Marendil
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Post by Marendil on Mar 8, 2019 10:41:01 GMT
5:40 "People being so consumed by their petty struggles … that they are blind to the much greater threats that are happening far away on the periphery of their kingdoms." He speaks of threats, not of just one, and it comes just after he has said that White Walkers and Daenerys are ice and fire. It makes it clear to anyone who is not dead set on adulating the lizard bitch that she is the other evil of the story. I didn't see the trailer but I see people asking if Arya is talking to Cersei and they interpret it as confirmation that she will kill her. In a way, this confirms that she won't and that she is talking to someone unexpected instead. Oh, and someone also said Cersei is drinking while she hears Jaime and Brienne shagging in the room next door Ah, I remember that part as what he said directly afterward caused my eyes to roll to the back of my head and wonder what people circa 2100 would think of him. He was on much firmer ground with his example of the doomed Third Republic and the ungodly scion of the Wiemar Republic to the East which would destroy it.
Threats /= 'evil.' His conception of 'evil' as detailed in that video would seem to preclude your interpretation, but I suppose that's just evidence suggesting the Lannister News Network will countenance pretty much anything at this desperate juncture?
It never occurred to me that Arya might be talking to Cersei, next time I watch it I'll keep that in mind. Cersei's expression whilst drinking is quite complex, I don't know what to think of that outside I highly doubt it could be a reaction to Jaime and Brienne bumping uglies.
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Post by Leo of Red Keep on Mar 8, 2019 11:06:32 GMT
Threats /= 'evil.' His conception of 'evil' as detailed in that video would seem to preclude your interpretation, but I suppose that's just evidence suggesting the Lannister News Network will countenance pretty much anything at this desperate juncture?
It never occurred to me that Arya might be talking to Cersei, next time I watch it I'll keep that in mind. Cersei's expression whilst drinking is quite complex, I don't know what to think of that outside I highly doubt it could be a reaction to Jaime and Brienne bumping uglies. I do not rely on his conception of evil, I have a moral duty to restore a meaningful sense to words I suppose this will be part of Good Queen Cersei's legacy after this bloody mess cleans up. I'll have to make sure it finds its due place in the histories. GOT Academy have come up with the prediction that Arya will kill Daenerys and Drogon instead. I want to agree, simply because it would fit in with the position of the Faceless Men and make the whole thing make sense. But I think Arya will not be a direct dragon slayer. The stupid beast will writhe in agony for days, failing at digesting her
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Marendil
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Post by Marendil on Mar 8, 2019 12:08:49 GMT
Threats /= 'evil.' His conception of 'evil' as detailed in that video would seem to preclude your interpretation, but I suppose that's just evidence suggesting the Lannister News Network will countenance pretty much anything at this desperate juncture?
It never occurred to me that Arya might be talking to Cersei, next time I watch it I'll keep that in mind. Cersei's expression whilst drinking is quite complex, I don't know what to think of that outside I highly doubt it could be a reaction to Jaime and Brienne bumping uglies. I do not rely on his conception of evil, I have a moral duty to restore a meaningful sense to words I suppose this will be part of Good Queen Cersei's legacy after this bloody mess cleans up. I'll have to make sure it finds its due place in the histories. GOT Academy have come up with the prediction that Arya will kill Daenerys and Drogon instead. I want to agree, simply because it would fit in with the position of the Faceless Men and make the whole thing make sense. But I think Arya will not be a direct dragon slayer. The stupid beast will writhe in agony for days, failing at digesting her Can I rest assured you realize that if you piss in someone's cup you may like the taste better but you're really only drinking your own piss? In other words, if you change the words more to your liking or agenda it doesn't tell us much about what GRRM means or intends, it just suggests what you wish he would say. Are things looking that desperate in the Red Keep?
