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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2018 1:49:44 GMT
Sure, there's some bargain basement stuff around that looks bad, but the good CGI is fine. You want movies of dinosaurs and giant apes and spaceships, you're gonna have to have some cgi, or else you'd be complaining that the model/man in suit looks fake too.
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Post by James on Sept 25, 2018 1:51:49 GMT
A man of common sense here. I fully agree.
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Post by moviemouth on Sept 25, 2018 2:03:55 GMT
Sure, there's some bargain basement stuff around that looks bad, but the good CGI is fine. You want movies of dinosaurs and giant apes and spaceships, you're gonna have to have some cgi, or else you'd be complaining that the model/man in suit looks fake too.That is a load of crap. Yes, cgi comes in handy for certain movies (the Apes franchise is the perfect example) but it also hurts many movies imo. Nobody complains about practical effects when they look good and MANY movies used those effects brilliantly once upon a time.
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biker1
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Post by biker1 on Sept 25, 2018 2:19:47 GMT
Yeh it's really boring, especially the reactionary idea that it's a cheat. Fk that noise. CGI has opened up so many possibilities.
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Post by moviemouth on Sept 25, 2018 2:27:03 GMT
Most people don't complain about cgi, they complain about how MUCH cgi is used in movies and when cgi is used poorly.
Nobody complains about cgi when it is used effectively.
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Post by moviemouth on Sept 25, 2018 2:38:26 GMT
Can't agree. Take The Legend of Tarzan for example. That is a movie that used way too much CGI, and used CGI in places where it wasn't needed. It nearly ruins the film. And most of the complaints are about bad CGI, which is a completely fair complaint. Who wants to watch shitty CGI? Now where I will agree with you is with movies like Infinity War. The CGI complaints were ridiculous because the CGI was clearly done well and in my opinion, necessary. I actually think the cgi in Tarzan is mostly effective. The part where he is running through the tall trees from branch to branch is one of my favorite cgi scenes in recent years. The movie isn't good, but that has very little to do with the cgi imo. I mostly don't have a problem with the cgi in Infinity War, but the Wikanda scenes look very tacky.
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Post by twothousandonemark on Sept 25, 2018 3:07:20 GMT
Is this 2008? I've not heard CGI being chirped about for years.
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Post by kingkoopa on Sept 25, 2018 3:52:09 GMT
To me it's like puppetry, practical effects, miniatures, compositing, matte paintings, etc...
All are useful, but ultimately benefit from creative and capable hands. "Jurassic Park" and "Carnosaur" were released close to each other, and strategically used a lot of the same methods. JP is still celebrated and "Carnosaur" looked like/was more of a B-movie (still liked it myself).
I think CGI is bashed/blamed a little too much on a broad scale. I watch a lot of crappy movies (RedBox Horror anyone?) and forgive bad CGI, but it does take me out of the movie a bit. Sometimes the creative approaches of guys like Lucas, Spielberg, Rob Bottin, Stan Winston, etc...involve finding ways to show a little less, but in a more compelling way. Give me practical effects any day, but well-done CGI (Jurassic Park, Spider-man 2002...up to Inception and beyond) can be impressive.
I think when it's leaned upon is when it doesn't work. Doesn't hurt that computers and the software required are much cheaper and easier to acquire than ever before...
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Post by ck100 on Sept 25, 2018 4:00:37 GMT
CGI should be used sparingly.
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Post by mslo79 on Oct 1, 2018 20:53:38 GMT
I agree with OP. because in a basic sense, whatever kind of CGI or practical effects a movie has, the movie itself either works or does not and I don't think it matters too much either way whether it's CGI or practical effects. come to think of it... I assume that in general CGI costs less $ than practical effects? ; because if that's true, I can see why CGI will be the default choice for many. but I guess to use the OP's apes etc example... I tend to prefer modern CGI over the practical effects of the old days. but as a general guideline for me... it's not helping a movie when main characters are CGI as I prefer real people. but with this said, I am not saying it's a automatic show stopper but does increase the chances of the movie getting a Thumbs Down if things are too reliant on CGI, especially if there are no actual people in the scenes etc.
Yeah, I could see maybe complaining about CGI back maybe 10-15+ years ago but it 'seems' like CGI is starting to hit a point where it won't look as dated in say another 10-20 years of time like how movies from 10-20 ago today look. basically I 'think' there will be a larger gap in overall CGI quality from say 10-15 years ago vs today's CGI than there will be comparing today's CGI to stuff in 10-15 years from now. because things can only improve so much before most of the more obvious visuals will start to largely level off. like the CGI's core look will be 'good enough' for years to come after it reaches a certain point of visual quality.
