puvo
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Post by puvo on Mar 31, 2017 13:27:00 GMT
How many people look up at the moon on a given day, do you think? A billion? Two billion? And none of them noticed. Or maybe they DID notice. Maybe the government paid them all to keep quiet? No wonder the deficit is so high! Have you ever believed in something stupid until someone pointed out you were wrong? And then you go "oh yeah, that makes way more sense". Or maybe you then looked it up and found out they were right, and you were wrong. Ive done both, on a number of occasions! Im sure you have too. Erjen completely lacks this ability. It's fascinating!
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Post by Deleted on Mar 31, 2017 13:50:48 GMT
How many people look up at the moon on a given day, do you think? A billion? Two billion? And none of them noticed. Or maybe they DID notice. Maybe the government paid them all to keep quiet? No wonder the deficit is so high! Have you ever believed in something stupid until someone pointed out you were wrong? And then you go "oh yeah, that makes way more sense". Or maybe you then looked it up and found out they were right, and you were wrong. Ive done both, on a number of occasions! Im sure you have too. Erjen completely lacks this ability. It's fascinating! In my youth, I was quite into some of the allegedly unexplained stuff in the world. I read a book on pyramid power that claimed you could leave a blunt razor in a pyramid and it would be sharp again in the morning. I built my own scale model pyramid out of cardboard, stole one of dad's razors and blunted it on a wall. I had to improvise a compass by hanging a bar magnet on a thread so that it would swing round and align north-south! Of course it did nothing, but it's amusing to me looking back that even as a kid, my first instinct on reading a strange hypothesis was to test it scientifically and then reject it when it failed. I also went through a major UFO bender. Read every book the library had on the subject, and not the fiction ones - those pseudo-factual books about alien encounters and abductions, there were a slew of them after the movie Close Encounters came out. I couldn't test that hypothesis, but to my mind this age of five billion cameras has pretty much debunked the UFOs-as-aliens hypothesis forever. The mind of the believer does fascinate me, though. So many of them start off seeming quite reasonable. They start out all "I'm just asking questions/looking for proof/point out odd facts"... but as you offer the proof or answer the questions they come up with excuse after excuse, and often start getting outright angry or condescending. The proof isn't proof at all, because "they" manufactured it all and you're so stupid to believe it. I'm convinced a large part of the motivation in believing such things is that it gives people who feel powerless and ignored a chance to believe that they're special because they have knowledge that most lack. They get to feel superior to you and me because they think they know about things that we don't. Some of them probably don't want others to believe, not really, so they can maintain that specialness. Others think that one day their knowledge will be widespread, and everyone will admire them for having led the way. Such is my impression of people like Erjen, anyway.
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Father Jack
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Post by Father Jack on Mar 31, 2017 13:52:06 GMT
The axial tilt of the Earth varies by just 2.4 degrees over a roughly 40,000 year cycle...
We are currently in the middle of this ever so slight Milankovitch Cycle...
This slight cyclical tilt causes large climate shifts, tidal variance, and changes in ecological tolerance of species...
If a whopping 34 degree shift had happened in either Earth or the moons axial tilt, everything would be in total chaos... not a little bit, but massively...
What you are suggesting is total guff.
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Post by rachelcarson1953 on Mar 31, 2017 14:36:43 GMT
Have you ever believed in something stupid until someone pointed out you were wrong? And then you go "oh yeah, that makes way more sense". Or maybe you then looked it up and found out they were right, and you were wrong. Ive done both, on a number of occasions! Im sure you have too. Erjen completely lacks this ability. It's fascinating! In my youth, I was quite into some of the allegedly unexplained stuff in the world. I read a book on pyramid power that claimed you could leave a blunt razor in a pyramid and it would be sharp again in the morning. I built my own scale model pyramid out of cardboard, stole one of dad's razors and blunted it on a wall. I had to improvise a compass by hanging a bar magnet on a thread so that it would swing round and align north-south! Of course it did nothing, but it's amusing to me looking back that even as a kid, my first instinct on reading a strange hypothesis was to test it scientifically and then reject it when it failed. I also went through a major UFO bender. Read every book the library had on the subject, and not the fiction ones - those pseudo-factual books about alien encounters and abductions, there were a slew of them after the movie Close Encounters came out. I couldn't test that hypothesis, but to my mind this age of five billion cameras has pretty much debunked the UFOs-as-aliens hypothesis forever. The mind of the believer does fascinate me, though. So many of them start off seeming quite reasonable. They start out all "I'm just asking questions/looking for proof/point out odd facts"... but as you offer the proof or answer the questions they come up with excuse after excuse, and often start getting outright angry or condescending. The proof isn't proof at all, because "they" manufactured it all and you're so stupid to believe it. I'm convinced a large part of the motivation in believing such things is that it gives people who feel powerless and ignored a chance to believe that they're special because they have knowledge that most lack. They get to feel superior to you and me because they think they know about things that we don't. Some of them probably don't want others to believe, not really, so they can maintain that specialness. Others think that one day their knowledge will be widespread, and everyone will admire them for having led the way. Such is my impression of people like Erjen, anyway. The mind of a believer fascinates me, too, since I used to be one and now I am not.
