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Post by merh on May 26, 2019 14:58:19 GMT
Or they can save time & money & go with a more mature actor. Considering there are dozens in any category to choose from. He would have to be a very amazing choice. Don't forget the audience reaction as well. They might balk at a young actor portraying the character In other words, you're saying age matters in a role, as well as audience reaction to said age. Right? Dude, when I worked at Montgomery Ward in the 80s female sales staff were not allowed to wear slacks on the salesfloor. Only dress/skirt and pantyhose. Guys couldnt have beards. It was so as not to offend anyone who might want to shop there. I was speaking with a co-worker about a friend who wanted to work at Disneyland, but because he had tattoos down to his wrist, he wasnt hired. Tattoos have to be hidden under the uniform which was short sleeved. Because they don't want to offend customers. The role of James Bond screams smooth, suave, mature male. People under 25 are perceived as still in the sowing wild oats/toss tvs out hotel windows/drunk fights stage of life. So the point of this thread was that Charlize Theron was insulted to be asked to play a mother which is often the slide into the downside of a career for actresses while the OP suggested she was stupid to believe this because Amazons are ageless(though they obviously age). My point was the sexism in the entertainment industry burns through female performers faster because their perceived desirability peaks younger while males remain desirable longer, well into their 60s because they are perceived as growing older, wiser, mature yet still virile while women are described as having dusty old eggs/useless by that age. That a 50 yr old Bruce Willis would not be cast against a 55 yr old Cybill Shepherd when there was no problem casting a 30 yr old Willis as the romantic interest to 35 yr old Shepherd in Moonlighting. Willis (3/19/55) was cast against Mary-Louise Parker (8/2/64) in Red Because Hollywood sells dreams. Hot teens. Older men who aren't losers. Happily ever after. People are buying a couple hours to forget how poorly their own lives have turned out.
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Post by Skaathar on May 26, 2019 18:27:49 GMT
In other words, you're saying age matters in a role, as well as audience reaction to said age. Right? Dude, when I worked at Montgomery Ward in the 80s female sales staff were not allowed to wear slacks on the salesfloor. Only dress/skirt and pantyhose. Guys couldnt have beards. It was so as not to offend anyone who might want to shop there. I was speaking with a co-worker about a friend who wanted to work at Disneyland, but because he had tattoos down to his wrist, he wasnt hired. Tattoos have to be hidden under the uniform which was short sleeved. Because they don't want to offend customers. The role of James Bond screams smooth, suave, mature male. People under 25 are perceived as still in the sowing wild oats/toss tvs out hotel windows/drunk fights stage of life. So the point of this thread was that Charlize Theron was insulted to be asked to play a mother which is often the slide into the downside of a career for actresses while the OP suggested she was stupid to believe this because Amazons are ageless(though they obviously age). My point was the sexism in the entertainment industry burns through female performers faster because their perceived desirability peaks younger while males remain desirable longer, well into their 60s because they are perceived as growing older, wiser, mature yet still virile while women are described as having dusty old eggs/useless by that age. That a 50 yr old Bruce Willis would not be cast against a 55 yr old Cybill Shepherd when there was no problem casting a 30 yr old Willis as the romantic interest to 35 yr old Shepherd in Moonlighting. Willis (3/19/55) was cast against Mary-Louise Parker (8/2/64) in Red Because Hollywood sells dreams. Hot teens. Older men who aren't losers. Happily ever after. People are buying a couple hours to forget how poorly their own lives have turned out. And my point was that biologically, men tend to hit their physical prime (in terms of attractiveness) later than women. Which is why it's easier for women to land leading roles in their 20's to 30's whereas men have an easier time landing leading roles in their 30's to 40's. My point was that it's not such a one-way street. And while Cavill at 22 was considered too young to play a suave, top super agent, people certainly had no problems when Scarjo was cast at around 23-24 yrs old to play a suave, top super agent. So while there is ageism at play here, it burns both males and females, just in different manners. There's also the biological factor to consider that women do indeed peak earlier than men (generally) in terms of physical attractiveness. And unfortunately, physical attractiveness is a prime factor in Hollywood. |
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Post by merh on May 26, 2019 23:04:14 GMT
