Eλευθερί
Junior Member
@eleutheri
Posts: 3,710
Likes: 1,670
|
Post by Eλευθερί on Sept 12, 2018 1:26:29 GMT
Didn't He curse the tree because it had leaves (therefore it should have also had fruit)? It looked good from a distance, but examine it and it was barren. Kind of a lesson to not be showy and appear that to be following God when you are not (meaning being deceptive/hypocritical)? That's a good perspective too. I picked up the metaphor of the fig tree as representing life and in a sense the fig tree that Jesus went up to was no longer representing what it was meant for so there was no longer any purpose for it. The fig tree can also represent us, or more specifically the Jews at that time, because even though they practiced religious law and even appeared religious they lost the purpose of why they were worshiping God. They weren't "spiritually fruitful" (which indicates faithfulness, love, kindness or anything representing God) Similar to how the fig tree was "unfruitful" and no longer representing or giving what it was meant for. I think this story also specifically describes God's judgement towards people who lack this purpose in their so-called "good" actions, and the term "curse" is more closely related to the act of casting judgement on something and not exactly swearing or yelling at it. The comment Jesus makes about throwing the mountain into the sea demonstrates how much we as human beings lack faith and how much we aren't able to fully comprehend the power of faith. But even fig trees have more purposes than just producing fruit. Perhaps this was an aged tree past its fruit-bearing years. |
|
|
|
Post by CoolJGS☺ on Sept 12, 2018 1:34:15 GMT
Didn't He curse the tree because it had leaves (therefore it should have also had fruit)? It looked good from a distance, but examine it and it was barren. Kind of a lesson to not be showy and appear that to be following God when you are not (meaning being deceptive/hypocritical)? Exactly and it took a religious person to get it. It was even bigger than that since it was directly related to his rejection as the Messiah by those that had the appearance of spirituality - The religious leaders. He was dooming them and saying that his disciples had the ability to school them as he routinely did. |
|
|
|
Post by Vegas on Sept 12, 2018 1:34:29 GMT
Didn't He curse the tree because it had leaves (therefore it should have also had fruit)? Kind of a lesson to not be showy and appear that to be following God when you are not (meaning being deceptive)? Jesus.. No wonder you can't read The Bible without fucking its shit up... You can't go two seconds without completely misrepresenting what you read. At no point did I say that the word wasn't applicable... I just suggested that you can't be a stickler to the definition of a word that isn't specifically being used as if it was... Also... That you are just misrepresenting what that actual definition is by adding your own "It has to be out of anger" clause....  |
|
|
|
Post by CoolJGS☺ on Sept 12, 2018 1:36:30 GMT
Aannnnnnnnnddddd….. "out of anger" is nowhere involved in that definition. Mercy, indeed. Holy Hell...if he is invoking evil or cursing others or causing injury without even being angry then does he qualify as some sort of sociopath  No one should pas judgement on anything with the requirement they be angry about it. They can be for sure, but it is not a necessary component of judgement. |
|
|
|
Post by Aj_June on Sept 12, 2018 1:42:24 GMT
Didn't He curse the tree because it had leaves (therefore it should have also had fruit)? It looked good from a distance, but examine it and it was barren. Kind of a lesson to not be showy and appear that to be following God when you are not (meaning being deceptive/hypocritical)? Ding ding ding, we have a winner! Bear fruit (produce) or die. It's not enough to just look good. KLS's explanation also occurred to me even before I read her post. But something more crossed my mind.
