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Post by moviebuffbrad on May 7, 2019 5:35:32 GMT
I thought Lord of the Red Keep was an isolated whacko here in his Cersei defending, but Dany is rushing her tired people into battle, making thinly veiled threats to her own allies, and is about to light up the citizens of KL - children included, and still has people defending her. What a crazy board. Take a real, sober look at Cersei and you'll see a woman defending herself against constant adversity, nothing more. She gave a few excuses to the hate she is subjected to but did nothing to cause or even justify it. Yeah, and Dany is just a swell gal with bad advisors. You guys are nuts.
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Post by Leo of Red Keep on May 7, 2019 5:37:55 GMT
They’re forcing the story to make her malevolent. They have Tyrion trying to explain stuff but they march to completing the wonky plot line just like they did with arya and Sansa last season I agree with this completely. It IS being forced...everything about it is! Everything has become forced in later seasons in order to come down to the intellectual level of the mass audience. The first five seasons, in spite of their popularity, were too subtle for this. People were cheering for their "good guys" without realising they were the ones making the whole mess. Dumb dog lovers were revering Ned Stark without seeing that he was the one who consciously threw the shit pile into the fan. Daenerys was given the most directly ominous shot in S4, announcing a tyrant in the making in dark tones over twilight background and menacing music. Her dumb fans didn't notice. Here it is: Now they are making everything bold, flashy and underlined so the fools get it.
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Marendil
Sophomore
@marendil
Posts: 750
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Post by Marendil on May 7, 2019 6:22:14 GMT
I thought Lord of the Red Keep was an isolated whacko here in his Cersei defending, but Dany is rushing her tired people into battle, making thinly veiled threats to her own allies, and is about to light up the citizens of KL - children included, and still has people defending her. What a crazy board. What a ridiculous post.
To wit: What do you suppose armies normally do after battles? Sit and wait or retreat and pursue? Why would anyone consider Sansa Stark an authority on the subject? That scene was to demonstrate a growing rift between Sansa and Daenerys, not establish her as more capable in this regard than everyone else.
What 'thinly veiled threats to her own allies' are you talking about? Who on the show indicated a threat had been made, including the supposed recipient?
I presume by the last you mean Daenerys is about to assault King's Landing, which is what her Westerosi allies Olenna Tyrell, Yara Greyjoy and Ellaria Sand wanted her to do from the beginning. Who promised Olenna and Ellaria "Fire and Blood" before he found a new flavor of the month? Is it the same guy who was working from the start of the show to bring a foreign invasion to the shores of Westeros? Children are going to die with 'Fire and Blood' and invasions from Essos and without either or even with Jon Snow ruling a peaceful Westeros, Varys is merely justifying his latest preference for a new ruler who he might drop the moment he realizes he's not as 'temperate' as he thought. Varys has been one of my favorites from the beginning, but not because I think he is always right--nor any of them for that matter.
Whose only regret when presuming King's Landing was about to be sacked was that she wouldn't be able to see Cersei die? How can you 'defend' that and her not thinking of the children first?
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Post by Morgana on May 7, 2019 9:09:48 GMT
They're very deliberately showing her slowly cracking. She will be her own downfall, sadly. To be fair, it isn't all in her head. Tyrion, Varys, Sansa, Jon, Sam, and others have been actively (to one degree or another) talking behind her back about the idea of replacing her with someone else on the Iron Throne. Tyrion's council leads to her losing a lot of her allies/assets (Tyrells, Dothraki, Sand Snakes, etc.) and then he doesn't bother to even sit near her as her Hand after The Long Night...sitting next to a Lannister instead. Jon doesn't interact with her front of the Northerners, choosing to spend time with Tormund and other men instead. Jorah is dead, so the one person who could help her learn about the customs of Westeros (like he did in Essos) is gone. 1 dragon was dead at the time. Daario is M.I.A. Now's she's lost another dragon and Missandei. Things aren't looking good for her. I'm actually finding myself feeling for her a little bit...but I have the feeling this will dissipate with another of her extreme decisions. I agree with your post - it isn't all in her head. Sansa especially has been her enemy from day one, and now that she knows Jon is the rightful heir to the throne, she will do everything in her power to see that Dany never sits on it. Her telling Tyrion about Jon proves that. I don't like the heavy handed way the writers are portraying Dany. Though I've never been a big fan of hers, I'm also starting to feel sorry for her. I hoped she might appeal to Jon's feelings in a softer, more of an asking for help kind of way, which I think might have worked better than the 'threat' she made. In my opinion, whatever happens in the next two episodes is not going to satisfy me. I don't want to see Sansa rule the North - I have come to dislike her high-handed and cold demeanor, and who knows who will end up on the Iron throne.