Dude, when I worked at Montgomery Ward in the 80s female sales staff were not allowed to wear slacks on the salesfloor. Only dress/skirt and pantyhose. Guys couldnt have beards. It was so as not to offend anyone who might want to shop there. I was speaking with a co-worker about a friend who wanted to work at Disneyland, but because he had tattoos down to his wrist, he wasnt hired. Tattoos have to be hidden under the uniform which was short sleeved. Because they don't want to offend customers. The role of James Bond screams smooth, suave, mature male. People under 25 are perceived as still in the sowing wild oats/toss tvs out hotel windows/drunk fights stage of life. So the point of this thread was that Charlize Theron was insulted to be asked to play a mother which is often the slide into the downside of a career for actresses while the OP suggested she was stupid to believe this because Amazons are ageless(though they obviously age). My point was the sexism in the entertainment industry burns through female performers faster because their perceived desirability peaks younger while males remain desirable longer, well into their 60s because they are perceived as growing older, wiser, mature yet still virile while women are described as having dusty old eggs/useless by that age. That a 50 yr old Bruce Willis would not be cast against a 55 yr old Cybill Shepherd when there was no problem casting a 30 yr old Willis as the romantic interest to 35 yr old Shepherd in Moonlighting. Willis (3/19/55) was cast against Mary-Louise Parker (8/2/64) in Red Because Hollywood sells dreams. Hot teens. Older men who aren't losers. Happily ever after. People are buying a couple hours to forget how poorly their own lives have turned out. And my point was that biologically, men tend to hit their physical prime (in terms of attractiveness) later than women. Which is why it's easier for women to land leading roles in their 20's to 30's whereas men have an easier time landing leading roles in their 30's to 40's. My point was that it's not such a one-way street. I'm not feeling your pain. Why do guys always see themselves as the victim? ... We talking about the same character? So 1964-1941=23+small child 5? So roughly in the range of Scarjo - 2010(IM2)-1984= 26. Who ever said Widow was James Bond? She was trained from childhood to get info by whatever means. Sex. Violence. Stealing. There was never a James Bond aura. She could hold her own at a party, but she is an assassin & spy ... So women can just go fuck ourselves? It's our own fault? Im imagining all the Mark Hamill types?
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Post by merh on May 26, 2019 23:17:14 GMT
Just got back from Aladdin.
You know what the biggest problem?
Jafar.
I always saw him as 40-50 by how he was drawn. Jaded. Bitter. This guy is 36, 9 yrs older than Aladdin. Not really evil.
So yeah, age matters.
Should have been Oded Fehr.
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Post by Skaathar on May 26, 2019 23:40:09 GMT
And my point was that biologically, men tend to hit their physical prime (in terms of attractiveness) later than women. Which is why it's easier for women to land leading roles in their 20's to 30's whereas men have an easier time landing leading roles in their 30's to 40's. My point was that it's not such a one-way street. I'm not feeling your pain. Why do guys always see themselves as the victim? ... We talking about the same character? So 1964-1941=23+small child 5? So roughly in the range of Scarjo - 2010(IM2)-1984= 26. Who ever said Widow was James Bond? She was trained from childhood to get info by whatever means. Sex. Violence. Stealing. There was never a James Bond aura. She could hold her own at a party, but she is an assassin & spy ... So women can just go fuck ourselves? It's our own fault? Im imagining all the Mark Hamill types? Freaking hell Merh, why do you always need to play the victim card and turn everything into a "women vs. men" scenario? In no way, shape or form did I say "women can just go fuck themselves". In no way, shape or form did I say that women were not getting discriminated against for their age in Hollywood. In no way, shape or form did I say men had it harder than women in Hollywood. The only point I was trying to make were these 3 things: 1: Biological age and attractivess are also factors in landing leading roles. 2: Women hit their physical prime (in terms of attractiveness) earlier than men do. 3: Men (in Hollywood) are generally considered more attractive in their 30's to 40's compared to their late teens to 20's, whereas women are generally found more attractive between their late teens to early 30's. Notice that in none of those things I mentioned did I ever say that women weren't being discriminated against or that they need to suck it up or that men had things harder. All I'm saying is that men and women age differently in terms of physical attractiveness and that this is a factor in Hollywood. That's a fact. So please stop making everything into some kind of sex war. I wasn't trying to say one had it better than the other, I was merely pointing out a few differences. Are we no longer capable of objectively discussing the differences between men and women without turning it into a competition between the sexes? |
