|
Post by charzhino on Mar 12, 2019 15:18:38 GMT
Based on character development and being true female empowered icons. These are the only ones I consider have had proper story arcs across every brand, sad theres only 6
1) Wonder Woman 2) Catwoman - Batman Returns 3) Gamora 4) Mistique 5) Catwoman - The dark knight Rises 6) Captain Marvel
Edit: Adding in Gamora
|
|
|
Post by sostie on Mar 12, 2019 15:27:18 GMT
Gamora perhaps? Hit Girl maybe?
|
|
|
Post by Rey Kahuka on Mar 12, 2019 15:29:37 GMT
It's a short list for sure.
Wonder Woman Captain Marvel Black Widow Gamora
|
|
Marendil
Sophomore
@marendil
Posts: 750
Likes: 301
|
Post by Marendil on Mar 12, 2019 15:31:50 GMT
Based on character development and being true female empowered icons. These are the only ones I consider have had proper story arcs across every brand, sad theres only 5
1) Wonder Woman 2) Catwoman - Batman Returns 3) Mistique 4) Catwoman - The dark knight Rises 5) Captain Marvel
What is your definition of 'true female empowered?'
|
|
|
Post by charzhino on Mar 12, 2019 15:32:04 GMT
Gamora perhaps? Hit Girl maybe? Ye I guess Gamora would count. Her arc of hating Nebula in GOTG but saving her in IW would certianly count as development.
|
|
|
Post by charzhino on Mar 12, 2019 15:37:23 GMT
Based on character development and being true female empowered icons. These are the only ones I consider have had proper story arcs across every brand, sad theres only 5
1) Wonder Woman 2) Catwoman - Batman Returns 3) Mistique 4) Catwoman - The dark knight Rises 5) Captain Marvel
What is your definition of 'true female empowered?' Empowered by learning from self-flaws to be a better character through independant decision making/intelligence and being stronger as a result, not just an onscreen light show of powers.
|
|
|
Post by sostie on Mar 12, 2019 15:39:49 GMT
Mystique only really came into her own in the prequels/reboot. There was more development in First Class alone than the first three films. Her treatment in Last Stand made me think she was nothing more than just a tool to Magneto.
|
|
|
Post by charzhino on Mar 12, 2019 15:40:39 GMT
It's a short list for sure. Wonder Woman Captain Marvel Black Widow Gamora Black Widow has done nothing of note. She had a failed story arc between herself and Banner in AoU and nothing since
|
|
|
Post by charzhino on Mar 12, 2019 15:41:41 GMT
Mystique only really came into her own in the prequels/reboot. There was more development in First Class alone than the first three films. Her treatment in Last Stand made me think she was nothing more than just a tool to Magneto. Yeah Im referring to her FC/DOFP story arc
|
|
|
Post by Rey Kahuka on Mar 12, 2019 15:49:47 GMT
It's a short list for sure. Wonder Woman Captain Marvel Black Widow Gamora Black Widow has done nothing of note. She had a failed story arc between herself and Banner in AoU and nothing since Black Widow outsmarted the god of mischief, helped Steve take down Hydra, and has baggage that comes through in intermittent scenes without dominating the storyline. Catwoman in BR or TDKR has done nothing of note other than being the 'bad girl' love interest who fights the hero before falling for him (and is a laughably bad character in TDKR). Mystique can't seem to decide if she's a hero from movie to movie. Some role model. You have your list, I have mine.
|
|
|
Post by charzhino on Mar 12, 2019 15:54:29 GMT
Black Widow has done nothing of note. She had a failed story arc between herself and Banner in AoU and nothing since Black Widow outsmarted the god of mischief, helped Steve take down Hydra, and has baggage that comes through in intermittent scenes without dominating the storyline. Catwoman in BR or TDKR has done nothing of note other than being the 'bad girl' love interest who fights the hero before falling for him (and is a laughably bad character in TDKR). Mystique can't seem to decide if she's a hero from movie to movie. Some role model. You have your list, I have mine. Fair enough. But those examples of black widow are just power displays from her abilities, not character developing moments. The baggage doesnt lead anywhere.
|
|
Marendil
Sophomore
@marendil
Posts: 750
Likes: 301
|
Post by Marendil on Mar 12, 2019 15:56:28 GMT
What is your definition of 'true female empowered?' Empowered by learning from self-flaws to be a better character through independant decision making and intelligence, not just an onscreen light show of powers. I'd say Black Widow is the obvious winner, that's her forte and background. She went from being groomed as a soulless assassin-a monster of death--to a dangerous mercenary with 'red on her ledger' to pragmatic intelligence agent and finally a self-sacrificing superhero. She often works independently and is the one who figures things out like what Loki's play was and how to deprogram Clint and is a superior infiltration agent. She went from being terrified of the Hulk--like any rational being should be--to having him eating from her hand. She manages to be on both sides at the same time in Civil War--and gets away with it!