While religious people will readily disagree with me at the moment, one has to acknowledge that such metaphors may be mistranslated by even many religious people.
|
|
Eλευθερί
Junior Member
@eleutheri
Posts: 3,710
Likes: 1,670
|
Post by Eλευθερί on Sept 12, 2018 1:42:58 GMT
You can't go two seconds without completely misrepresenting what you read. At no point did I say that the word wasn't applicable... I just suggested that you can't be a stickler to the definition of a word that isn't specifically being used as if it was... Was the word "curse" ever used in your verbatim story?.... |
|
|
|
Post by Vegas on Sept 12, 2018 1:44:03 GMT
Aannnnnnnnnddddd….. "out of anger" is nowhere involved in that definition. Mercy, indeed. Holy Hell...if he is invoking evil or cursing others or causing injury without even being angry then does he qualify as some sort of sociopath I don't know how much of "invoking evil or cursing others or causing injury" actually applies to a tree... I mean, killing the weeds in your garden doesn't really make you a mass murderer... ...and you're, hopefully, not actually angry at any of the weeds. So... I'll just assume that you are being hyperbolically sarcastic for humor's sake. |
|
|
|
Post by Vegas on Sept 12, 2018 1:48:44 GMT
You can't go two seconds without completely misrepresenting what you read. At no point did I say that the word wasn't applicable... I just suggested that you can't be a stickler to the definition of a word that isn't specifically being used as if it was... Was the word "curse" ever used in your verbatim story?.... Yes.. I wrote that just after you listed the definition of "curse".... I never suggested that it couldn't be used to describe what Jesus ultimately did... or that it didn't apply. Just pointing out that the specific definition of the word might not be completely relevant as that word wasn't specifically used by the author. |
|
Eλευθερί
Junior Member
@eleutheri
Posts: 3,710
Likes: 1,670
|
Post by Eλευθερί on Sept 12, 2018 1:52:05 GMT
Yes.. I wrote that just after you listed the definition of "curse".... I never suggested that it couldn't be used to describe what Jesus ultimately did... or that it didn't apply. Just pointing out that the specific definition of the word might not be completely relevant as that word wasn't specifically used by the author. Ah, so you're an expert on the Gospel, are you? Have you actually read it? MARK 11:21 |
|
|
|
Post by amyghost on Sept 12, 2018 2:02:04 GMT
In other words, you have no idea of what this metaphor is you keep prattling about, and you can't explain Jesus' actions in this instance.
You're right--I'm not in the same class. I left the kindergarten you're still playing in some time ago.
And your attempts to evade answering these questions says a lot more about you than any of the limp rationales you keep tossing up do.
Damn, you are a dumb twat. Even the guy that I was originally "arguing" with admits that its a metaphor.... That's the purpose of the story. THAT would be the purpose that you so blindly refuse to see... THAT explains his actions, Twatty McTwaterson.
So what's the metaphor? You keep saying it's 'self-evident', so it oughta be a cinch for such a Jesus scholar as yourself to explain. So...enlighten me, bro. Shed your profound knowledge and insight into biblical parable on me. I'll remember not to hold my breath though, if that's okay with you. |
|
|
|
Post by Vegas on Sept 12, 2018 2:02:29 GMT
Yes.. I wrote that just after you listed the definition of "curse".... I never suggested that it couldn't be used to describe what Jesus ultimately did... or that it didn't apply. Just pointing out that the specific definition of the word might not be completely relevant as that word wasn't specifically used by the author.Ah, so you're an expert on the Gospel, are you? Never said I was... Just not an asshole who has too add shit to a story so I can make a moronic point. You mean the story from a different author that you didn't cite?  Once again... Because you're a moron... I never said that it wasn't applicable. Just that it doesn't inherently define his action as being done in anger... as that IS NOT PART OF THE DEFINITION. |
|
|
|
Post by amyghost on Sept 12, 2018 2:04:03 GMT
LOL at the fact that you have to keep evading the question because you can't answer it to your satisfaction. And I said 'wantonly', nitwit. Meaning he destroyed it for no demonstrable reason, simply for the sake of doing so, not because he needed the dead tree for any life-sustaining purpose. There was a demonstrable reason. You just don't know it. I imagine there are many libraries filled to the brim with the knowledge you don't have, so this is no big deal. Well, since you seem to be touting yourself as some sort of one-man distillation of all that knowledge I don't have, lay it on me as to what the 'demonstrable reason' was. If you know it, that is. |
|
|
|
Post by Vegas on Sept 12, 2018 2:04:17 GMT
Damn, you are a dumb twat. Even the guy that I was originally "arguing" with admits that its a metaphor.... That's the purpose of the story. THAT would be the purpose that you so blindly refuse to see... THAT explains his actions, Twatty McTwaterson.