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Post by merh on May 27, 2019 1:02:38 GMT
I'm not feeling your pain. Why do guys always see themselves as the victim? ... We talking about the same character? So 1964-1941=23+small child 5? So roughly in the range of Scarjo - 2010(IM2)-1984= 26. Who ever said Widow was James Bond? She was trained from childhood to get info by whatever means. Sex. Violence. Stealing. There was never a James Bond aura. She could hold her own at a party, but she is an assassin & spy ... So women can just go fuck ourselves? It's our own fault? Im imagining all the Mark Hamill types? Freaking hell Merh, why do you always need to play the victim card and turn everything into a "women vs. men" scenario? In no way, shape or form did I say "women can just go fuck themselves". In no way, shape or form did I say that women were not getting discriminated against for their age in Hollywood. In no way, shape or form did I say men had it harder than women in Hollywood. The only point I was trying to make were these 3 things: 1: Biological age and attractivess are also factors in landing leading roles. 2: Women hit their physical prime (in terms of attractiveness) earlier than men do. 3: Men (in Hollywood) are generally considered more attractive in their 30's to 40's compared to their late teens to 20's, whereas women are generally found more attractive between their late teens to early 30's. Notice that in none of those things I mentioned did I ever say that women weren't being discriminated against or that they need to suck it up or that men had things harder. All I'm saying is that men and women age differently in terms of physical attractiveness and that this is a factor in Hollywood. That's a fact. So please stop making everything into some kind of sex war. I wasn't trying to say one had it better than the other, I was merely pointing out a few differences. Are we no longer capable of objectively discussing the differences between men and women without turning it into a competition between the sexes? Sorry. Though yeah. It always has been. Maybe I'm just a bit bitter after turning 59. But the point is maybe guys are seen as irresponsible until around age 30. Some mature faster, but most are seen in the keg-draining, party hearty, surfer dude type in their early 20s. Girls may not be mature as they are something to manipulate into bed in their 20s before they become older & wiser. A bunch of bikini-clad teens in a film are not exuding maturity, but raw sexual desirability Like I said, they really screwed Jafar making him young & pretty. He needs some years in there to have become bitter with his lot in life. So we really don't need pretty young things in every role. A co-worker has been saying she wants Hemsworth as Bond & no. He has no chance in hell. I've been seeing Richard Madden tossed around as next & he has the build. Not sure I see Cavill in the role. But there was a lot of fuss over Brosnan. He wanted the part worse than anything That was it. I remember all the fuss, but never watched Bond films. I did love Remington Steele, though they sort of ruined it by his not knowing his past. When it was he was keeping it from her, it was far more interesting. But as I said about Jafar, the actor lacks the gravitas to play the character. I am suddenly worried about Hunchback of Notre Dame. "Hellfire" is wicked & we need a nasty old pervert in the role, but who knows? And Charlize Theron still needs to pick each role because as Meryl Streep worried, after age 40, they dry up for women. Though Hollywood is cruel. It claws through flesh with little care to anyone lasting more than 5 minutes. One of the things I liked about the original Charmed was it used actresses who had prior shows under their belts meaning they could easily have seen work dry up. We don't always need a fresh face. One of the good things about the old studio system was they invested in their talent so they kept it going. Now they seem to always want new blood. I really like Cavill as Supes, but I fear DC is done with him. He has the charm of Reeve when they let him shine. I loved him in Man From UNCLE as well, but that failed to catch on. But sorry again. Grumpy old lady day.
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Post by ThatGuy on May 27, 2019 16:42:30 GMT
www.msn.com/en-us/movies/news/charlize-theron-being-asked-to-play-gal-gadots-mom-in-wonder-woman-is-a-slap-in-the-face/ar-AAAW42D?li=BBnbfcL&ocid=mailsignout
In the article Theron complains that she was asked to play the mother of Gal Gadot (in Wonder Woman) who is only 9 years younger than herself. Clearly she doesn't understand about amazons.
In all fairness she does claim to not know much about Wonder Woman's mythology. Okay, fair enough. But since this event happened she must have found out about how amazons work, and she still chooses to tell the story as if she was slighted, instead of explaining what the misunderstanding was.
For those who don't know, amazons are ageless and immortal. So they could have asked her to play a 1000 year old amazon and it would have been the same. So...