I know this is veering a bit off topic, but I am interested in how others raised in belief, as I was, started their journey to non-belief. I think I may actually start a thread... my very first...
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Father Jack
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@arsebiscuits
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Post by Father Jack on Mar 31, 2017 14:43:07 GMT
In my youth, I was quite into some of the allegedly unexplained stuff in the world. I read a book on pyramid power that claimed you could leave a blunt razor in a pyramid and it would be sharp again in the morning. I built my own scale model pyramid out of cardboard, stole one of dad's razors and blunted it on a wall. I had to improvise a compass by hanging a bar magnet on a thread so that it would swing round and align north-south! Of course it did nothing, but it's amusing to me looking back that even as a kid, my first instinct on reading a strange hypothesis was to test it scientifically and then reject it when it failed. I also went through a major UFO bender. Read every book the library had on the subject, and not the fiction ones - those pseudo-factual books about alien encounters and abductions, there were a slew of them after the movie Close Encounters came out. I couldn't test that hypothesis, but to my mind this age of five billion cameras has pretty much debunked the UFOs-as-aliens hypothesis forever. The mind of the believer does fascinate me, though. So many of them start off seeming quite reasonable. They start out all "I'm just asking questions/looking for proof/point out odd facts"... but as you offer the proof or answer the questions they come up with excuse after excuse, and often start getting outright angry or condescending. The proof isn't proof at all, because "they" manufactured it all and you're so stupid to believe it. I'm convinced a large part of the motivation in believing such things is that it gives people who feel powerless and ignored a chance to believe that they're special because they have knowledge that most lack. They get to feel superior to you and me because they think they know about things that we don't. Some of them probably don't want others to believe, not really, so they can maintain that specialness. Others think that one day their knowledge will be widespread, and everyone will admire them for having led the way. Such is my impression of people like Erjen, anyway. The mind of a believer fascinates me, too, since I used to be one and now I am not.
I know this is veering a bit off topic, but I am interested in how others raised in belief, as I was, started their journey to non-belief. I think I may actually start a thread... my very first...
Go for it... PS. I still feel haunted by reading Silent Spring... it played a big part in awakening many people's environmental awareness.
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Post by general313 on Mar 31, 2017 14:46:23 GMT
I'm on a fool's errand here, but what the hey... If only I had a way-back machine and could take you to the first few months of him posting his "moon moving" stuff. Charts were linked. We have this Flynn resigned because of Nibiru?The archive probably doesn't go back far enough for what you're talking about though.
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Post by rachelcarson1953 on Mar 31, 2017 14:54:57 GMT
The mind of a believer fascinates me, too, since I used to be one and now I am not.
I know this is veering a bit off topic, but I am interested in how others raised in belief, as I was, started their journey to non-belief. I think I may actually start a thread... my very first...
Go for it... PS. I still feel haunted by reading Silent Spring... it played a big part in awakening many people's environmental awareness. I did it! It's kinda scary...
PS. Silent Spring haunts me, too.
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Post by general313 on Mar 31, 2017 15:00:07 GMT
I'm on a fool's errand here, but what the hey... I'm not talking about the proper motion of the moon (which shifts the moonrise and moonset times by almost one hour per day). I'm talking about how the moon (discounting its proper motion), sun and stars all return to the same spot in the sky every 24 hours. (I won't get into sidereal time at the risk of further confusing the one that is projecting the need to wear a dunce cap.) Why do the stars return to the same spot in the sky every 24 hours just like the sun, even though the stars are much further away, but your "axial wobbling" causes the moon to shift noticably while the sun and stars don't? Perhaps this might help. The earth rotating on its axis is what causes the sun, moon and stars to move about the sky as observed on earth, completing a circuit every 24 hours (again discounting proper motion). Any axial wobbling would be a further rotation with similar effect on the apparent position of the moon, sun and stars. Or this... If I face the sun, then turn 180 degrees, now the sun is behind me. It will be behind me regardless of whether the sun is 30 feet away or 100 million miles away. Well now, it stands to reason that the closer the object it, the more perceptible it's misplacement will be, and the moon is much closer than the sun, and much, much much closer than the stars, yes? Um, no. The "misplacement" you're referring to is called parallax in astronomy. But to get parallax you have to have translation (a positional change) of the eye point. Rotation (an orientation change) of the eye point gives no parallax.