Why did you pick Wonder Woman?
|
|
|
Post by charzhino on Mar 12, 2019 16:03:07 GMT
Empowered by learning from self-flaws to be a better character through independant decision making and intelligence, not just an onscreen light show of powers. I'd say Black Widow is the obvious winner, that's her forte and background. She went from being groomed as a soulless assassin-a monster of death--to a dangerous mercenary with 'red on her ledger' to pragmatic intelligence agent and finally a self-sacrificing superhero. Narrative exposition of her backstory isnt strong enough. Cap got a whole movie showing his origin and life in the 1930s which makes his current day adventures more relatable. A quick 60 second exposition montage on black widow in the red room is weak. What does she self sacrafice? The red in her ledger subplot goes no where. Alexander Pierce says to her, are you ready for the world to see you as you really are, before Widow hits the button to leak Hydra files. But nothing happens to follow up her own exploits that Pierce threatened her with. Its like nothing happened.
|
|
|
Post by Rey Kahuka on Mar 12, 2019 16:05:05 GMT
Black Widow outsmarted the god of mischief, helped Steve take down Hydra, and has baggage that comes through in intermittent scenes without dominating the storyline. Catwoman in BR or TDKR has done nothing of note other than being the 'bad girl' love interest who fights the hero before falling for him (and is a laughably bad character in TDKR). Mystique can't seem to decide if she's a hero from movie to movie. Some role model. You have your list, I have mine. Fair enough. But those examples of black widow are just power displays from her abilities, not character developing moments. The baggage doesnt lead anywhere. The baggage doesn't have to 'lead anywhere,' it's part of what gives her character depth. And outsmarting Loki and helping Steve take down Hydra aren't examples of her character? She didn't beat Loki up, she used his own arrogance and expectations of how weak women are to get the truth out of him. She made the decision to help Steve go against SHIELD/Hydra because she felt loyalty to a good friend. SHIELD was her life and she gave it all up to fight a seemingly impossible battle; then she gave up her own dark past on the internet in order to expose decades of government coverups. Those are huge character moments. She also plays both sides in Civil War because she knows both men are being pigheaded but ultimately have good intentions. You can choose not to see character moments in order to fit your anti-MCU agenda, but that's on you. It's all there on the screen.
|
|
|
Post by Skaathar on Mar 12, 2019 16:26:49 GMT
Black Widow and Catwoman (TDKR) have almost no character development. Gamora has a bit but it's handled pretty weak. Elektra (Garner) has better character development than those 3 despite being part of some crappy movies.
My list would be:
1. Wonder Woman 2. Catwoman (Batman Returns) 3. Captain Marvel 4. Mystique (Jlaw) 5. Scarlet Witch
|
|
|
Post by taylorfirst1 on Mar 12, 2019 16:28:51 GMT
If TV characters were included, then Quake would be at the top of the list.
|
|
|
Post by Rey Kahuka on Mar 12, 2019 16:33:23 GMT
If TV characters were included, then Quake would be at the top of the list. Then we could really start having fun with this list. Jessica Jones, Colleen Wing, Quake. I'm sure DC has some good characters on their shows too, but I can't comment since I haven't seen them.
|
|
Marendil
Sophomore
@marendil
Posts: 750
Likes: 301
|
Post by Marendil on Mar 12, 2019 16:44:18 GMT
I'd say Black Widow is the obvious winner, that's her forte and background. She went from being groomed as a soulless assassin-a monster of death--to a dangerous mercenary with 'red on her ledger' to pragmatic intelligence agent and finally a self-sacrificing superhero. Narrative exposition of her backstory isnt strong enough. Cap got a whole movie showing his origin and life in the 1930s which makes his current day adventures more relatable. A quick 60 second exposition montage on black widow in the red room is weak. What does she self sacrafice? The red in her ledger subplot goes no where. Alexander Pierce says to her, are you ready for the world to see you as you really are, before Widow hits the button to leak Hydra files. But nothing happens to follow up her own exploits that Pierce threatened her with. Its like nothing happened. It wasn't just exposition, much of that development took place in the movies. The 'red on the ledger' which Loki taunted her with was the reason she she became an Avenger as per her conversation with Clint, before that she was saying it was out of her league. Her experiences with CA in TWS caused her to reevaluate her more pragmatic attitude and with Pierce she risked that they'd need her anyway despite her background. In AoU she risked capture and death to stay with Ultron which allowed her to reveal that position, not the first time she used capture as a pretext to garner intelligence--a trick the Punisher has also used. All of this constitutes "learning from self-flaws to be a better character through independant decision making/intelligence."
Also she has a diverse and valuable mental skill set; technical skills as well as people skills and has a better idea of how the world really works than any of the others.
|
|
|
Post by charzhino on Mar 12, 2019 16:44:51 GMT
The baggage doesn't have to 'lead anywhere,' it's part of what gives her character depth. To fully flesh out a character, I think it does. All the main Avengers have baggage which they get given opportunity to resolve. She really needed a solo movie to go into her past, right now its just expostionary backstory. Its a special ability, she says it herself she has a very specific skillset. Thats better. Shame you had to end with that
|
|
|
Post by charzhino on Mar 12, 2019 16:46:41 GMT
Adding TV is an unfair comparison. Tv shows get more airtime over several episodes to develop characters.
|
|