Don't get me wrong, I LOVE Charlize Theron, she's great and I think of her as one of the few actresses with balls enough to rough and tumble with the guys in movies. But this just seemed a little whiny to me.
Thoughts? She states the slap was being asked to play a mom because that is what Hollywood does to older actresses Sorry it's an insult to your fanboy sensibilities she was more focused on the age line Hollywood draws in the sand for actresses. Cybill Shepard addressed this problem years ago, pointing out Bruce Willis is 5 yrs her junior, but by the 00s Hollywood would more likely cast an actress 20 yrs her junior as his love interest while she would be cast as his mom. Less a comment on Wonder Woman & more a commentary on the Hollywood casting mentality I think she probably flat out turned it down after hearing that it's her mom and not the explanation of the character. Hypolita filled in as Wonder Woman at one point in the comics. She's a youngish queen because they all stopped aging at a certain point. Don't think she got that far into who the character is.
Also, isn't worrying about getting old or seen as old just a part of her own self-confidence or ego. I mean Kidman is 12 years older than Momoa.
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Post by merh on May 27, 2019 18:53:58 GMT
She states the slap was being asked to play a mom because that is what Hollywood does to older actresses Sorry it's an insult to your fanboy sensibilities she was more focused on the age line Hollywood draws in the sand for actresses. Cybill Shepard addressed this problem years ago, pointing out Bruce Willis is 5 yrs her junior, but by the 00s Hollywood would more likely cast an actress 20 yrs her junior as his love interest while she would be cast as his mom. Less a comment on Wonder Woman & more a commentary on the Hollywood casting mentality I think she probably flat out turned it down after hearing that it's her mom and not the explanation of the character. Hypolita filled in as Wonder Woman at one point in the comics. She's a youngish queen because they all stopped aging at a certain point. Don't think she got that far into who the character is. Also, isn't worrying about getting old or seen as old just a part of her own self-confidence or ego. I mean Kidman is 12 years older than Momoa.
Yeah, she does have an ego. Most actors have to have a certain amount. I saw her at the CCI Huntsman panel prick up when Stewart tried to puff herself up bigger than Theron. It's a tough field where there are always people coming up behind one. The odds for gals get tougher after 40. All the stars who never were are parking cars & pumping gas. While the has-beens keep clinging to past glories. One is only an active actor so long as one gets roles. After that one is "retired"
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Post by ThatGuy on May 27, 2019 20:39:08 GMT
I think she probably flat out turned it down after hearing that it's her mom and not the explanation of the character. Hypolita filled in as Wonder Woman at one point in the comics. She's a youngish queen because they all stopped aging at a certain point. Don't think she got that far into who the character is. Also, isn't worrying about getting old or seen as old just a part of her own self-confidence or ego. I mean Kidman is 12 years older than Momoa.
Yeah, she does have an ego. Most actors have to have a certain amount. I saw her at the CCI Huntsman panel prick up when Stewart tried to puff herself up bigger than Theron. It's a tough field where there are always people coming up behind one. The odds for gals get tougher after 40. All the stars who never were are parking cars & pumping gas. While the has-beens keep clinging to past glories. One is only an active actor so long as one gets roles. After that one is "retired" But she's still getting roles... Or do you mean starring roles?
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Post by merh on May 27, 2019 21:09:53 GMT
Yeah, she does have an ego. Most actors have to have a certain amount. I saw her at the CCI Huntsman panel prick up when Stewart tried to puff herself up bigger than Theron. It's a tough field where there are always people coming up behind one. The odds for gals get tougher after 40. All the stars who never were are parking cars & pumping gas. While the has-beens keep clinging to past glories. One is only an active actor so long as one gets roles. After that one is "retired" But she's still getting roles... Or do you mean starring roles? Because she is fighting to get good roles & not be relegated to "special guest star" status. I have the Thor artbook from when that movie came out. Apparently Hopkins had decided to retire because the scripts he was being sent all sucked big time. It was the chance to work with Branaugh that interested him
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Post by ThatGuy on May 28, 2019 17:02:10 GMT
But she's still getting roles... Or do you mean starring roles? Because she is fighting to get good roles & not be relegated to "special guest star" status. I have the Thor artbook from when that movie came out. Apparently Hopkins had decided to retire because the scripts he was being sent all sucked big time. It was the chance to work with Branaugh that interested him I don't think she has anything to worry about for about 15-20 years. lol
But then he did Transformers...
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