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Post by Leo of Red Keep on May 7, 2019 9:42:46 GMT
I don't like the heavy handed way the writers are portraying Dany. Though I've never been a big fan of hers, I'm also starting to feel sorry for her. I hoped she might appeal to Jon's feelings in a softer, more of an asking for help kind of way, which I think might have worked better than the 'threat' she made. In my opinion, whatever happens in the next two episodes is not going to satisfy me. I don't want to see Sansa rule the North - I have come to dislike her high-handed and cold demeanor, and who knows who will end up on the Iron throne. The story always made sure to present characters in multiple lights so feelings would never be easy to those who can see. In the end, people make choices as to whom they like in spite of their flaws. As to the ending, the bittersweet part is that the fan favourites won't rule. Sansa will definitely end in a position of power.
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Post by anthonyrocks on May 7, 2019 10:12:57 GMT
I thought Lord of the Red Keep was an isolated whacko here in his Cersei defending, but Dany is rushing her tired people into battle, making thinly veiled threats to her own allies, and is about to light up the citizens of KL - children included, and still has people defending her. What a crazy board. moviebuffbrad!
Alright, and now your the one that is giving me the impression that you actually know something about the remaining episodes that everybody else here doesn't know.
Would I be correct ?
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Post by DSDSquared on May 7, 2019 14:14:24 GMT
What has Dany done so far that makes her a Mad Queen? I am curious because she seems to show restraint if anything. This assertion has been wrong from the beginning. I think everyone agrees that if she just attacked Kings Landing the day she showed up in Westeros that she would have easily won the war. She did not because she did not want to burn down the city and kill innocent people. She pays dearly for that by losing a lot of her allies. She can then attack again, but is advised against it and she listens. Then she goes North and loses half of her army to help defend it. No one seems to care. If anything, Sansa and the rest of the North hate her even more and want her out. She puts up with it because she wants peace and she loves Jon. Now she meets with Cersei to try and show that she can negotiate, even though she has no reason to. I think we forget that Cersei is the Mad Queen, not Dany. She destroyed the Sept and some of the city, killing thousands. She is also loading tons of refugees into her city for the specific purpose of stopping Dany from attacking. Even she knows that Dany is not cruel enough to attack. Cersei sure would have by now. She would have burned down the entire continent if she had to. Now her closest friend is beheaded in front of her and her other dragon is killed. She understandably gets angry and fans are like, "Oh crap look how mad she is. Mad Queen confirmed. Dany is evil now." What? Hilarious. Maybe she should have just charged the gates like a moron the way Jon obviously would have in the same situation. After all, he has done it before.
To top all of this off, you have dick Varys who is now plotting to overthrow yet another monarch for 'the realm'. Give me a break. His plan is to do nothing. His plan is to not attack. I get wanting to protect the innocent, but when does that take a back seat? Dany is losing badly. She has to attack to have any chance of winning. What would he have her do instead? He does not even know.
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Post by DSDSquared on May 7, 2019 14:17:21 GMT
I thought Lord of the Red Keep was an isolated whacko here in his Cersei defending, but Dany is rushing her tired people into battle, making thinly veiled threats to her own allies, and is about to light up the citizens of KL - children included, and still has people defending her. What a crazy board. Read the thread above. You are wrong.
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Post by Leo of Red Keep on May 7, 2019 14:32:10 GMT
What has Dany done so far that makes her a Mad Queen? She's not mad. She's your standard tyrant and anything that defends her is the last scum.