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Post by The Herald Erjen on Mar 31, 2017 15:12:21 GMT
Erhmugerd. We disagree over your early posting topics. ACTIVATE LITIGIOUS TERMINOLOGY! Definitely. Somehow people are obliged to believe my posts. Or something. Yeah, there was no talk of axis wobble in the original moon shift thread. It was, however, the thread that included this gem about you: "Cine is finished for a while at least. The King of Liars told one lie too many. Too bad I can't wipe him off the face of the earth, but I can wipe him off the face of the IMDb, and he knows the penalty for failure." ![](http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e41/imdbv2/imdbsmileys/wave.gif)
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Post by Cinemachinery on Mar 31, 2017 15:13:41 GMT
You'd think with all this threatening verbiage he'd have at least sent me a PM with a poop emoji or something. I never did figure out the penalty for "failure". ![](http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e41/imdbv2/imdbsmileys/giveup.gif) Some mysteries will never be solved.
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Post by The Herald Erjen on Mar 31, 2017 15:15:52 GMT
If only I had a way-back machine and could take you to the first few months of him posting his "moon moving" stuff. Charts were linked. We have this Flynn resigned because of Nibiru?The archive probably doesn't go back far enough for what you're talking about though. It wouldn't matter if it did because I didn't say what he says I said.
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Post by Cinemachinery on Mar 31, 2017 15:15:58 GMT
![](http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e41/imdbv2/imdbsmileys/laugh.gif) Holy balls.
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Post by The Herald Erjen on Mar 31, 2017 15:19:17 GMT
In my youth, I was quite into some of the allegedly unexplained stuff in the world. I read a book on pyramid power that claimed you could leave a blunt razor in a pyramid and it would be sharp again in the morning. I built my own scale model pyramid out of cardboard, stole one of dad's razors and blunted it on a wall. I had to improvise a compass by hanging a bar magnet on a thread so that it would swing round and align north-south! Of course it did nothing, but it's amusing to me looking back that even as a kid, my first instinct on reading a strange hypothesis was to test it scientifically and then reject it when it failed. I also went through a major UFO bender. Read every book the library had on the subject, and not the fiction ones - those pseudo-factual books about alien encounters and abductions, there were a slew of them after the movie Close Encounters came out. I couldn't test that hypothesis, but to my mind this age of five billion cameras has pretty much debunked the UFOs-as-aliens hypothesis forever. The mind of the believer does fascinate me, though. So many of them start off seeming quite reasonable. They start out all "I'm just asking questions/looking for proof/point out odd facts"... but as you offer the proof or answer the questions they come up with excuse after excuse, and often start getting outright angry or condescending. The proof isn't proof at all, because "they" manufactured it all and you're so stupid to believe it. I'm convinced a large part of the motivation in believing such things is that it gives people who feel powerless and ignored a chance to believe that they're special because they have knowledge that most lack. They get to feel superior to you and me because they think they know about things that we don't. Some of them probably don't want others to believe, not really, so they can maintain that specialness. Others think that one day their knowledge will be widespread, and everyone will admire them for having led the way. Such is my impression of people like Erjen, anyway. The mind of a believer fascinates me, too, since I used to be one and now I am not.
I know this is veering a bit off topic, but I am interested in how others raised in belief, as I was, started their journey to non-belief. I think I may actually start a thread... my very first...
Why? You can talk to me directly if you like. You don't have to wait for him to quote one of my posts.
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Post by The Herald Erjen on Mar 31, 2017 15:29:26 GMT
The axial tilt of the Earth varies by just 2.4 degrees over a roughly 40,000 year cycle... We are currently in the middle of this ever so slight Milankovitch Cycle... This slight cyclical tilt causes large climate shifts, tidal variance, and changes in ecological tolerance of species... If a whopping 34 degree shift had happened in either Earth or the moons axial tilt, everything would be in total chaos... not a little bit, but massively... What you are suggesting is total guff. In case you missed it somehow, we are having climate shifts, and the populace is being told that it is caused by excess CO2 production, which is total guff. Russia, China, and India evidently don't believe it, or if they do believe it, they don't care. The 34 degrees is claimed by the video I posted. I haven't measured it myself. I only know what I see. I have lived here for twelve years (thirteen come July) and .I know roughly where the moon should rise and set and roughly how high it should be at its zenith. If the difference was small I wouldn't notice it. Thanks for your interest in the topic.