So what's the metaphor? You keep saying it's 'self-evident', so it oughta be a cinch for such a Jesus scholar as yourself to explain. So...enlighten me, bro. Shed your profound knowledge and insight into biblical parable on me. I'll remember not to hold my breath though, if that's okay with you. Jesus... It's only been explained already by two other people in this thread... That really just makes you a truly moronic twat. |
|
|
|
Post by amyghost on Sept 12, 2018 2:05:12 GMT
Ah, so you're an expert on the Gospel, are you? Never said I was... Just not an asshole who has too add shit to a story so I can make a moronic point. You mean the story from a different author that you didn't cite? Once again... Because you're a moron... I never said that it wasn't applicable.
Just that it doesn't inherently define his action as being done in anger... as that IS NOT PART OF THE DEFINITION.Well, that was clear as mud. |
|
|
|
Post by amyghost on Sept 12, 2018 2:07:02 GMT
So what's the metaphor? You keep saying it's 'self-evident', so it oughta be a cinch for such a Jesus scholar as yourself to explain. So...enlighten me, bro. Shed your profound knowledge and insight into biblical parable on me. I'll remember not to hold my breath though, if that's okay with you. Jesus... It's only been explained already by two other people in this thread... That really just makes you a truly moronic twat. Well, I think I prefer that to being an epic dickhead who keeps chirping about that 'self-evident' explanation for the 'metaphor' that's so self-evident he can't explain it  . |
|
|
|
Post by Vegas on Sept 12, 2018 2:07:18 GMT
Well, that was clear as mud. I'm sure you think that about water, as well. Air probably confuses you. |
|
|
|
Post by Vegas on Sept 12, 2018 2:09:51 GMT
Jesus... It's only been explained already by two other people in this thread... That really just makes you a truly moronic twat. Well, I think I prefer that to being an epic dickhead who keeps chirping about that 'self-evident' explanation for the 'metaphor' that's so self-evident he can't explain it . Anyone else starting to think that Rabbit had a sex change?  This moron is just a stupid. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
@Deleted
Posts: 0
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 12, 2018 2:12:42 GMT
That's a good perspective too. I picked up the metaphor of the fig tree as representing life and in a sense the fig tree that Jesus went up to was no longer representing what it was meant for so there was no longer any purpose for it. The fig tree can also represent us, or more specifically the Jews at that time, because even though they practiced religious law and even appeared religious they lost the purpose of why they were worshiping God. They weren't "spiritually fruitful" (which indicates faithfulness, love, kindness or anything representing God) Similar to how the fig tree was "unfruitful" and no longer representing or giving what it was meant for. I think this story also specifically describes God's judgement towards people who lack this purpose in their so-called "good" actions, and the term "curse" is more closely related to the act of casting judgement on something and not exactly swearing or yelling at it. The comment Jesus makes about throwing the mountain into the sea demonstrates how much we as human beings lack faith and how much we aren't able to fully comprehend the power of faith. But even fig trees have more purposes than just producing fruit. Perhaps this was an aged tree past its fruit-bearing years. I think the purpose of fig trees in a metaphorical sense seems to be the most dominant in the Bible, especially how it is compared to Israel as a nation and God's judgement towards them. When fig trees are alive and healthy then so is the nation, and the opposite also applies when the fig trees are barren or dying then so is the nation.
"For the LORD your God is bringing you into a good land, a land of brooks and fountains and springs that flow through the valleys and hills; a land of wheat, barley, vines, fig trees, and pomegranates; a land of olive oil and honey;"
"Look at the fig tree and all the trees. When they sprout leaves, you can see for yourselves and know that summer is near. Even so, when you see these things happening, you know that the kingdom of God is near. "I tell you the truth; this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened."
