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Post by Aj_June on Nov 24, 2018 3:47:04 GMT
Why are you sure of that. They may not. The other people look far different from them and they are not used to them. Any culture, primitive or not, have some sort of due process, some rules to which they adhere to. Being different is still no excuse to end someone's life. Their "culture" predates organized religion. The assumptions you make about a tribe that is over 30000 years old and has not moved on or changed in many ways is astounding.
Indian government as well as Indian scientists let them be and never forced themselves on them. I guess the concept of respecting other people's wishes is a bit difficult for Christian folks and the people who seem to at least be partly influenced by Christian values.
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fatpaul
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Post by fatpaul on Nov 24, 2018 3:54:09 GMT
Their "culture" predates organized religion. The assumptions you make about a tribe that is over 30000 years old and has not moved on is astounding. The only assumptions I make is that if they are a tribe then they must adhere to some rules themselves in order to stay as a tribe and that violence is a language common to all. I'm a moral nihilist which is far removed from Christian morality, but yeah, another lame-arsed dig aimed at me in lieu of an explanation.
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Post by poelzig on Nov 24, 2018 3:58:41 GMT
He had it coming. And as for the numptys parents saying they forgive the tribespeople, they should be the ones seeking forgiveness. I am astounded by the fact that people can't put themselves in shoes of a small community that have live in stone age totally isolated from world and see how things work. These people want everyone to follow their own standards of morality. Life's been easy in Americas as the free land that was gotten from murdering the native paid of well. But the danger for the rest of the world is always there. Anytime there is lack of resources I would be surprised by return to violence by religious scumbags no matter of what country or culture. Currently the economy is well so it is easy to lecture others.
Yep. The scumbags from the UK are reprehensible. The crimes they committed against the Native Americans are just one of the countless crimes those evil lot have committed. I wonder if that's why their horrid little islands are in such shit shape now? Didn't those assholes force countless millions to convert to what they believe in? Unforgivable what the brits and the rest of those UK lot have done. Innit?
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Post by Aj_June on Nov 24, 2018 3:59:57 GMT
Their "culture" predates organized religion. The assumptions you make about a tribe that is over 30000 years old and has not moved on is astounding. They only assumptions I make is that if they are a tribe then they must adhere to some rules themselves in order to stay as a tribe and that violence is a language common to all. I'm a moral nihilist which is far removed Christian morality, but yeah, another lame-arsed dig aimed at me in lieu of an explanation. They are a group of people who have been isolate from the rest of the world for over 30,000 years and have no contact with others. "Tribe" is a word we ascribe to them. They don't ascribe anything to themselves. Your assumptions are stupid and you are demanding those people to have certain morality when in fact they are behaving based on natural evolutionary traits. Seeing outsiders they have never met as threats.
The only one being disrespectful is you in complaining about lack of morality based on your assumptions of minimum standard of morality that everyone has to hold. Forgetting other factors in play.
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fatpaul
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Post by fatpaul on Nov 24, 2018 4:08:07 GMT
You assumptions are stupid and you are demanding those people to have certain morality when in fact they are behaving based on natural evolutionary traits. Seeing outsiders they have never met as threats. I have demanded nothing. All I have said is that I don't think it is right that a non-violent person should be perceived as a threat. It is you that is making assumptions of me due to your emotional commitment to this matter. Again with the assumptions about me. Again, all I am saying is, regardless of culture, a non-violent person should not be perceived as a threat. Show me the words I have used that says I am being disrespectful to someone. Anybody for that matter?
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Post by Aj_June on Nov 24, 2018 4:18:12 GMT
fatpaul You make an assumption in that very sentence I have highlighted in bold. Are you in position of the people of that island? Your assumption is that seeing someone whom an isolated small group of people have never seen is not in itself enough to create fear. You assumption is that to be perceived as threat someone will have to go on attacking those people. You are probably very less capable of understanding people who are not even developed enough to make fire. The people who actually do live in stone age.
And yes, by judging that group as not being right in their action you are being disrespectful.