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northernlad
Sophomore
@northernlad
Posts: 898
Likes: 620
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Post by northernlad on May 7, 2019 15:05:03 GMT
What has Dany done so far that makes her a Mad Queen? I am curious because she seems to show restraint if anything. This assertion has been wrong from the beginning. I think everyone agrees that if she just attacked Kings Landing the day she showed up in Westeros that she would have easily won the war. She did not because she did not want to burn down the city and kill innocent people. She pays dearly for that by losing a lot of her allies. She can then attack again, but is advised against it and she listens. Then she goes North and loses half of her army to help defend it. No one seems to care. If anything, Sansa and the rest of the North hate her even more and want her out. She puts up with it because she wants peace and she loves Jon. Now she meets with Cersei to try and show that she can negotiate, even though she has no reason to. I think we forget that Cersei is the Mad Queen, not Dany. She destroyed the Sept and some of the city, killing thousands. She is also loading tons of refugees into her city for the specific purpose of stopping Dany from attacking. Even she knows that Dany is not cruel enough to attack. Cersei sure would have by now. She would have burned down the entire continent if she had to. Now her closest friend is beheaded in front of her and her other dragon is killed. She understandably gets angry and fans are like, "Oh crap look how mad she is. Mad Queen confirmed. Dany is evil now." What? Hilarious. Maybe she should have just charged the gates like a moron the way Jon obviously would have in the same situation. After all, he has done it before. To top all of this off, you have dick Varys who is now plotting to overthrow yet another monarch for 'the realm'. Give me a break. His plan is to do nothing. His plan is to not attack. I get wanting to protect the innocent, but when does that take a back seat? Dany is losing badly. She has to attack to have any chance of winning. What would he have her do instead? He does not even know. Very well put and I hate that the producers/writers are turning the story on a dime so to speak. It's sad actually...I've watched this show for many years and it seems as though they're rushing this final season and trying to force things. Characters aren't acting like they have for the previous 7 years. I'm shaking my head at that. I don't think Dany has EVER been portrayed as unstable or mad. But it seems as though, the writers want us to maybe think that now and the material just isn't there, not for me anyway.
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Post by Leo of Red Keep on May 7, 2019 15:10:56 GMT
I don't think Dany has EVER been portrayed as unstable or mad. She's never been and still is not. Daenerys is a tyrant, not a mad woman. It has been visible since S4 at the very least. I wonder how much of this talk about "mad" kings and queens is confused by people understanding the word in its "angry" sense. While it is commonly used this way in English, it does not apply here, meaning "insane" only. Now, Daenerys is often angry at things, that's definitely part of her character but that doesn't make her "mad" and she's been threatening to burn cities to the ground since S2 and make people die screaming since the finale of S1. So it's not exactly a surprise.
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Post by Winter_King on May 7, 2019 15:21:30 GMT
What has Dany done so far that makes her a Mad Queen? I am curious because she seems to show restraint if anything. This assertion has been wrong from the beginning. I think everyone agrees that if she just attacked Kings Landing the day she showed up in Westeros that she would have easily won the war. She did not because she did not want to burn down the city and kill innocent people. She pays dearly for that by losing a lot of her allies. She can then attack again, but is advised against it and she listens. Then she goes North and loses half of her army to help defend it. No one seems to care. If anything, Sansa and the rest of the North hate her even more and want her out. She puts up with it because she wants peace and she loves Jon. Now she meets with Cersei to try and show that she can negotiate, even though she has no reason to. I think we forget that Cersei is the Mad Queen, not Dany. She destroyed the Sept and some of the city, killing thousands. She is also loading tons of refugees into her city for the specific purpose of stopping Dany from attacking. Even she knows that Dany is not cruel enough to attack. Cersei sure would have by now. She would have burned down the entire continent if she had to. Now her closest friend is beheaded in front of her and her other dragon is killed. She understandably gets angry and fans are like, "Oh crap look how mad she is. Mad Queen confirmed. Dany is evil now." What? Hilarious. Maybe she should have just charged the gates like a moron the way Jon obviously would have in the same situation. After all, he has done it before. To top all of this off, you have dick Varys who is now plotting to overthrow yet another monarch for 'the realm'. Give me a break. His plan is to do nothing. His plan is to not attack. I get wanting to protect the innocent, but when does that take a back seat? Dany is losing badly. She has to attack to have any chance of winning. What would he have her do instead? He does not even know. Very well put and I hate that the producers/writers are turning the story on a dime so to speak. It's sad actually...I've watched this show for many years and it seems as though they're rushing this final season and trying to force things. Characters aren't acting like they have for the previous 7 years. I'm shaking my head at that. I don't think Dany has EVER been portrayed as unstable or mad. But it seems as though, the writers want us to maybe think that now and the material just isn't there, not for me anyway. She is "Aegon Targaryen with tits". She didn't lay waste to slaver's bay by being a timid ruler. Her cruel streak has always been present since season 1 but has increasingly become more pronounced as she came to Westeros. Mind you this is for the most part speculation, but the idea that she becoming the Mad Queen is not something that was pulled off out of their asses but was played upon several times in the past. She often reacted in a vindictive manner even when she was advised against to. One of the most obvious examples, was back when she was in Meeren and the people started hissing at her. That being said, I agree that this is rushed and it's pretty clear that D&D had enough material to deliver two full seasons instead of the two short ones we've got. In fact, I would argue that the episode the Long Night should've been the season 7 finale. And this season should be focused on the war for the throne.