I don't see Arya slaying dragons, but you did cause me to wonder about just how she'll react to Danerys. I've seen a fair amount of people figure that Sansa will want to scratch her eyes out, but I think she's rational enough to realize eventually how much better their position is with dragons and Dothraki. On the other hand Arya came across last year as an adherent to the Joffrey Baratheon School of Governance, what with wanting to behead Royce and Glover for bitching about Jon and intimidating Sansa for not being more supportive, thus I wonder how she and Dany will get along when she realizes Dany insisted he kneel away the North? Hrm.
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Post by Leo of Red Keep on Mar 8, 2019 13:04:37 GMT
I do not rely on his conception of evil, I have a moral duty to restore a meaningful sense to words I suppose this will be part of Good Queen Cersei's legacy after this bloody mess cleans up. I'll have to make sure it finds its due place in the histories. GOT Academy have come up with the prediction that Arya will kill Daenerys and Drogon instead. I want to agree, simply because it would fit in with the position of the Faceless Men and make the whole thing make sense. But I think Arya will not be a direct dragon slayer. The stupid beast will writhe in agony for days, failing at digesting her Can I rest assured you realize that if you piss in someone's cup you may like the taste better but you're really only drinking your own piss? In other words, if you change the words more to your liking or agenda it doesn't tell us much about what GRRM means or intends, it just suggests what you wish he would say. Are things looking that desperate in the Red Keep?
I don't see Arya slaying dragons, but you did cause me to wonder about just how she'll react to Danerys. I've seen a fair amount of people figure that Sansa will want to scratch her eyes out, but I think she's rational enough to realize eventually how much better their position is with dragons and Dothraki. On the other hand Arya came across last year as an adherent to the Joffrey Baratheon School of Governance, what with wanting to behead Royce and Glover for bitching about Jon and intimidating Sansa for not being more supportive, thus I wonder how she and Dany will get along when she realizes Dany insisted he kneel away the North? Hrm.
I don't primarily care what an author means. Art belongs to the beholder and what we make out of it is what matters. The same goes for history. We draw lessons from it, we do not ask what its actors were trying to tell us. What remains, though, is that he clearly identifies the Night King and Daenerys as threats to the realm, which has been obvious from day one. When Viserys tells about going home with an army, he leaves no doubt about it, nor does Daenerys when she looks enraptured at Drogo promising death, rape, destruction and pillage. And yes, Arya has become the equal of those she hates. Another trick of the great twister, no doubt, but well in line with his tactic of making the supposedly good guys do the worse things and those he made his audience dislike pick up the pieces and clean up the mess. This is how Sansa will be the good Stark, not her angry serial killing sister nor her dumb as fuck cousin Jon. I'm not sure the author means anything particular with this, I think he's just playing at providing the unexpected without a particular message. The lesson, though, the one we can take, is that the largest part of the audience has been utterly blind to it for years, clinging to immature first impressions and passing judgement only on the superficial. They behave the exact same way on the political field, not just within the harmless scope of entertainment. Sansa will be the one standing in the end and she has been stylised as Cersei's daughter.
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Marendil
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Post by Marendil on Mar 8, 2019 14:07:48 GMT
Can I rest assured you realize that if you piss in someone's cup you may like the taste better but you're really only drinking your own piss? In other words, if you change the words more to your liking or agenda it doesn't tell us much about what GRRM means or intends, it just suggests what you wish he would say. Are things looking that desperate in the Red Keep?
I don't see Arya slaying dragons, but you did cause me to wonder about just how she'll react to Danerys. I've seen a fair amount of people figure that Sansa will want to scratch her eyes out, but I think she's rational enough to realize eventually how much better their position is with dragons and Dothraki. On the other hand Arya came across last year as an adherent to the Joffrey Baratheon School of Governance, what with wanting to behead Royce and Glover for bitching about Jon and intimidating Sansa for not being more supportive, thus I wonder how she and Dany will get along when she realizes Dany insisted he kneel away the North? Hrm.
