Would you have preferred Snyder’s Justice League over what we got?
Nov 27, 2018 21:21:01 GMT
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Post by seahawksraawk00 on Nov 27, 2018 21:21:01 GMT
BUT... as I've told you before, having an idea doesn't mean it's a good one, and the Martha moment is not a good idea. It could (should have) been executed better with Superman telling Batman to save his 'mom'/'mother' instead of saying Martha, but because Snyder has no grasp for subtlety and has to spell it out for the audience, we got Martha instead. But regardless of how it played out, it should never have gotten to that point in the story in the first place. The fight alone shouldn't have happened and there were dozens of opportunities for Superman to clearly subdue Batman and tell him what's really going on, but because Snyder is ashamed of superhero films (particularly Superman) he wanted to be edgy and cool and drew out the fight longer than it should have gone, and in the end, wrote themselves into a corner with the Martha sequence. The most glaring instance of this is when Superman recovers from the first Kryptonite grenade after Batman was punching him repeatedly, and instead of just telling Batman what's going on, he hurls him through the building. And to top it off, just to create dramatic tension and put Superman back in danger, Superman has to slowly crouch and slowly clench his fists while he conveniently waits for Batman to reload his grenade launcher. In the end, the whole thing just becomes a big contrivance.
BUT... as I've told you before, having an idea doesn't mean it's a good one, and the Martha moment is not a good idea.
Being paranoid about Superman's presence and intentions because of all the power he has, and his own failure and feeling of being powerless while watching his parents die, but then watching Zod destroy his other family (Wayne Enterprise) in the beginning, then being trolled hard by Lex Luthor (we'll get to that later) into believing Superman is the enemy, and then realizing Superman is more human than he is because he actually has a human mother, hence, the Martha sequence.
Martha is about Bruce rediscovering HIS humanity again (not so much Supes' as many claim). Bruce realizes that despite their different methods he and Supes fight for the same thing: Saving the ones they love, or "Save Martha".
Bruce failed to save his mother as a child (as showin in Act 1), now he can help saving SM's mother ("Martha won't die tonight"). This is the trigger event for his arc from brutal, inhuman vigilante-loner into someone who spares his victims and realizes his mistakes and forms a league (to compensate for SM).
The character arc does not end with the Martha scene, it begin there and is pushed further by SM's death in the end, seeing Bruce taking full responsibility.
It could (should have) been executed better with Superman telling Batman to save his 'mom'/'mother' instead of saying Martha, but because Snyder has no grasp for subtlety and has to spell it out for the audience, we got Martha instead. The fight alone shouldn't have happened and there were dozens of opportunities for Superman to clearly subdue Batman and tell him what's really going on, but because Snyder is ashamed of superhero films (particularly Superman) he wanted to be edgy and cool and drew out the fight longer than it should have gone, and in the end, wrote themselves into a corner with the Martha sequence.
Btw there you have the difference between using mommy issues just as a pretext to do some clobber porn, or having mommy issues to represent ideas and to resolve differences.
Having an idea doesn't mean it's a good one? Maybe. But having no ideas at all, never is a good one.
Do you call your mom by her first name when you talk about her?
And since the fight really did not have to happen, everything with the Martha stuff just comes off as contrived.
Not only that, but Snyder has a habit of setting up stuff but then not paying it off. I know the Martha instant wasn't the end of Batman's arc, that's why I called it the penultimate moment for him. Where Batman's arc should have really ended was saving Lois, because the whole knightmare sequence/time travel with Flash clearly established that Lois was the key to the whole Apocalypse and that her death was what caused Superman to go evil. So when she's almost drowns, it should have been Batman to save her instead of standing around like a fucking idiot doing nothing because it's kinda implied that Superman blamed Batman for Lois death in that knightmare sequence. That would be a completed arc for Batman.