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Post by jon snow loves sansa on May 7, 2019 15:36:34 GMT
Daenerys Targaryen's Fans are Really Gonna Go Berserk if She turns Evil. anthony they already have , i dont know if you go to youtube at all well there a lot of GOT "experts" who do these weekly videos talking about the show for years now they actually make money out of it too getting their videos sponsored well these pundits are literally having a meltdown over dany they literally have villi-vied every other character on the show and trying to come up with any excuse they can think of to make her seem the victim i mean the latest i heard i was actually crying tears of laughter what one of these morons said
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Post by Leo of Red Keep on May 7, 2019 15:45:38 GMT
Daenerys Targaryen's Fans are Really Gonna Go Berserk if She turns Evil. anthony they already have , i dont know if you go to youtube at all well there a lot of GOT "experts" who do these weekly videos talking about the show for years now they actually make money out of it too getting their videos sponsored well these pundits are literally having a meltdown over dany they literally have villi-vied every other character on the show and trying to come up with any excuse they can think of to make her seem the victim i mean the latest i heard i was actually crying tears of laughter what one of these morons said Have they? I'm just watching GoT Academy and they feel their long running theories are all coming true. They always said Daenerys would turn bad, calling her "the Stalin who mounts the world" (I stole that from them but they were only putting a fun name on what I thought before). They were also the first one to announce Queen Sansa four years ago (May 2015), drawing the parallel to Elizabeth I. Well done and too bad for the dimwits who are surprised and saw nothing coming.
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Post by jon snow loves sansa on May 7, 2019 15:53:13 GMT
anthony they already have , i dont know if you go to youtube at all well there a lot of GOT "experts" who do these weekly videos talking about the show for years now they actually make money out of it too getting their videos sponsored well these pundits are literally having a meltdown over dany they literally have villi-vied every other character on the show and trying to come up with any excuse they can think of to make her seem the victim i mean the latest i heard i was actually crying tears of laughter what one of these morons said Have they? I'm just watching GoT Academy and they feel their long running theories are all coming true. They always said Daenerys would turn bad, calling her "the Stalin who mounts the world" (I stole that from them but they were only putting a fun name on what I thought before). They were also the first one to announce Queen Sansa four years ago (May 2015), drawing the parallel to Elizabeth I. Well done and too bad for the dimwits who are surprised and saw nothing coming. watching these right now thank you for the links yes they are kinda losing it not making sense one of them is this guy listen to what he says they will make dany seem the mosnter she is NOT and this one is even better was laughing so much because of what he suggested first of all he is waiting for the magical targ baby to arrive or happen and the other thing he hopes for the surviving dragon drogo actually flips genders like catelyin jenner and drogon can actually lay eggs so the targ dynasty or dragons can continue ..lol they are so stupid i cant..lol
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Post by anthonyrocks on May 7, 2019 16:51:37 GMT
Daenerys Targaryen's Fans are Really Gonna Go Berserk if She turns Evil. anthony they already have , i dont know if you go to youtube at all well there a lot of GOT "experts" who do these weekly videos talking about the show for years now they actually make money out of it too getting their videos sponsored well these pundits are literally having a meltdown over dany they literally have villi-vied every other character on the show and trying to come up with any excuse they can think of to make her seem the victim i mean the latest i heard i was actually crying tears of laughter what one of these morons said Yeah, I actually do go on YOUTUBE a lot and I do know of a few of the videos that you are talking about.