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fatpaul
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Post by fatpaul on Nov 24, 2018 4:20:19 GMT
fatpaul You make an assumption in that very sentence I have highlight in bold. Are you in position of the people of that islands? Your assumption is that seeing someone whom an isolated small group of people have never seen is not in itself enough to create fear. You assumption is that to be perceived as threat someone will have to go on attacking those people. You are probably very less capable of understanding people who are not even developed enough to make fire. The people who actually do live in stone age. So I have made an assumption on how I think? I don't deny making assumptions. I deny making demands or disrespecting anybody.
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Post by Aj_June on Nov 24, 2018 4:21:52 GMT
The absolute state of this thread... Cody....they are what they are....and they are going to be what they are going to be.....and they are going to get what they are going to get.....in the end That goes for the savages on that island as well as the ones on this thread. I heard about this on the car radio as I was coming home earlier in the week, but I don't think they said that the missionary was twenty-seven. That's half my age. I wouldn't have tried to do what he did then or now. For a long time I've been expressing my sentiment that too much attention is being paid to the souls that are hopelessly lost and not enough to the ones who still have a chance. This guy evidently felt differently about it, and he knew the risks, and he got what he got. Sometimes you just have to leave it at that. The actual savages were those people who murdered the natives in different parts of world in the name of Christianizing the world. Those people on the islands are minding their own business. They have a simple life. Don't worry about their salvation. They can take care of themselves. They don't need outsiders who could potentially inflict them with disease to go on removing Satan from their lives.
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Eλευθερί
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Post by Eλευθερί on Nov 24, 2018 4:29:01 GMT
Cody....they are what they are....and they are going to be what they are going to be.....and they are going to get what they are going to get.....in the end That goes for the savages on that island as well as the ones on this thread. I heard about this on the car radio as I was coming home earlier in the week, but I don't think they said that the missionary was twenty-seven. That's half my age. I wouldn't have tried to do what he did then or now. For a long time I've been expressing my sentiment that too much attention is being paid to the souls that are hopelessly lost and not enough to the ones who still have a chance. This guy evidently felt differently about it, and he knew the risks, and he got what he got. Sometimes you just have to leave it at that. The actual savages were those people who murdered the natives in different parts of world in the name of Christianizing the world. Those people on the islands are minding their own business. They have a simple life. Don't worry about their salvation. They can take care of themselves. They don't need outsiders who could potentially inflict them with disease to go on removing Satan from their lives. In the name of Christianizing the world--and making a tidy profit in the process. I quoted Christopher Columbus earlier in the thread. He couched everything in terms of the Greater Glory of God, but he had visions of gold ingots and sex slaves dancing in his head. He gave the islanders he encountered worthless trinkets like beads to win their favor but then took many of them by force to be slaves and to teach the Europeans where all the precious natural resources were located.
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Post by The Herald Erjen on Nov 24, 2018 4:29:26 GMT
Cody....they are what they are....and they are going to be what they are going to be.....and they are going to get what they are going to get.....in the end That goes for the savages on that island as well as the ones on this thread. I heard about this on the car radio as I was coming home earlier in the week, but I don't think they said that the missionary was twenty-seven. That's half my age. I wouldn't have tried to do what he did then or now. For a long time I've been expressing my sentiment that too much attention is being paid to the souls that are hopelessly lost and not enough to the ones who still have a chance. This guy evidently felt differently about it, and he knew the risks, and he got what he got. Sometimes you just have to leave it at that. The actual savages were those people who murdered the natives in different parts of world in the name of Christianizing the world. Those people on the islands are minding their own business. They have a simple life. Don't worry about their salvation. They can take care of themselves. They don't need outsiders who could potentially inflict them with disease to go on removing Satan from their lives.
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Eλευθερί
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Post by Eλευθερί on Nov 24, 2018 4:30:21 GMT
The only reason these people have been left alone is that the island is tiny and not thought to have any worthwhile natural resources or to be of any strategic military value.