I don't primarily care what an author means. Art belongs to the beholder and what we make out of it is what matters. The same goes for history. We draw lessons from it, we do not ask what its actors were trying to tell us. What remains, though, is that he clearly identifies the Night King and Daenerys as threats to the realm, which has been obvious from day one. When Viserys tells about going home with an army, he leaves no doubt about it, nor does Daenerys when she looks enraptured at Drogo promising death, rape, destruction and pillage. And yes, Arya has become the equal of those she hates. Another trick of the great twister, no doubt, but well in line with his tactic of making the supposedly good guys do the worse things and those he made his audience dislike pick up the pieces and clean up the mess. This is how Sansa will be the good Stark, not her angry serial killing sister nor her dumb as fuck cousin Jon. I'm not sure the author means anything particular with this, I think he's just playing at providing the unexpected without a particular message. The lesson, though, the one we can take, is that the largest part of the audience has been utterly blind to it for years, clinging to immature first impressions and passing judgement only on the superficial. They behave the exact same way on the political field, not just within the harmless scope of entertainment. Sansa will be the one standing in the end and she has been stylised as Cersei's daughter. I know what you mean by the first, but while it may be entertaining to jack around some overzealous True Believers with those methods on messageboards from time to time, when trying to divine where the story is headed you don't do anyone any favors by relying upon sophistry. Even if the former is your goal you leave your interlocutor openings they can exploit which might mean the entertainment is all theirs....
The story is replete with moral ironies, had Ned Stark comprised his honor the war may well have been avoided, if Renly supported Stannis or marched immediately on King's Landing (this is spelled out more explicitly in the books) it would have been much shorter with far fewer deaths as we know now, etc. Also true is few would have died and the Realm likely strong and united enough to preclude the Targaryens even trying to return if Cersei hadn't betrayed Robert or run for it when Ned Stark gave her the chance.
Whatever else he may be, GRRM is a meticulous plotter. Arya's arc is no twist, it is a logical progression of her character and experiences. The Red Wedding was no twist either, he carefully created an environment where it could have been forseen by anyone who could believe he'd actually go there...
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Post by Leo of Red Keep on Mar 8, 2019 14:22:17 GMT
Whatever else he may be, GRRM is a meticulous plotter. Arya's arc is no twist, it is a logical progression of her character and experiences. Ok, let's call it a bend, then, a carefully planned slow alteration that goes against the expectations the audience was made to have. He does it all the time, all over the place. He said himself Tyrion was turning into a villain. Cute Arya has become some sort of psychopath. Daenerys still fights with herself in Meereen in the books but the show made her ruthless afterwards. Subversion is the man's gimmick. Almost everything turns out to be something else than announced. I fully expect the Wall to be the root of the whole problem with the Night King. "Tear down this wall, Mr. Martin" will likely be the moral of the story.
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Marendil
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Post by Marendil on Mar 8, 2019 14:42:51 GMT
Whatever else he may be, GRRM is a meticulous plotter. Arya's arc is no twist, it is a logical progression of her character and experiences. Ok, let's call it a bend, then, a carefully planned slow alteration that goes against the expectations the audience was made to have. He does it all the time, all over the place. He said himself Tyrion was turning into a villain. Cute Arya has become some sort of psychopath. Daenerys still fights with herself in Meereen in the books but the show made her ruthless afterwards. Subversion is the man's gimmick. Almost everything turns out to be something else than announced. I fully expect the Wall to be the root of the whole problem with the Night King. "Tear down this wall, Mr. Martin" will likely be the moral of the story. I know that I and others (CCC from the original boards comes to mind) saw that Arya was trodding a dark and dangerous path not that long past her her escape from Harrenhal, being enamored of (and indebted to) an assassin from a death cult no matter how charming he is with a cool accent and diction doesn't bode well for one's moral health and ought to be a big swat with the cluestick in my view. I still find her story fascinating to watch though, in a way I never enjoyed Ramsey's who could only make me laugh sometimes.
