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Post by Marv on May 6, 2019 19:37:34 GMT
Im saying the fact that he's there in the first place is regressing the character. And honestly rather foolish when Bronn rarely seemed to be downright foolish before. His response of 'this f-cking family' or whatever was spot on. He knew then that there was no way he'd come out on top of this situation. Better off staying with those whores. How is that regressing his character? He has never cared about anybody except himself. He doesn't care about the Starks, the Lannisters, or the Targaryens. He has always gone with what helps him. He just wants what is good for him. He has never been different. He's is, and always has been, a "Gun for Hire". He will work for anybody as long as he gets paid. But he HAS been shown to care about people other than himself. Not many mind you but a few. Two of them are the very people he’s taken to assassinating. The gag is he’s hidden behind his ‘desire for a castle’ the past few seasons in order to justify his occasional heroic action or assistance. That was meant to be a facade...until this past episode. It’s regressing the character back to a backstabbing cutthroat after transforming him into a mostly self serving but otherwise respectable knight. On top of that they make him dumber. There’s no way Bronn gets either of these castles and he should know that. In character he should know that. He knows Cersei too well to expect her to follow thru and he approached Tyrion and Jaime all wrong. |
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Post by movieliker on May 6, 2019 19:40:22 GMT
Good point. But so what? Tyrion has made stupid deals before. He might have been thinking "Bronn could get killed. Then what difference would it make?" "Even if he survives, I could get killed. Once again, then what difference would it make?" "Even if we both survive, Bronn would take something else rather than just kill me." Tyrion has done this before. Thinking he can talk or think his way out later on, if and when they cross that bridge. My point is not that Tyrion was making a stupid deal. My point is that Bronn is an extremely intelligent person and he would know that what was offered to him was unattainable. As Tywin lannister had hinted before, you just can't do whatever you want. You have to pick someone from The Reach (one of the key noble families of that region) and you can only make them Lord of the Reach (Samwell Tarly qualifies for that because he is from a noble family of the Reach). If it was some minor landholding or small castle then it would be believable. But the Reach has like 20% of the whole economy of that continent and the highest population. Bronn would know that there is no way he gong to be the Lord of the Reach. He may know that. But once again, so what? He has something. He can always renegotiate again later. He just wanted to see if Tyrion wanted him. He probably realizes he can't trust Cersei either. We are not dealing with written contracts enforceable by law. It's always a "gentlemen's agreement" subject to change. Bronn is used to dealing like this. |
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Post by jon snow loves sansa on May 6, 2019 19:42:10 GMT
that was so un-jon thing to do ? giving ghost up like that to tormund i know tormund is a friend but still .... but lets have some faith troyal i think this is political jon we are viewing 100% with dany and i think he is shunning his stark side for a reason also he may not want ghost hurt in the upcoming battle he was already hurt. I don’t care that he left them. I care about how bad he’s treated him. He put him on the front line knowing he would die or that he had a good chance. And he didn’t even say goodbye to him. It’s so cold. i agree 
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Post by movieliker on May 6, 2019 19:46:42 GMT
How is that regressing his character? He has never cared about anybody except himself. He doesn't care about the Starks, the Lannisters, or the Targaryens. He has always gone with what helps him. He just wants what is good for him. He has never been different. He's is, and always has been, a "Gun for Hire". He will work for anybody as long as he gets paid. But he HAS been shown to care about people other than himself. Not many mind you but a few. Two of them are the very people he’s taken to assassinating. The gag is he’s hidden behind his ‘desire for a castle’ the past few seasons in order to justify his occasional heroic action or assistance. That was meant to be a facade...until this past episode. It’s regressing the character back to a backstabbing cutthroat after transforming him into a mostly self serving but otherwise respectable knight. On top of that they make him dumber. There’s no way Bronn gets either of these castles and he should know that. In character he should know that. He knows Cersei too well to expect her to follow thru and he approached Tyrion and Jaime all wrong. Just because he has shown occasional compassion, morality and ethicality, doesn't mean he can't position himself for a big payday. He maybe hedging his bets. Regardless of who wins the Battle for King's Landing, he is set up somehow, someway. As far as his actual payment, he can renegotiate again later on. It doesn't have to be exactly what Tyrion offered. |
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Post by Marv on May 6, 2019 19:54:16 GMT
But he HAS been shown to care about people other than himself. Not many mind you but a few. Two of them are the very people he’s taken to assassinating. The gag is he’s hidden behind his ‘desire for a castle’ the past few seasons in order to justify his occasional heroic action or assistance. That was meant to be a facade...until this past episode. It’s regressing the character back to a backstabbing cutthroat after transforming him into a mostly self serving but otherwise respectable knight. On top of that they make him dumber. There’s no way Bronn gets either of these castles and he should know that. In character he should know that. He knows Cersei too well to expect her to follow thru and he approached Tyrion and Jaime all wrong. Just because he has shown occasional compassion, morality and ethicality, doesn't mean he can't position himself for a big payday. He maybe hedging his bets. Regardless of who wins the Battle for King's Landing, he is set up somehow, someway. As far as his actual payment, he can renegotiate again later on. It doesn't have to be exactly what Tyrion offered. He didn’t tho. All he did was make sure Tyrion and Jaime don’t trust him moving forward. They’re in no position to give him what he wants and he should know it. My biggest problem is that he should know better and is acting like he doesn’t. |
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on May 6, 2019 20:05:47 GMT
I suppose it’s possible that he was looking for any out to killing them, but it wasn’t played that was so it was still a poor scene.