"I will send the sword, famine and plague against them and I will make them like poor figs that are so bad they cannot be eaten."
"Then the LORD asked me, "What do you see, Jeremiah?" "Figs," I answered. "The good ones are very good, but the poor ones are so bad they cannot be eaten." Then the word of the LORD came to me: "This is what the LORD, the God of Israel, says: `Like these good figs, I regard as good the exiles from Judah, whom I sent away from this place to the land of the Babylonians."
"When I found Israel, it was like finding grapes in the desert; when I saw your fathers, it was like seeing the early fruit on the fig tree. But when they came to Baal Peor, they consecrated themselves to that shameful idol and became as vile as the thing they loved." |
|
|
|
Post by amyghost on Sept 12, 2018 2:13:50 GMT
Well, I think I prefer that to being an epic dickhead who keeps chirping about that 'self-evident' explanation for the 'metaphor' that's so self-evident he can't explain it . Anyone else starting to think that Rabbit had a sex change? This moron is just a stupid. Coming from the scholar who can't explain that 'self-evident metaphor' (or even quote the alleged 'other two explanations for it' that have --he claims--appeared on this thread) no matter how many times he's asked. Being called a 'moron' by the likes of you is like being called 'ugly' by Frankenstein's monster . The spoiler was an error, but since it's as empty as your head, and rhetoric, I'll let it stand for 'symbolic' reasons. BTW: That's a good perspective too. I picked up the metaphor of the fig tree as representing life and in a sense the fig tree that Jesus went up to was no longer representing what it was meant for so there was no longer any purpose for it. The fig tree can also represent us, or more specifically the Jews at that time, because even though they practiced religious law and even appeared religious they lost the purpose of why they were worshiping God. They weren't "spiritually fruitful" (which indicates faithfulness, love, kindness or anything representing God) Similar to how the fig tree was "unfruitful" and no longer representing or giving what it was meant for. I think this story also specifically describes God's judgement towards people who lack this purpose in their so-called "good" actions, and the term "curse" is more closely related to the act of casting judgement on something and not exactly swearing or yelling at it. The comment Jesus makes about throwing the mountain into the sea demonstrates how much we as human beings lack faith and how much we aren't able to fully comprehend the power of faith.One of those quotes you can't seem to find...the other one is just above in this thread. Problem is, all that attractive gobbleydegook has very little to do with the story proper of Jesus cursing the fig tree for its lack of fruit, and Jesus--who certainly loved to spin a parable, and was seldom shy about letting his followers know he was doing so (or chastising them as stupid when they didn't get it, though I don't think he called them 'twats' precisely) gives no indication in the text that his actions are in any way meant to be taken as such. He pulls the face-saving business of letcuring his disciples on the efficacy of prayer the next day, but I'm not willing to let the two halves of the story off as a single event. It's plain enough Jesus acted in anger, and likely enough felt it necessary to use an otherwise embarrassing gaffe as a teaching tool. It's a straightforward little glimpse into Jesus' fallible humanity that Christers have to paper over with lots of 'deep thinks' rhetoric to obscure the fact that their hero was a man, with the faults, failings, foibles and temperament of a man. Not a god. Just a man. |
|
|
|
Post by Vegas on Sept 12, 2018 2:19:26 GMT
Anyone else starting to think that Rabbit had a sex change? This moron is just a stupid. Coming from the scholar who can't explain that 'self-evident metaphor' (or even quote the alleged 'other two explanations for it' that have --he claims--appeared on this thread) no matter how many times he's asked.Hey, moron... Read the thread above yours... It's being explained to you for a third time, by yet another poster... Would you like me to just quote all three for you?
Oh.. if intelligence could be defined by looks... You'd be waaaaaaaayyyyy uglier than Frankenstein's monster.  He'd be like "Daaaaammn, bitch!!! You be ug-laaaaayyyy!!" |
|
.