Dany is not completely ruthless, she did not move immediately on King's Landing despite the counsel of her Westerosi allies. Deep frying the Tarleys was just a flamboyant (but quick) execution of the common punishment for treason in that world and damned effective in preventing further deaths. Varys and Tyrion were just being weenies about that, though it was a poignant scene.
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Post by Leo of Red Keep on Mar 9, 2019 2:48:56 GMT
Ok, let's call it a bend, then, a carefully planned slow alteration that goes against the expectations the audience was made to have. He does it all the time, all over the place. He said himself Tyrion was turning into a villain. Cute Arya has become some sort of psychopath. I know that I and others (CCC from the original boards comes to mind) saw that Arya was trodding a dark and dangerous path not that long past her her escape from Harrenhal, being enamored of (and indebted to) an assassin from a death cult no matter how charming he is with a cool accent and diction doesn't bode well for one's moral health and ought to be a big swat with the cluestick in my view. There was no such clue in S2. Arya was using the tool she had to get herself out of trouble and it was even suggested she appreciated Tywin's company. She never thought of Jaqen until the Braavosi sailor refused to take her to the Wall and even then, it was the only "ticket" she had to go anywhere. The point at which Arya turned to me was when she said her god was death in S3.
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Marendil
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Post by Marendil on Mar 9, 2019 5:07:11 GMT
I know that I and others (CCC from the original boards comes to mind) saw that Arya was trodding a dark and dangerous path not that long past her her escape from Harrenhal, being enamored of (and indebted to) an assassin from a death cult no matter how charming he is with a cool accent and diction doesn't bode well for one's moral health and ought to be a big swat with the cluestick in my view. There was no such clue in S2. Arya was using the tool she had to get herself out of trouble and it was even suggested she appreciated Tywin's company. She never thought of Jaqen until the Braavosi sailor refused to take her to the Wall and even then, it was the only "ticket" she had to go anywhere. The point at which Arya turned to me was when she said her god was death in S3. As much as I enjoyed watching Jaqen and his interactions with Arya I was immediately put on guard when he explained that because Arya saved Rorge, Biter and himself that three others had to die. My mind did the 'math' on that and I backed away slowly. Maybe he was just joshing with her, maybe he was just using it as an excuse to get closer to her and 'explain' why he was aiding her, maybe....he was serious in which case it would be wise to be wary of his influence on her.
I couldn't help but think it all the way through, it's just how my mind works.
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Post by Leo of Red Keep on Mar 9, 2019 5:12:09 GMT
There was no such clue in S2. Arya was using the tool she had to get herself out of trouble and it was even suggested she appreciated Tywin's company. She never thought of Jaqen until the Braavosi sailor refused to take her to the Wall and even then, it was the only "ticket" she had to go anywhere. The point at which Arya turned to me was when she said her god was death in S3. As much as I enjoyed watching Jaqen and his interactions with Arya I was immediately put on guard when he explained that because Arya saved Rorge, Biter and himself that three others had to die. My mind did the 'math' on that and I backed away slowly. Maybe he was just joshing with her, maybe he was just using it as an excuse to get closer to her and 'explain' why he was aiding her, maybe....he was serious in which case it would be wise to be wary of his influence on her.
I couldn't help but think it all the way through, it's just how my mind works.
And yet, she never made the link with her praying list. He had to do that for her in the season finale but she said she had to go back to her family instead. So whatever we might think his influence was, Arya still appeared whole to the end of S2, transforming her last kill in a request for help to escape, and Jaqen was just one more of the shady characters on her way.
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Marendil
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Post by Marendil on Mar 9, 2019 5:37:08 GMT
As much as I enjoyed watching Jaqen and his interactions with Arya I was immediately put on guard when he explained that because Arya saved Rorge, Biter and himself that three others had to die. My mind did the 'math' on that and I backed away slowly. Maybe he was just joshing with her, maybe he was just using it as an excuse to get closer to her and 'explain' why he was aiding her, maybe....he was serious in which case it would be wise to be wary of his influence on her.