Having said that, I also know of a lot of Fans of Daenerys Targaryen on YOUTUBE that still see her as a Good Guy (I still see her as that as well but I will concede that Sunday's Episode sure did make it seem like she is about to go over to the Dark Side) and if she does indeed turn Evil (I still really am going to have to see it to believe it if it happens) in these Final 2 Episodes then they are all most definitely gonna be shocked and go berserk.
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Post by jon snow loves sansa on May 7, 2019 17:00:15 GMT
anthony they already have , i dont know if you go to youtube at all well there a lot of GOT "experts" who do these weekly videos talking about the show for years now they actually make money out of it too getting their videos sponsored well these pundits are literally having a meltdown over dany they literally have villi-vied every other character on the show and trying to come up with any excuse they can think of to make her seem the victim i mean the latest i heard i was actually crying tears of laughter what one of these morons said Yeah, I actually do go on YOUTUBE a lot and I do know of a few of the videos that you are talking about.
Having said that, I also know of a lot of Fans of Daenerys Targaryen on YOUTUBE that still see her as a Good Guy (I still see her as that as well but I will concede that Sunday's Episode sure did make it seem like she is about to go over to the Dark Side) and if she does indeed turn Evil (I still really am going to have to see it to believe it if it happens) in these Final 2 Episodes then they are all most definitely gonna be shocked and go berserk.
the writer himself not so may words has confirmed dany going dark many believe like Leo she has always been like that and if you look through her actions through the seasons you can see what he is talking about dany is used to winning a lot she was never challenged in council meetings or questioned she disciplines by burning if you dont agree with her thats not good rulling , she demands respect without working for it because she has dragons , she used to rule in lands were slavery was common and she was seen upon a saviour and its easy for fans to cheer when someone executes someone who abuses children or does bad stuff but it was shown over and over she didnt know how to rule she had other people clean up her messes her only power is she cant burn even though in the books she can and her three dragons without her dragons it is over her mental state of mind is not one you want for a ruler what was it tywin lannister used to say "Any man who must say, "I am the King", is no true king. ..." dany repeatedly says she is queen over and over and over..
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Post by anthonyrocks on May 7, 2019 17:08:31 GMT
Yeah, I actually do go on YOUTUBE a lot and I do know of a few of the videos that you are talking about.
Having said that, I also know of a lot of Fans of Daenerys Targaryen on YOUTUBE that still see her as a Good Guy (I still see her as that as well but I will concede that Sunday's Episode sure did make it seem like she is about to go over to the Dark Side) and if she does indeed turn Evil (I still really am going to have to see it to believe it if it happens) in these Final 2 Episodes then they are all most definitely gonna be shocked and go berserk.
the writer himself not so may words has confirmed dany going dark many believe like Leo she has always been like that and if you look through her actions through the seasons you can see what he is talking about dany is used to winning a lot she was never challenged in council meetings or questioned she disciplines by burning if you dont agree with her thats not good rulling , she demands respect without working for it because she has dragons , she used to rule in lands were slavery was common and she was seen upon a saviour and its easy for fans to cheer when someone executes someone who abuses children or does bad stuff but it was shown over and over she didnt know how to rule she had other people clean up her messes her only power is she cant burn even though in the books she can and her three dragons without her dragons it is over her mental state of mind is not one you want for a ruler what was it tywin lannister used to say "Any man who must say, "I am the King", is no true king. ..." dany repeatedly says she is queen over and over and over.. If you don't mind me asking you this, How do you honestly expect and think we will actually see Daenerys Targaryen really turn evil (I mean like if happens, then if they do it in a way that will just leave absolutely no more doubt about it at all) ?
Supposedly, There are Spoilers out somewhere that already reveal that. I have no idea where those supposed Spoilers are though because I myself would love to see them.
If there is anybody here who has already seen them then if you can, please post a clickable link to where I (and anybody else here who would be interested in seeing them) can see them.
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Post by Leo of Red Keep on May 7, 2019 17:23:10 GMT
If you don't mind me ask you this, How do you honestly expect and think we will actually see Daenerys Targaryen really turn evil You won't because you don't want to. She is already. Do not ask someone prove you the earth is not flat. Take a look yourself, it's all there plain to see. Never mind, here goes another stinking danidiot anyway.
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Post by President Ackbar™ on May 7, 2019 17:32:54 GMT
the writer himself not so may words has confirmed dany going dark *MASSIVE SPOILERS FOR THE REST OF SEASON 8!*
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