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Post by Aj_June on Nov 24, 2018 4:32:40 GMT
fatpaul You make an assumption in that very sentence I have highlight in bold. Are you in position of the people of that islands? Your assumption is that seeing someone whom an isolated small group of people have never seen is not in itself enough to create fear. You assumption is that to be perceived as threat someone will have to go on attacking those people. You are probably very less capable of understanding people who are not even developed enough to make fire. The people who actually do live in stone age. So I have made an assumption on how I think? The assumptions you have made are in the arguments that you have forwarded for why you believe the behaviour by the island dwellers was not appropriate.
Let's see this statement from you.
Here's one assumption again in thinking that the level of violence was not warranted. As if judging a normal person in civilized world and not taking into account what may have been going through the minds of people on the island. And another assumption is that you need an army to go to that island for those people to perceive outsiders as threat. Yet another assumption is in thinking that to be perceived as thread one has to behave violently. Sure in normal human socitities. Not in societies where people live in stone age and have no ability to make fire and have have had no contact with outsiders.
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fatpaul
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Post by fatpaul on Nov 24, 2018 4:36:53 GMT
You can play devil's advocate with me if you like, but you will lose. How am I playing devil's advocate?
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Post by Aj_June on Nov 24, 2018 4:37:59 GMT
The actual savages were those people who murdered the natives in different parts of world in the name of Christianizing the world. Those people on the islands are minding their own business. They have a simple life. Don't worry about their salvation. They can take care of themselves. They don't need outsiders who could potentially inflict them with disease to go on removing Satan from their lives. In the name of Christianizing the world--and making a tidy profit in the process. I quoted Christopher Columbus earlier in the thread. He couched everything in terms of the Greater Glory of God, but he had visions of gold ingots and sex slaves dancing in his head. He gave the islanders he encountered worthless trinkets like beads to win their favor but then took many of them by force to be slaves and to teach the Europeans where all the precious natural resources were located. Sure. Personal motive is almost always a big part of actions humans take. In the case of Columbus and others the greed was too much. The explorers just used religion well enough to reach their end.
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Post by The Herald Erjen on Nov 24, 2018 4:39:14 GMT
Erj, do you often fall asleep when the truth in what is told actually cuts deep. You must be numb to the truth. Was Jesus numb to this truth? No! Huh? Whazzat? Oh, it's just a bug.
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Post by fatpaul on Nov 24, 2018 4:40:22 GMT
No-one is asking you to sympathize I am just giving my opinion to the OP and I am not saying everyone should think like me. If you sympathize then fine, if you don't then still fine by me.
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fatpaul
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Post by fatpaul on Nov 24, 2018 4:49:40 GMT
The assumptions you have made are in the arguments that you have forwarded for why you believe the behaviour by the island dwellers was not appropriate. I don't deny making assumptions, what I do deny is making demands and being disrespectful and you still haven't shown me how I am being disrespect or demanding.
Why am I wrong to assume that a threat of violence should only warrant a threat of violence, regardless of culture? What is it about their culture specifically that I should say it's okay then?
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fatpaul
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Post by fatpaul on Nov 24, 2018 4:52:15 GMT
How am I playing devil's advocate? You just don't appear to acknowledge what is being said to you, so you will create a defense, and attempt to hold onto your inflexible pride and ego, which means you then have a need to undermine the essence in what is being said by posters on here who are not being tunneled visioned.
Or perhaps you just lack self-awareness and aren't aware of what you are doing.
But how is that playing devil's advocate?
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Post by fatpaul on Nov 24, 2018 4:54:13 GMT
I am just giving my opinion to the OP and I am not saying everyone should think like me. If you sympathize then fine, if you don't then still fine by me. I neither sympathize or empathize with the tribe, I just accept them for their own being and understand why they are left to their own devices.
This is not a black and white, right or wrong scenario. To look at it like this, is just making misguided and misinformed and distorted judgements. I accept the tribe being who they are, I just don't agree with them killing an unharmed man.
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