I couldn't help but think it all the way through, it's just how my mind works.
And yet, she never made the link with her praying list. He had to do that for her in the season finale but she said she had to go back to her family instead. So whatever we might think his influence was, Arya still appeared whole to the end of S2, transforming her last kill in a request for help to escape, and Jaqen was just one more of the shady characters on her way. The vengeance aspect also caused me to wonder, especially when it appeared she didn't comprehend the moral of Yoren's story. I'm just pointing out there were breadcrumbs indicating she was likely to tread a dark and dangerous path, the 'twist' was foreshadowed nicely I thought, an example of solid character development. That it may not be apparent at the time means he hid it well, like the solution to a good Agatha Christie novel.
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Post by Leo of Red Keep on Mar 9, 2019 6:11:56 GMT
And yet, she never made the link with her praying list. He had to do that for her in the season finale but she said she had to go back to her family instead. So whatever we might think his influence was, Arya still appeared whole to the end of S2, transforming her last kill in a request for help to escape, and Jaqen was just one more of the shady characters on her way. The vengeance aspect also caused me to wonder, especially when it appeared she didn't comprehend the moral of Yoren's story. I'm just pointing out there were breadcrumbs indicating she was likely to tread a dark and dangerous path, the 'twist' was foreshadowed nicely I thought, an example of solid character development. That it may not be apparent at the time means he hid it well, like the solution to a good Agatha Christie novel. I think the show delayed Arya's evolution and made it somewhat of a riddle. She breaks early on, in the first day at Harrenhal, and we see her reciting her list in her first night in the pen but then she's back to normal in her interactions with Tywin. When she turns back in S3, raging against the Hound after finding relative safety, it seemingly comes out of nowhere. I seem to recall a darker book-Arya with "weasel soup" and killing a northern guard on her way out.
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Marendil
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Post by Marendil on Mar 9, 2019 6:32:34 GMT
The vengeance aspect also caused me to wonder, especially when it appeared she didn't comprehend the moral of Yoren's story. I'm just pointing out there were breadcrumbs indicating she was likely to tread a dark and dangerous path, the 'twist' was foreshadowed nicely I thought, an example of solid character development. That it may not be apparent at the time means he hid it well, like the solution to a good Agatha Christie novel. I think the show delayed Arya's evolution and made it somewhat of a riddle. She breaks early on, in the first day at Harrenhal, and we see her reciting her list in her first night in the pen but then she's back to normal in her interactions with Tywin. When she turns back in S3, raging against the Hound after finding relative safety, it seemingly comes out of nowhere. I seem to recall a darker book-Arya with "weasel soup" and killing a northern guard on her way out. Even with Tywin you know she was planning to kill a man who had treated her pretty decently, putting a stop to the death camp conditions, feeding her and forgiving her dissembling whilst trying to educate her. That was hidden by the fact he was an enemy of her house plotting to destroy her brother, however do you think Ned Stark would have approved of her plans to assassinate Tywin? That's not how he played the game, even there you can see she was changed.
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Post by Leo of Red Keep on Mar 9, 2019 6:42:02 GMT
I think the show delayed Arya's evolution and made it somewhat of a riddle. She breaks early on, in the first day at Harrenhal, and we see her reciting her list in her first night in the pen but then she's back to normal in her interactions with Tywin. When she turns back in S3, raging against the Hound after finding relative safety, it seemingly comes out of nowhere. I seem to recall a darker book-Arya with "weasel soup" and killing a northern guard on her way out. Even with Tywin you know she was planning to kill a man who had treated her pretty decently, putting a stop to the death camp conditions, feeding her and forgiving her dissembling whilst trying to educate her. That was hidden by the fact he was an enemy of her house plotting to destroy her brother, however do you think Ned Stark would have approved of her plans to assassinate Tywin? That's not how he played the game, even there you can see she was changed. Ned Stark was the prototype of an irresponsible idiot. Worst possible "hero" I have come across, I'm afraid. I have only disgust for him.
