,710
Likes: 1,670
|
Post by Eλευθερί on Sept 11, 2018 21:05:33 GMT
Lord, have mercy. Merriam-Webster's Collegiate Dictionary 11th ed:curse (verb, transitive) - 2. To call upon divine or supernatural power to send injury upon 3. To bring great evil upon: AFFLICT The American Heritage Dictionary 3rd ed:curse (verb) - 1. To invoke evil upon, 3. To bring a curse upon curse (noun) - 1a. An appeal for evil or misfortune to befall a person or thing 1b. Evil or misfortune resulting from or as if from a curse Aannnnnnnnnddddd….. "out of anger" is nowhere involved in that definition. Mercy, indeed. Nowhere does it say that Jesus was not angry. Jesus was allegedly a man. Typically, curses are issued out of anger. |
|
|
|
Post by Vegas on Sept 11, 2018 21:16:36 GMT
Aannnnnnnnnddddd….. "out of anger" is nowhere involved in that definition. Mercy, indeed. Nowhere does it say that Jesus was not angry. Jesus was allegedly a man. Typically, curses are issued out of anger. Nowhere in it does it say that he was riding a unicycle at the time.... no need to improvise one. Like I said.. You want to see it as Jesus killing a tree out of anger?.. So be it: It says more about you than it actually says about Jesus.  Just don't state blindly that's how it "happened" to others as "fact". |
|
|
|
Post by amyghost on Sept 11, 2018 21:17:04 GMT
As with most things in The Bible.... The point of the story is probably considered to be more important than the details.  And as far as the details go... you should at least get them right and/or not embellish them when retelling the story: Anywhere in there did it actually say that Jesus did what he did out of anger or that he was mad at the tree?
|
|
|
|
Post by Vegas on Sept 11, 2018 21:23:50 GMT
People, one would assume Jesus included, don't generally go about cursing things when they're happy. And the story begs the question of why Jesus, a man with the power to cure blindness and raise the dead, didn't simply use his capacity for miracle working to cause an out-of-season tree to bear fruitEXACTLY!!! Why would a guy who could turn rocks into figs if he wanted to actually be angry at a tree for not producing any when he was hungry? He chose to have the tree wither to serve as a metaphor... not because he was angry at it. Creating a metaphor implies fore-thought.. not anger. |
|
|
|
Post by amyghost on Sept 11, 2018 21:26:49 GMT
People, one would assume Jesus included, don't generally go about cursing things when they're happy. And the story begs the question of why Jesus, a man with the power to cure blindness and raise the dead, didn't simply use his capacity for miracle working to cause an out-of-season tree to bear fruitEXACTLY!!! Why would a guy who could turn rocks into figs if he wanted to actually be angry at a tree for not producing any when he was hungry? He chose to have the tree wither to serve as a metaphor... not because he was angry at it. Creating a metaphor implies fore-thought.. not anger. Er, no, not 'exactly'. What on earth was he creating a metaphor for? And again, why would a man allegedly committed to peace and goodwill destroy life, even plant life, needlessly to prove some abstract point? |
|
|
|
Post by Vegas on Sept 11, 2018 21:27:56 GMT
After all, he must have known the tree was not in bearing season--all the more reason to assume he was 'pissed off', because he wanted figs at the wrong time and was unable to obtain them.