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Father Jack
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Post by Father Jack on Mar 31, 2017 15:33:46 GMT
The axial tilt of the Earth varies by just 2.4 degrees over a roughly 40,000 year cycle... We are currently in the middle of this ever so slight Milankovitch Cycle... This slight cyclical tilt causes large climate shifts, tidal variance, and changes in ecological tolerance of species... If a whopping 34 degree shift had happened in either Earth or the moons axial tilt, everything would be in total chaos... not a little bit, but massively... What you are suggesting is total guff. In case you missed it somehow, we are having climate shifts, and the populace is being told that it is caused by excess CO2 production, which is total guff. Russia, China, and India evidently don't believe it, or if they do believe it, they don't care. The 34 degrees is claimed by the video I posted. I haven't measured it myself. I only know what I see. I have lived here for twelve years (thirteen come July) and .I know roughly where the moon should rise and set and roughly how high it should be at its zenith. If the difference was small I wouldn't notice it. Thanks for your interest in the topic. I will reason with you here... Which are you suggesting: A) The Moon has tilted on its axis 34 degrees? B) The Moon has shifted it's orbit 34 degrees? C) The Earth has tilted it's axis 34 degrees?
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Post by general313 on Mar 31, 2017 15:39:34 GMT
The 34 degrees is claimed by the video I posted. I haven't measured it myself. I only know what I see. I have lived here for twelve years (thirteen come July) and .I know roughly where the moon should rise and set and roughly how high it should be at its zenith. If the difference was small I wouldn't notice it. And surely you have taken into account the seasonal fluctuation of the moon's declination, which makes it 45 degrees lower in the sky in summer than in winter (full moon at midnight)?
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Post by The Herald Erjen on Mar 31, 2017 15:46:21 GMT
In case you missed it somehow, we are having climate shifts, and the populace is being told that it is caused by excess CO2 production, which is total guff. Russia, China, and India evidently don't believe it, or if they do believe it, they don't care. The 34 degrees is claimed by the video I posted. I haven't measured it myself. I only know what I see. I have lived here for twelve years (thirteen come July) and .I know roughly where the moon should rise and set and roughly how high it should be at its zenith. If the difference was small I wouldn't notice it. Thanks for your interest in the topic. I will reason with you here... Which are you suggesting: A) The Moon has tilted on its axis 34 degrees? B) The Moon has shifted it's orbit 34 degrees? C) The Earth has tilted it's axis 34 degrees? As I already have suggested, the earth is wobbling on its axis. And it is no secret, although the transgender bathroom issue is deemed more important by the mass media. As for 34 degrees, I don't know, but it's enough for me to notice. In case you missed it from one of my earlier threads, the position of the moon as seen by me isn't always out of it's normal place. Sometimes it is, and sometimes it isn't.....because of the earth's axial wobble.....which I have mentioned on previous occasions.
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Post by The Herald Erjen on Mar 31, 2017 15:52:53 GMT
The 34 degrees is claimed by the video I posted. I haven't measured it myself. I only know what I see. I have lived here for twelve years (thirteen come July) and .I know roughly where the moon should rise and set and roughly how high it should be at its zenith. If the difference was small I wouldn't notice it. And surely you have taken into account the seasonal fluctuation of the moon's declination, which makes it 45 degrees lower in the sky in summer than in winter (full moon at midnight)? Read my last reply to 52 Hertz.
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Father Jack
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Post by Father Jack on Mar 31, 2017 15:53:49 GMT
I will reason with you here... Which are you suggesting: A) The Moon has tilted on its axis 34 degrees? B) The Moon has shifted it's orbit 34 degrees? C) The Earth has tilted it's axis 34 degrees? As I already have suggested, the earth is wobbling on its axis. And it is no secret, although the transgender bathroom issue is deemed more important by the mass media. As for 34 degrees, I don't know, but it's enough for me to notice. In case you missed it from one of my earlier threads, the position of the moon as seen by me isn't always out of it's normal place. Sometimes it is, and sometimes it isn't.....because of the earth's axial wobble.....which I have mentioned on previous occasions. Let me show you how you can prove yourself that you are wrong... Take a compass, every and any night you care to... Find your nocturnal celestial pole (Polaris in northern hemisphere will do, bit more work with Crux Australis in southern hemisphere, but you'll cope)... Write down the compass bearing where it is located every single time... Repeat as often as you like... Through first hand experience, you will learn that the Earth is NOT wobbling on it's axis 👍
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Post by Jonesy1 on Mar 31, 2017 15:55:49 GMT
That's libel, man, and it isn't funny. Nearly everything I say is twisted by you, and you seem to think that people are obligated to believe it just because you repeated it enough times, but they aren't. ![](http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e41/imdbv2/imdbsmileys/none.gif) You seem to think the same thing.
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