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Marendil
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Post by Marendil on Mar 9, 2019 7:03:19 GMT
Even with Tywin you know she was planning to kill a man who had treated her pretty decently, putting a stop to the death camp conditions, feeding her and forgiving her dissembling whilst trying to educate her. That was hidden by the fact he was an enemy of her house plotting to destroy her brother, however do you think Ned Stark would have approved of her plans to assassinate Tywin? That's not how he played the game, even there you can see she was changed. Ned Stark was the prototype of an irresponsible idiot. Worst possible "hero" I have come across, I'm afraid. I have only disgust for him. I liked him, ironic since the very first time we saw him he was committing a miscarriage of justice. Note that I don't believe Willem (?) was undeserving of punishment for desertion, but considering the circumstances a horsewhipping with extra duty or somesuch was a more just punishment for being the first person to survive an encounter with the Whitewalkers in thousands of years. I still think Benjen was twitting Ned about that when he talked to Ned about it ('he was a true ranger') and would have preferred that Ned leave justice to the Night's Watch in that particular case considering the mitigating circumstances and the value of debriefing Willem about it.
I'm about to start my re-watch, I'll look and see if it appears that way to me again.
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Post by Leo of Red Keep on Mar 9, 2019 7:23:22 GMT
Ned Stark was the prototype of an irresponsible idiot. Worst possible "hero" I have come across, I'm afraid. I have only disgust for him. I liked him, ironic since the very first time we saw him he was committing a miscarriage of justice. Note that I don't believe Willem (?) was undeserving of punishment for desertion, but considering the circumstances a horsewhipping with extra duty or somesuch was a more just punishment for being the first person to survive an encounter with the Whitewalkers in thousands of years. I still think Benjen was twitting Ned about that when he talked to Ned about it ('he was a true ranger') and would have preferred that Ned leave justice to the Night's Watch in that particular case considering the mitigating circumstances and the value of debriefing Willem about it.
I'm about to start my re-watch, I'll look and see if it looks that way to me again.
I take time to form an opinion on characters so I took no side for a while but by the duel with Jaime in ep. 5 I was neutral, and by the time Ned was declaring war on Tywin I was done with him. I think the conversation between Cersei and Robert was the decisive event as a whole. The deserter wasn't really one. A deserter is someone who drops his uniform and runs away from war, not someone who disobeys to warn others. Ned was introduced as a stiff follower of principles who repeats sayings he got from others for lack of brains to form his own judgement. Cersei will tell him just that: "your brother was trained to lead, you were trained to follow". Everything in Ned Stark speaks of disdain for life, be it his or that of others, with the exception of his daughters. He'll choose war for a principle and say he's "learned to die long ago".
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Marendil
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Post by Marendil on Mar 9, 2019 8:55:37 GMT
I liked him, ironic since the very first time we saw him he was committing a miscarriage of justice. Note that I don't believe Willem (?) was undeserving of punishment for desertion, but considering the circumstances a horsewhipping with extra duty or somesuch was a more just punishment for being the first person to survive an encounter with the Whitewalkers in thousands of years. I still think Benjen was twitting Ned about that when he talked to Ned about it ('he was a true ranger') and would have preferred that Ned leave justice to the Night's Watch in that particular case considering the mitigating circumstances and the value of debriefing Willem about it.
I'm about to start my re-watch, I'll look and see if it looks that way to me again.
I take time to form an opinion on characters so I took no side for a while but by the duel with Jaime in ep. 5 I was neutral, and by the time Ned was declaring war on Tywin I was done with him. I think the conversation between Cersei and Robert was the decisive event as a whole. The deserter wasn't really one. A deserter is someone who drops his uniform and runs away from war, not someone who disobeys to warn others. Ned was introduced as a stiff follower of principles who repeats sayings he got from others for lack of brains to form his own judgement. Cersei will tell him just that: "your brother was trained to lead, you were trained to follow". Everything in Ned Stark speaks of disdain for life, be it his or that of others, with the exception of his daughters. He'll choose war for a principle and say he's "learned to die long ago". No, Willem deserted. If he wanted to warn others the obvious opportunity was when he got back to the Wall where his brothers of the Night's Watch were.