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Post by bluerisk on May 6, 2019 20:41:29 GMT
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Post by Marv on May 6, 2019 20:45:59 GMT
Also...knock Tyrion out with pieces of a broken ship...but have him manage to get to shore and instead capture Missandei. Why not have Tyrion get captured and have Cersei finally kill him in front of a Dany and Jaime? It would’ve been a shock, it would’ve felt natural, it would’ve pushed Varys hand farther and given Jaime his breaking point with Cersei.
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Post by movieliker on May 6, 2019 21:54:55 GMT
Just because he has shown occasional compassion, morality and ethicality, doesn't mean he can't position himself for a big payday. He maybe hedging his bets. Regardless of who wins the Battle for King's Landing, he is set up somehow, someway. As far as his actual payment, he can renegotiate again later on. It doesn't have to be exactly what Tyrion offered. He didn’t tho. All he did was make sure Tyrion and Jaime don’t trust him moving forward. They’re in no position to give him what he wants and he should know it. My biggest problem is that he should know better and is acting like he doesn’t. Why are they in no position to give him what he wants? If Dany sees him helping her defeat Cersei, certainly she will reward him. And Tyrion has influence with Dany. Arguably Jamie has influence with both Dany and Cersei. That's a win/win for him no matter what happens. |
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Post by Marv on May 6, 2019 22:03:49 GMT
He didn’t tho. All he did was make sure Tyrion and Jaime don’t trust him moving forward. They’re in no position to give him what he wants and he should know it. My biggest problem is that he should know better and is acting like he doesn’t. Why are they in no position to give him what he wants? If Dany sees him helping her defeat Cersei, certainly she will reward him. And Tyrion has influence with Dany. Arguably Jamie has influence with both Dany and Cersei. That's a win/win for him no matter what happens. Bronn isn't helping. He basically blackmailed them into saving their own lives by paying him double. He said he'd see them after the war was over, presumably to collect. Dany will never approve that. Nobody would. That's why its such a foolish pursuit.
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Post by Aj_June on May 6, 2019 22:16:28 GMT
Why are they in no position to give him what he wants? If Dany sees him helping her defeat Cersei, certainly she will reward him. And Tyrion has influence with Dany. Arguably Jamie has influence with both Dany and Cersei. That's a win/win for him no matter what happens. Bronn isn't helping. He basically blackmailed them into saving their own lives by paying him double. He said he'd see them after the war was over, presumably to collect. Dany will never approve that. Nobody would. That's why its such a foolish pursuit. I think movieliker is fairly new to GOt as evidenced by his not knowing Grey Worm or Hotpie. But I still respect his love for the show. But it seems to me he is not understanding the meaning of castle.
Catsle in GOT doesn't mean a beautiful castle alone. It means control over a certain area. Small Castles are like owning a few villages. But the Reach is one of the 7 kingdoms of a planet. Even a king cannot grant something like that to a cutthroat without displeasing almost all the inhabitants of that area. It is like if the USA were a kingdom and Bronn was promised Texas, Oklahoma, Kansas and Missouri combined. That's not possible. Simply not possible.
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Post by movieliker on May 6, 2019 22:23:20 GMT
Bronn isn't helping. He basically blackmailed them into saving their own lives by paying him double. He said he'd see them after the war was over, presumably to collect. Dany will never approve that. Nobody would. That's why its such a foolish pursuit. I think movieliker is fairly new to GOt as evidenced by his not knowing Grey Worm or Hotpie. But I still respect his love for the show. But it seems to me he is not understanding the meaning of castle.
