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Post by OldSamVimes on Apr 5, 2017 11:48:18 GMT
Sure, except for social clubs, sports clubs, pubs, libraries and community centers. All those failed to meet the needs of the wider community, including ironically enough "community centers." They are all meeting my communities needs right now.
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Post by Arlon10 on Apr 5, 2017 11:50:13 GMT
All those failed to meet the needs of the wider community, including ironically enough "community centers." They are all meeting my communities needs right now. Then why are you here?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 5, 2017 11:51:17 GMT
Who's "we"?
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Post by progressiveelement on Apr 5, 2017 11:52:50 GMT
Sure, except for social clubs, sports clubs, pubs, libraries and community centers. All those failed to meet the needs of the wider community, including ironically enough "community centers." The nearest church to Prog's kingdom is also a community centre. 🙋
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Post by OldSamVimes on Apr 5, 2017 11:53:12 GMT
They are all meeting my communities needs right now. Then why are you here? So when someone makes an obviously false claim like 'Religious meeting places were all people had before computer discussion groups after all' there is someone around to provide some real world perspective. You're welcome.
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Post by FilmFlaneur on Apr 5, 2017 11:57:05 GMT
Why can't people just pray and worship the deity of their choice in their own homes, dwellings or wherever else they choose? Christian Deists apparently don't have, need or want churches, so the idea is not so out of the question as one might think.
www.christiandeistfellowship.com/withoutchurches.htm
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Post by Arlon10 on Apr 5, 2017 11:59:00 GMT
So when someone makes an obviously false claim like 'Religious meeting places were all people had before computer discussion groups after all' there is someone around to provide some real world perspective. You're welcome. With the exception of "community centers" all the alternatives to religious meetings you mentioned were especially exclusionary, more so than any religious service. The rare success in community centers mentioned by prog is associated with a church. Most of the other "community centers" fail. Perhaps now you can guess why. You're welcome.
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Post by OldSamVimes on Apr 5, 2017 11:59:21 GMT
Human beings. You're one of them. The question is 'Why do you need a church'? The answer is 'You don't'.
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Post by OldSamVimes on Apr 5, 2017 12:00:47 GMT
With the exception of "community centers" all the alternatives to religious meetings you mentioned were especially exclusionary, more so than any religious service. Perhaps now you can guess why. You're welcome. One day you're going to look back on your life and think 'I sure wasted a lot of my time arguing semantics'. I won't even bother asking you what is so exclusionary about public libraries.
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Post by Arlon10 on Apr 5, 2017 12:39:11 GMT
With the exception of "community centers" all the alternatives to religious meetings you mentioned were especially exclusionary, more so than any religious service. Perhaps now you can guess why. You're welcome. One day you're going to look back on your life and think 'I sure wasted a lot of my time arguing semantics'. I won't even bother asking you what is so exclusionary about public libraries. There's that part about not talking. Of course libraries do sometimes hold meetings in special rooms or at special hours to avoid disturbing the people reading. My local library had such a "read and discuss" meeting (at odd hours) when I was in high school. About 7 to 10 people attended. We did not get to cover many pressing issues of the day since books tend to be behind the news just a bit.
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Post by Arlon10 on Apr 5, 2017 12:42:53 GMT
All those failed to meet the needs of the wider community, including ironically enough "community centers." The nearest church to Prog's kingdom is also a community centre. 🙋 Is that Wales? Then Wales is cool. How did a guy like you get to live in Wales? Might I live in a cool place like Wales one day?
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Post by OldSamVimes on Apr 5, 2017 12:44:47 GMT
One day you're going to look back on your life and think 'I sure wasted a lot of my time arguing semantics'. I won't even bother asking you what is so exclusionary about public libraries. There's that part about not talking. Of course libraries do sometimes hold meetings in special rooms or at special hours to avoid disturbing the people reading. My local library had such a "read and discuss" meeting (at odd hours) when I was in high school. About 7 to 10 people attended. We did not get to cover many pressing issues of the day since books tend to be behind the news just a bit. The libraries in my community don't prohibit talking. Sorry to hear they're so strict about it where you live.
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Post by awhina on Apr 5, 2017 12:47:10 GMT
Human beings. You're one of them. The question is 'Why do you need a church'?  The answer is 'You don't'. No OSV - you don't. We do. Churches are for Christians not atheists.
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Post by OldSamVimes on Apr 5, 2017 12:51:18 GMT
Human beings. You're one of them. The question is 'Why do you need a church'? The answer is 'You don't'. No OSV - you don't. We do. Churches are for Christians not atheists. I'm not an atheist, I believe in ALL the Gods. People who only believe in one God are selective atheists. A fish does not need a third party to find water. It is the same with human beings and 'God'. If you think 'I need to go to that building and listen to those people to find God' then you have fallen for transparent spiritual blackmail.
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Post by progressiveelement on Apr 5, 2017 12:52:43 GMT
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Post by 🌵 on Apr 5, 2017 13:05:40 GMT
For a lot of people, an important part of religion is feeling part of a community. Churches are places where people can congregate together.
Also, the general aesthetics and atmosphere of the building is very different in a church, and perhaps more conducive to producing a "spiritual" frame of mind.
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Post by FilmFlaneur on Apr 5, 2017 13:12:20 GMT
I'm not an atheist, I believe in ALL the Gods. People who only believe in one God are selective atheists. This is an interesting statement and while the second part is technically true, I was wondering if the first part means that you think all gods are just the same, deliberate supernatural one, or that all gods are just part of mankind's overall idea of 'god' which can be anything, or whether you believe in gods which are entirely imaginary as well as the purported 'actual' one(s)?
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Post by OldSamVimes on Apr 5, 2017 13:20:17 GMT
I'm not an atheist, I believe in ALL the Gods. People who only believe in one God are selective atheists. This is an interesting statement and while the second part is technically true, I was wondering if the first part means that you think all gods are just the same, deliberate supernatural one, or that all gods are just part of mankind's overall idea of 'god' which can be anything, or whether you believe in gods which are entirely imaginary as well as the purported 'actual' one(s)? I actually believe that if people truly believe in something than on some level it will exist. So Zeus exists as long as he exists for somebody. Even me just saying I believe in all the Gods is enough to keep some of the lesser known ones going in some capacity.
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Post by FilmFlaneur on Apr 5, 2017 13:25:21 GMT
Yes I suppose that if someone believes in something then it will exist 'for them', but then one has to distinguish between something merely with meaning for a person and that thing actually meaningfully existing other than that. Love the idea of 'keeping the lesser known gods going', btw; perhaps we ought to consider a benefit worship session?
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Post by 🌵 on Apr 5, 2017 13:39:18 GMT
This is an interesting statement and while the second part is technically true, I was wondering if the first part means that you think all gods are just the same, deliberate supernatural one, or that all gods are just part of mankind's overall idea of 'god' which can be anything, or whether you believe in gods which are entirely imaginary as well as the purported 'actual' one(s)? I actually believe that if people truly believe in something than on some level it will exist. So Zeus exists as long as he exists for somebody. Even me just saying I believe in all the Gods is enough to keep some of the lesser known ones going in some capacity. Why do you believe that if people believe in something then it will exist, rather than that if people believe in something then it will not exist? If I believe that unicorns exist, why should that make it that the case that unicorns really do exist, rather than that unicorns don't exist? Also, what about people who believe that god does not exist? If belief that god does exist is sufficient to somehow bring god into existence, why isn't belief that god does not exist sufficient to take him out of existence again?
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