Ned showed a great deal of respect for the lives of Danerys Targaryen--resigning his position over the assassination plot--as well as Cersei's, Joffrey's Marcella's and Tommen's, his mercy there being instrumental in his demise.
Tywin forced his hand, let me remind you what his Dog of War did when Tywin let him off his leash to terrorize the Riverlands:
'They burned most everything in the Riverlands, our fields, our granaries, our homes. They took our women, then they took them again, and when they were done they butchered them as if they were animals. They covered our children in pitch and then lit them on fire.'
That requires a response and Tywin knew it. He expected Ned to lead the party sent to apprehend Clegane, a plot frustrated by Jaime's attack on Ned in the street.
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Post by Leo of Red Keep on Mar 9, 2019 9:07:16 GMT
Ned showed a great deal of respect for the lives of Danerys Targaryen--resigning his position over the assassination plot--as well as Cersei's, Joffrey's Marcella's and Tommen's, his mercy there being instrumental in his demise. He was that typical feeling fool who thinks children are worth more than anything. Stupidity incarnate. As to Tywin, Ned was escalating the situation. He was just the kind of person you do not want in charge. Fan favourite of the dumb part of the audience. Robert told him what to do at the beginning of S1E06 and Dumbfuck Stark did just the opposite. Traitor to the realm.
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Marendil
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Post by Marendil on Mar 9, 2019 9:22:20 GMT
Ned showed a great deal of respect for the lives of Danerys Targaryen--resigning his position over the assassination plot--as well as Cersei's, Joffrey's Marcella's and Tommen's, his mercy there being instrumental in his demise. He was that typical feeling fool who thinks children are worth more than anything. Stupidity incarnate. As to Tywin, Ned was escalating the situation. He was just the kind of person you do not want in charge. Fan favourite of the dumb part of the audience. Robert told him what to do at the beginning of S1E06 and Dumbfuck Stark did just the opposite. Traitor to the realm. Tywin had already escalated the situation to open warfare, when you send Gregor Clegane you're not exactly employing the faceless men, he kinda stands out in a crowd.
People like Ned because, amongst other things, they know he loved his wife and children, thought some things were out of bounds even in war and was played by Sean Bean.
Cersei even liked Ned Stark and wanted to spare his life.
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Post by Leo of Red Keep on Mar 10, 2019 7:41:15 GMT
He was that typical feeling fool who thinks children are worth more than anything. Stupidity incarnate. As to Tywin, Ned was escalating the situation. He was just the kind of person you do not want in charge. Fan favourite of the dumb part of the audience. Robert told him what to do at the beginning of S1E06 and Dumbfuck Stark did just the opposite. Traitor to the realm. Tywin had already escalated the situation to open warfare, when you send Gregor Clegane you're not exactly employing the faceless men, he kinda stands out in a crowd.
People like Ned because, amongst other things, they know he loved his wife and children, thought some things were out of bounds even in war and was played by Sean Bean.
Cersei even liked Ned Stark and wanted to spare his life.
Tywin knew he was the stronger party by far. Ned would find himself alone in King's Landing with his bunch of men and be sent away or worse the moment Robert realised his old friend was just a dumb fool, not willing to learn. Stupid boar caused the bloody war I don't think Cersei liked Ned Stark, she only did her best to find a peaceful solution. She went to him to apologise and try to find some common ground in S1E04, but he did not even understand she was offering something. Ned was not a man of negotiation or bargain, not the free market type the Lannisters represent. He was that dumb kid who wants the world to have rules like a board game and a large part of the audience likes him for just that.
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