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Post by coldenhaulfield on Mar 10, 2019 14:03:55 GMT
From Reddit:
Captain Marvel was originally panned by many people after the first trailer dropped and it appeared that her performance was wooden and fairly emotionless. The real “backlash” arose when Brie Larson called out white men who review her movies while Disney was simultaneously pushing this movie as a “Girl Power” flick.
Now, my own personal feelings on this entire situation is that Captain Marvel was brought into the MCU as an answer to Disney’s 2016 problem: Wonder Woman. Disney execs asked themselves who they could pull out of the comics to go up against WW and get some of that female market share.
However, rumors suggest (rumors I should stress), that the Russo Brothers were not keen on shoehorning Captain Marvel into IFW at Disney’s request, because she was not a part of the first generation of super heroes storyline, which was ultimately culminating with the Thanos arch.
However, Disney needed to introduce her as the new MCU lead, so they had to put her in front of as many eyes as possible. And since it appears Iron Man and Captain America are going to be leaving the MCU after Endgame, this made the most sense to Disney. Kevin Feige haw also confirmed that Captain Marvel is the most powerful superhero introduced to date in the MCU.
Now going back to my issue with this whole thing. I think that introducing her into the final battle with Thanos as the Ex Machina powerhouse hero completely overshadows the other characters (who have arguably earned their place in the MCU) cheapens 10 years worth of buildup in the franchise.
Disney/Marvel basically retconned the entire MCU Avengers storyline one month before the final battle by saying that there was always a super powerful heavy Avenger (who you never heard of before you got her hastily put together origins story one month before Endgame) who is going to fly in and help defeat Thanos, or possibly do it all on her own.
It cheapens the MCU by retconning the history of the Avengers and by overshadowing the current lineup in favor of an obviously last minute addition to the storyline. Add to the fact that Disney was pushing this whole “Girl Power” angle for marketing purposes, when Black Widow, in my opinion, already represented strong female power in the MCU.
This entire Captain Marvel thing feels ham fisted, artificial, and reeks of studio meddling due to their reaction to Wonder Woman.
Dude makes a ton of great points. What say you guys?
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Post by hobowar on Mar 10, 2019 14:26:38 GMT
Captain Marvel is everything that Man of Steel should have been.
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Post by coldenhaulfield on Mar 10, 2019 14:29:31 GMT
Captain Marvel is everything that Man of Steel should have been. Okay, whatever in the hell that means, but: does it cheapen the MCU? |
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Post by damngumby on Mar 10, 2019 14:36:26 GMT
Captain Marvel is everything that Man of Steel should have been. Okay, whatever in the hell that means, but: does it cheapen the MCU? You seem to put a lot of stock in opinions from anonymous sources about movies they haven't seen.
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Post by coldenhaulfield on Mar 10, 2019 14:39:17 GMT
Okay, whatever in the hell that means, but: does it cheapen the MCU? You seem to put a lot of stock in opinions from anonymous sources about movies they haven't seen. You seem to waste a lot of replies on ad hominem attacks rather than focusing on the discussion at hand. What's your opinion? |
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Post by damngumby on Mar 10, 2019 14:51:12 GMT
You seem to put a lot of stock in opinions from anonymous sources about movies they haven't seen. You seem to waste a lot of replies on ad hominem attacks rather than focusing on the discussion at hand. What's your opinion? Like the dude in the OP, I haven't seen how Captain Marvel will be used in Endgame. Unlike many of you butt-hurt fanboys, I reserve my opinions until after I have seen a movie.
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Post by coldenhaulfield on Mar 10, 2019 14:54:43 GMT
You seem to waste a lot of replies on ad hominem attacks rather than focusing on the discussion at hand. What's your opinion? Like the dude in the OP, I haven't seen how Captain Marvel will be used in Endgame. Unlike many of you butt-hurt fanboys, I reserve my opinions until after I have seen a movie. Oh. So why are you posting in all these CM threads? Weird. Welp, you get points for puffery as long as you never, ever post on the board again until you've seen the flick. Otherwise, you would (by way of definition, not aspersion) be a liar and a hypocrite whose opinions on the film were irrelevant. So either you can't respond to a single thread again on this board until you've seen the movie or you forfeit your right to ever credibly discuss it altogether here and everywhere else. 'Kay? ETA: to clarify, that's after you've seen Endgame, not CM. Until then? |
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Post by damngumby on Mar 10, 2019 15:13:51 GMT
Like the dude in the OP, I haven't seen how Captain Marvel will be used in Endgame. Unlike many of you butt-hurt fanboys, I reserve my opinions until after I have seen a movie. Oh. So why are you posting in all these CM threads? Weird. None of my posts express my opinion of the movie (since I have yet to see it). All of my posts are about the various scores, reports on the box office, and the amusing reaction of you butt-hurt fanboys ... which I have seen. See how that works? Oh dear, within the last hour you've spammed nearly every Captain Marvel topic on the MCU board and posted close to 100 posts whinning about Captain Marvel over the last 24 hours. It's time to take a breather, Ace. Pry yourself from your chair, wipe those cheetos crumbs from your bathrobe, and go upstairs and have a conversation with your mom or somethin'.