Catsle in GOT doesn't mean a beautiful castle alone. It means control over a certain area. Small Castles are like owning a few villages. But the Reach is one of the 7 kingdoms of a planet. Even a king cannot grant something like that to a cutthroat without displeasing almost all the inhabitants of that area. It is like if the USA were a kingdom and Bronn was promised Texas, Oklahoma, Kansas and Missouri combined. That's not possible. Simply not possible.
I already answered that AJ. Getting The Reach is just a technicality. He now knows he is wanted (maybe needed). He is just setting himself up for payback no matter who wins. |
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on May 6, 2019 22:25:42 GMT
its not even about that although that’s part of it. The premise is silly. Tyrion would need to inform Dany of the promise to Bronn of Highgarden. Considering Bronn is double crossing everyone why wouldn’t he just assume that he is going to get double crossed over a prize so big? I would have preferred he just kill them or attempted to. Good point. But so what? Tyrion has made stupid deals before. He might have been thinking "Bronn could get killed. Then what difference would it make?" "Even if he survives, I could get killed. Once again, then what difference would it make?" "Even if we both survive, Bronn would take something else rather than just kill me." Tyrion has done this before. Thinking he can talk or think his way out later on, if and when they cross that bridge. The "so what" is I thought it was stupid.
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on May 6, 2019 22:28:58 GMT
I think movieliker is fairly new to GOt as evidenced by his not knowing Grey Worm or Hotpie. But I still respect his love for the show. But it seems to me he is not understanding the meaning of castle.
Catsle in GOT doesn't mean a beautiful castle alone. It means control over a certain area. Small Castles are like owning a few villages. But the Reach is one of the 7 kingdoms of a planet. Even a king cannot grant something like that to a cutthroat without displeasing almost all the inhabitants of that area. It is like if the USA were a kingdom and Bronn was promised Texas, Oklahoma, Kansas and Missouri combined. That's not possible. Simply not possible.
I already answered that AJ. Getting The Reach is just a technicality. He now knows he is wanted (maybe needed). He is just setting himself up for payback no matter who wins. Except he's not invincible. He has no leverage in having either promise kept. There's no reason to show honor to a dishonorable man.
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on May 6, 2019 22:30:22 GMT
He didn’t tho. All he did was make sure Tyrion and Jaime don’t trust him moving forward. They’re in no position to give him what he wants and he should know it. My biggest problem is that he should know better and is acting like he doesn’t. Why are they in no position to give him what he wants? If Dany sees him helping her defeat Cersei, certainly she will reward him. And Tyrion has influence with Dany. Arguably Jamie has influence with both Dany and Cersei. That's a win/win for him no matter what happens. He specifically said in the episode he isn't helping anyone.
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Post by movieliker on May 6, 2019 22:54:37 GMT
I already answered that AJ. Getting The Reach is just a technicality. He now knows he is wanted (maybe needed). He is just setting himself up for payback no matter who wins. Except he's not invincible. He has no leverage in having either promise kept. There's no reason to show honor to a dishonorable man. Cersie, Tyrion, Dany and Jaime have shown him appreciation and paid him for favors before. No reason for him to think they wouldn't pay up. |
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Post by movieliker on May 6, 2019 22:57:14 GMT
Why are they in no position to give him what he wants? If Dany sees him helping her defeat Cersei, certainly she will reward him. And Tyrion has influence with Dany. Arguably Jamie has influence with both Dany and Cersei. That's a win/win for him no matter what happens. He specifically said in the episode he isn't helping anyone. Who said that --- Bronn? If so, he means something for nothing. He needs to get paid for service. |
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on May 6, 2019 23:13:40 GMT
He specifically said in the episode he isn't helping anyone. Who said that --- Bronn? If so, he means something for nothing. He needs to get paid for service. He said he's done fighting but he's not done killing when he threatened them. The only reason to reward him is to not kill Tyrion (Jaime doesn't matter) and I can't think of a reason Dany would do that. Can you?
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on May 6, 2019 23:14:38 GMT
Except he's not invincible. He has no leverage in having either promise kept. There's no reason to show honor to a dishonorable man. Cersie, Tyrion, Dany and Jaime have shown him appreciation and paid him for favors before. No reason for him to think they wouldn't pay up. He has done nothing for Dany lol. He is literally betraying the rest of them in the scene lol Part II
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Post by movieliker on May 6, 2019 23:56:39 GMT
Who said that --- Bronn? If so, he means something for nothing. He needs to get paid for service. He said he's done fighting but he's not done killing when he threatened them. The only reason to reward him is to not kill Tyrion (Jaime doesn't matter) and I can't think of a reason Dany would do that. Can you? She would reward him for helping Dany take King's Landing. |
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