As for your edit... That's actually less of a reason for him to be mad at the tree... Why would he assume that there would be figs out of season?...and actually angry that there weren't? |
|
|
|
Post by CoolJGS☺ on Sept 11, 2018 21:34:15 GMT
Anywhere in there did it actually say that Jesus did what he did out of anger or that he was mad at the tree? What does the verb "curse" mean to you? curses don’t have to be based on anger. A curse is merely a bad outcome for something |
|
|
|
Post by Vegas on Sept 11, 2018 21:35:22 GMT
EXACTLY!!! Why would a guy who could turn rocks into figs if he wanted to actually be angry at a tree for not producing any when he was hungry? He chose to have the tree wither to serve as a metaphor... not because he was angry at it. Creating a metaphor implies fore-thought.. not anger. Er, no, not 'exactly'. What on earth was he creating a metaphor for? And again, why would a man allegedly committed to peace and goodwill destroy life, even plant life, needlessly to prove some abstract point? For the record: You not understanding the purpose of a metaphor doesn't mean that it doesn't exist... Up to this point, the meaning of the action hasn't been questioned by anyone... Please try to catch up to the rest of the class.  Once again, as it has already been pointed out.. Maybe the act of killing a tree might not be as bad as an offense as you make it out to be... especially to a carpenter. |
|
|
|
Post by amyghost on Sept 11, 2018 21:35:30 GMT
After all, he must have known the tree was not in bearing season--all the more reason to assume he was 'pissed off', because he wanted figs at the wrong time and was unable to obtain them.
As for your edit... That's actually less of a reason for him to be mad at the tree... Why would he assume that there would be figs out of season?...and actually angry that there weren't? Good question, which implies he acted irrationally. And I'm still wondering what this supposed 'metaphor' was that necessitated killing the tree--an even more striking act when committed by a man whom we might reasonably suppose would be committed to preserving life, all life, rather than simply destroying it wantonly. |
|
|
|
Post by CoolJGS☺ on Sept 11, 2018 21:36:47 GMT
EXACTLY!!! Why would a guy who could turn rocks into figs if he wanted to actually be angry at a tree for not producing any when he was hungry? He chose to have the tree wither to serve as a metaphor... not because he was angry at it. Creating a metaphor implies fore-thought.. not anger. Er, no, not 'exactly'. What on earth was he creating a metaphor for? And again, why would a man allegedly committed to peace and goodwill destroy life, even plant life, needlessly to prove some abstract point? proof that the godless often don’t understand symbolism, foreshadowing and metaphors in the Bible. I guess that’s why they think Song of Solomon is Bible porn. |
|
|
|
Post by Vegas on Sept 11, 2018 21:38:45 GMT
Er, no, not 'exactly'. What on earth was he creating a metaphor for? And again, why would a man allegedly committed to peace and goodwill destroy life, even plant life, needlessly to prove some abstract point? proof that the godless often don’t understand symbolism, foreshadowing and metaphors in the Bible. I guess that’s why they think Song of Solomon is Bible porn. Hey.. "My breasts are like towers!".... is pretty damned hot.  |
|
|
|
Post by CoolJGS☺ on Sept 11, 2018 21:38:53 GMT
As for your edit... That's actually less of a reason for him to be mad at the tree... Why would he assume that there would be figs out of season?...and actually angry that there weren't? Good question, which implies he acted irrationally. And I'm still wondering what this supposed 'metaphor' was that necessitated killing the tree--an even more striking act when committed by a man whom we might reasonably suppose would be committed to preserving life, all life, rather than simply destroying it wantonly. lol at the notion Jesus doesn’t eat or chop down stuff. |
|
|
|
Post by amyghost on Sept 11, 2018 21:41:31 GMT
Er, no, not 'exactly'. What on earth was he creating a metaphor for? And again, why would a man allegedly committed to peace and goodwill destroy life, even plant life, needlessly to prove some abstract point? For the record: You not understanding the purpose of a metaphor doesn't mean that it doesn't exist... Up to this point, the meaning of the action hasn't been questioned by anyone... Please try to catch up to the rest of the class. Once again, as it has already been pointed out.. Maybe the act of killing a tree might not be as bad as an offense as you make it out to be... especially to a carpenter. You haven't explained what 'metaphor' it was his destruction of the tree was meant to demonstrate. Try catching up to the rest of the class yourself, insofar as if you're going to offer up some explanation for this act, be able to do so as opposed to mindlessly repeating yourself. I'm questioning the meaning of the action, and apparently you can't come up with one. And none of this gives any reason for why a man, committed to the practice of peace, presumably with all living things, would destroy a living thing for no demonstrable purpose. |
|