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Post by Rey Kahuka on Mar 10, 2019 15:16:09 GMT
I agree with this 100%...if this is what they end up doing. But Fiege and the Russos aren't going to do this. They've been building this story for years now, there's just no way they throw out the incredible storytelling that got them here and just have CM swoop in and save the day.
This guy is operating under the assumption that CM is going to go toe to toe with Thanos alone and wipe the floor with him like Superman with Steppenwolf in JL. I'll be shocked, shocked if they do that. And I'll be right there picketing with you if that's the route they take.
I've never liked the retconning aspect with this character. It's just the MCU making up for the fact that she should've been here all along, but it's still weak storytelling; especially once the pager was introduced. Fury wouldn't have called her during Avengers 1 & 2? I can get past that stuff but I still have to acknowledge it's weak writing.
Even then, it only truly cheapens the MCU if they use Carol as a one (wo)man wrecking crew that solves the universal threat by herself. And nothing in the history of the MCU suggests that's how they'd handle it. Thor is literally deus ex machina with Stormbreaker in IW and even he didn't stop Thanos. Marvel knows better.
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Post by coldenhaulfield on Mar 10, 2019 15:23:35 GMT
Oh. So why are you posting in all these CM threads? Weird. None of my posts express my opinion of the movie (since I have yet to see it). All of my posts are about the various scores, reports on the box office, and the amusing reaction of you butt-hurt fanboys ... which I have seen. See how that works? Nah, you've failed to live up to your own standard and should no longer be taken even remotely seriously by anyone here. |
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Post by coldenhaulfield on Mar 10, 2019 15:27:38 GMT
I agree with this 100%...if this is what they end up doing. But Fiege and the Russos aren't going to do this. They've been building this story for years now, there's just no way they throw out the incredible storytelling that got them here and just have CM swoop in and save the day. This guy is operating under the assumption that CM is going to go toe to toe with Thanos alone and wipe the floor with him like Superman with Steppenwolf in JL. I'll be shocked, shocked if they do that. And I'll be right there picketing with you if that's the route they take. I've never liked the retconning aspect with this character. It's just the MCU making up for the fact that she should've been here all along, but it's still weak storytelling; especially once the pager was introduced. Fury wouldn't have called her during Avengers 1 & 2? I can get past that stuff but I still have to acknowledge it's weak writing. Even then, it only truly cheapens the MCU if they use Carol as a one (wo)man wrecking crew that solves the universal threat by herself. And nothing in the history of the MCU suggests that's how they'd handle it. Thor is literally deus ex machina with Stormbreaker in IW and even he didn't stop Thanos. Marvel knows better. Great perspective. Thanks. Do you foresee any gray area, in which CM is perhaps more personally responsible for Thanos's downfall than you would've liked her to be while not ultimately going "full JLA"? Or you think it's pretty cut and dried, and they'll either use her well and in a way that complements the preexisting characters or they won't? |
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havenless
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Post by havenless on Mar 10, 2019 15:40:24 GMT
Im not following the part about retconning the Avengers. I don’t think that word means what this reviewer thinks it means.
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Post by coldenhaulfield on Mar 10, 2019 15:43:54 GMT
Im not following the part about retconning the Avengers. I don’t think that word means what this reviewer thinks it means. Uh, no. Pretty sure you don't know what it means, because he used it correctly. They retroactively changed the story, which is what happened and what he said happened and what the word means. ETA: you're welcome. Innit?  |
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havenless
Sophomore
@havenless
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Post by havenless on Mar 10, 2019 15:48:40 GMT
Im not following the part about retconning the Avengers. I don’t think that word means what this reviewer thinks it means. Uh, no. Pretty sure you don't know what it means, because he used it correctly. They retroactively changed the story, which is what happened and what he said happened and what the word means. ETA: you're welcome. Innit? What part of the story specifically had to be changed? |
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Post by coldenhaulfield on Mar 10, 2019 15:53:06 GMT
Uh, no. Pretty sure you don't know what it means, because he used it correctly. They retroactively changed the story, which is what happened and what he said happened and what the word means. ETA: you're welcome. Innit? What part of the story specifically had to be changed? Why don't you go find the poster on Reddit and ask him? The point of the thread wasn't nitpicking semantics (wrongly, to boot). It was debating the topic of the dude's post, which you still haven't gotten around to doing. |
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havenless
Sophomore
@havenless
Posts: 717
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Post by havenless on Mar 10, 2019 15:55:31 GMT
What part of the story specifically had to be changed? Why don't you go find the poster on Reddit and ask him? The point of the thread wasn't nitpicking semantics (wrongly, to boot). It was debating the topic of the dude's post, which you still haven't gotten around to doing. You didn’t post it to show people, you posted it for them to pick it apart...? I just asked a question so I could further understand what he’s trying to say. Captain Marvel never overtly reconned anything set up in previous movies that I can’t tell. I don’t use reddit so wouldn’t know where to begin asking where this guy is who wrote it. |
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Post by DC-Fan on Mar 10, 2019 15:55:38 GMT
From Reddit: Captain Marvel was originally panned by many people after the first trailer dropped and it appeared that her performance was wooden and fairly emotionless. The real “backlash” arose when Brie Larson called out white men who review her movies while Disney was simultaneously pushing this movie as a “Girl Power” flick.