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Post by lowtacks86 on Oct 1, 2018 21:04:40 GMT
"You want movies of dinosaurs and giant apes and spaceships, you're gonna have to have some cgi"
That's not entirely true, the original Jurassic Park actually didn't have a ton of CGI, it was actually animatronics with some quick CGI cuts and it looks a lot better than the CGI fuilled sequels because of it. The oringal "Predator" was just some guy in a costume and it looks a lot better than the CGI Predators in the latest release. Puppet Jabba the Hutt from "Return of the Jedi" looks a lot better than CGI jabba from the Star Wars re-release. Don't even get me started on CGI gore in horror movies, how pointless.
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Post by louise on Oct 1, 2018 22:29:28 GMT
I find Cgi rather boring. It makes everything look the same. But I don't from.choice watch many films that have it anyway, they're mostly kiddy films that I've taken my sons to, like Harry Potter, Avengers, Thor etc. They seem satisfied with the CGI.
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Post by moviemouth on Oct 1, 2018 22:34:37 GMT
"You want movies of dinosaurs and giant apes and spaceships, you're gonna have to have some cgi" That's not entirely true, the original Jurassic Park actually didn't have a ton of CGI, it was actually animatronics with some quick CGI cuts and it looks a lot better than the CGI fuilled sequels because of it. The oringal "Predator" was just some guy in a costume and it looks a lot better than the CGI Predators in the latest release. Puppet Jabba the Hutt from "Return of the Jedi" looks a lot better than CGI jabba from the Star Wars re-release. Don't even get me started on CGI gore in horror movies, how pointless. Isn't it just the super predator that is cgi in the new movie? As far as I remember, all of the predators in Predators (2010) and AvP are men in costumes. You also just brought up one of my biggest pet peeves - cgi blood and gore in movies.
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Post by Nora on Oct 1, 2018 22:36:27 GMT
Sure, there's some bargain basement stuff around that looks bad, but the good CGI is fine. You want movies of dinosaurs and giant apes and spaceships, you're gonna have to have some cgi, or else you'd be complaining that the model/man in suit looks fake too. completely agree. its getting ridiculous.
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Post by moviemouth on Oct 1, 2018 22:46:01 GMT
I'm sick of people complaining about people complaining. Now I'm complaining about people complaining about people complaining.
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Post by politicidal on Oct 1, 2018 23:15:51 GMT
Yeah the criticism of CGI itself regardless of the actual quality always bugged me too. It's not going away, make peace with it already. Studios aren't going back to hand puppets and makeup for nostalgia's sake for better or worse.
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Post by moviemouth on Oct 1, 2018 23:42:40 GMT
Yeah the criticism of CGI itself regardless of the actual quality always bugged me too. It's not going away, make peace with it already. Studios aren't going back to hand puppets and makeup for nostalgia's sake for better or worse. Let people complain. Why do you care? Complaining is a good release of frustrations. In fact, sometimes the complaining pays off. Some directors do take notice of people's complaints and make a change.
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Post by Primemovermithrax Pejorative on Oct 2, 2018 0:46:41 GMT
Phil Tippett: "In the olden days, producers knew what visual effects were. Now they've gotten into this methodology where they'll hire a middleman, a visual effects supervisor, and this person works for the producing studio. They're middle managers. And when you go into a review with one of them, there's this weird sort of competition that happens. It's a game called 'Find What's Wrong With This Shot'. And there's always going to be something wrong, because everything's subjective. And you can micromanage it down to a pixel, and that happens all the time. We're doing it digitally, so there's no pressure to save on film costs or whatever, so it's not unusual to go through 500 revisions of the same shot, moving pixels around and scrutinizing this or that. That's not how you manage artists. You encourage artists, and then you'll get, you know, art. If your idea of managing artists is just pointing out what's wrong and making them fix it over and over again, you end up with artists who just stand around asking "OK lady, where do you want this sofa? You want if over there? No? Fine. You want it over there? I don't give a fuck. I'll put it wherever you want it." It's creative mismanagement, it's part of the whole corporate modality. The fish stinks from the head on down. Back on Star Wars, RoboCop, we never thought about what was wrong with a shot. We just thought about how to make it better."
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Post by ck100 on Oct 2, 2018 0:51:21 GMT
I miss guys like Stan Winston.
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Post by lowtacks86 on Oct 2, 2018 2:23:56 GMT
This reminds of the DVD commentary for "Alien", Ridley was commenting on the scene where one of the explorers was looking at an egg sac and he could see the face hugger inside:
That was actually just Ridley himself with a pair of gloves on. A very cheap but effective technique, nowadays would have been unnecesarilly done with CGI and cost thousands of dollars.
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