Now, my own personal feelings on this entire situation is that Captain Marvel was brought into the MCU as an answer to Disney’s 2016 problem: Wonder Woman. Disney execs asked themselves who they could pull out of the comics to go up against WW and get some of that female market share.
However, rumors suggest (rumors I should stress), that the Russo Brothers were not keen on shoehorning Captain Marvel into IFW at Disney’s request, because she was not a part of the first generation of super heroes storyline, which was ultimately culminating with the Thanos arch.
However, Disney needed to introduce her as the new MCU lead, so they had to put her in front of as many eyes as possible. And since it appears Iron Man and Captain America are going to be leaving the MCU after Endgame, this made the most sense to Disney. Kevin Feige haw also confirmed that Captain Marvel is the most powerful superhero introduced to date in the MCU.
Now going back to my issue with this whole thing. I think that introducing her into the final battle with Thanos as the Ex Machina powerhouse hero completely overshadows the other characters (who have arguably earned their place in the MCU) cheapens 10 years worth of buildup in the franchise.
Disney/Marvel basically retconned the entire MCU Avengers storyline one month before the final battle by saying that there was always a super powerful heavy Avenger (who you never heard of before you got her hastily put together origins story one month before Endgame) who is going to fly in and help defeat Thanos, or possibly do it all on her own.
It cheapens the MCU by retconning the history of the Avengers and by overshadowing the current lineup in favor of an obviously last minute addition to the storyline. Add to the fact that Disney was pushing this whole “Girl Power” angle for marketing purposes, when Black Widow, in my opinion, already represented strong female power in the MCU.
This entire Captain Marvel thing feels ham fisted, artificial, and reeks of studio meddling due to their reaction to Wonder Woman.Dude makes a ton of great points. What say you guys? Agreed. Great points. MCU Dictator Kevin Feige is making Captain Marvel the future face of MCU as a reaction to WB making a Wonder Woman movie and Wonder Woman being the first CBM to have an audience that was a majority of females.
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Post by coldenhaulfield on Mar 10, 2019 15:58:04 GMT
Why don't you go find the poster on Reddit and ask him? The point of the thread wasn't nitpicking semantics (wrongly, to boot). It was debating the topic of the dude's post, which you still haven't gotten around to doing. You didn’t post it to show people, you posted it for them to pick it apart...? I just asked a question so I could further understand what he’s trying to say. Captain Marvel never overtly reconned anything set up in previous movies that I can’t tell. I don’t use reddit so wouldn’t know where to begin asking where this guy is who wrote it. Alright, my bad. Just read it as a synonym for "changed after the fact" and use that to inform your opinion. You don't have to agree with it! I just think the point deserves to be discussed rather than the dude's choice of words, which were correct anyway. |
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Post by DC-Fan on Mar 10, 2019 15:59:16 GMT
You seem to put a lot of stock in opinions from anonymous sources about movies they haven't seen. You seem to waste a lot of replies on ad hominem attacks rather than focusing on the discussion at hand. What's your opinion? That's typical of Patriots fans like KKB. When Ted Wells was hired as the independent investigator for DeflateGate, Patriots owner Robert Kraft himself praised Wells for his integrity. Then when Wells came back with a report that Brady had indeed cheated, Kraft and Patriots fans all attacked Wells' integrity. They couldn't debunk the facts so they tried to attack the investigator and drag his name through the mud. But Wells and his findings were validated by the 2nd Circuit Court of Appeals, which confirmed that Brady did indeed cheat and thus re-instated Brady's suspension for cheating.
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havenless
Sophomore
@havenless
Posts: 717
Likes: 312
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Post by havenless on Mar 10, 2019 15:59:53 GMT
You didn’t post it to show people, you posted it for them to pick it apart...? I just asked a question so I could further understand what he’s trying to say. Captain Marvel never overtly reconned anything set up in previous movies that I can’t tell. I don’t use reddit so wouldn’t know where to begin asking where this guy is who wrote it. Alright, my bad. Just read it as a synonym for "changed after the fact" and use that to inform your opinion. You don't have to agree with it! I just think the point deserves to be discussed rather than the dude's choice of words, which were correct anyway. What was he correct about? He said the reason it’s a retconned is because adding a super strong superhero previous to the Avengers was a retcon, when nothing in the movies implies she couldn’t have existed previously, like Pym Ant-Man. In fact, in the first Iron Man Fury tells Tony he’s not the first Superhero. |
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