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Post by xystophoros on May 11, 2019 1:52:45 GMT
This. It’s glaringly obvious to the point where I can’t believe there’s a three-page thread about it. But on top of that, Sansa came right out and told Daenerys she doesn’t want the North to be subservient to her. I don’t know how much clearer it can be. i agree sansa played it smart ,and honestly i dont see anythign wrong with wanting jon on the throne she loves him and thinks of him a better ruler than dany and in a way she did it so he doesnt need to hide anymore who he really is ,dany is all about freeing slaves and freedom but yet wants to keep jon in chains , i do not understand that isnt enough that sansas father kept a secret for so long and resulted in so much pain so many members of her family were lost , she did the right thing and its my believe by end of the story it would will be for the best telling tyrion dany already has threatened sansa to jon even though sansa doesnt know about it , jon seems to want sansa to play by dany rules because he is fearful of what dany can do them,sansa is more political and uses her brain not dragons sometimes using your brain is better than burning cities to the ground you really dont need to burn cities to win game of thrones. I agree with most of what you said, except I think Jon isn’t scared of Daenerys, he’s blinded by his love for her. He doesn’t seem to see the violent/unhinged side of her. The other interesting thing is that we didn’t see Sansa tell Tyrion outright about Jon’s parentage. She may have said something as simple as “Ask Samwell Tarly what he discovered in the Citadel records about Rhaegar and Lyanna Stark.” It’s functionally the same as telling him, but might give her plausible deniability. Either way we knew the secret was going to come out and cause problems.
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Post by Leo of Red Keep on May 11, 2019 2:54:52 GMT
Again I wasn't very clear. When I said Sansa wants Jon on the Iron throne I meant because they wouldn't really need to be independent because she would trust him enough to know he wouldn't do anything to harm the North. Regarding why they mistrust Dany, honestly I don't really understand it either. What makes even less sense is why they decided to make the last season so short. Perhaps if there were more episodes they could have cleared up a lot of things that people are getting upset about because they feel rushed or even to have come out of nowhere. i think it’s budget. Although the stories have been mediocre the past couple of seasons the production value is high and HBO is holding them to a budget. This season probably cost the same as a 10 episode season even with a bottle episode like episode 2. However any extra time could have been spent on dialogue which doesn’t cost a lot. For instance they could have spent 2 minutes with Sansa after she learned about Jon’s lineage. Dialogue costs the attention of morons who want action, emotional character reunions and silly sex scenes. I also think they are preparing Sansa as the next ruler for idiots to hate, so her actions are intentionally kept ambiguous. This started in S6.
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on May 11, 2019 12:12:05 GMT
i agree sansa played it smart ,and honestly i dont see anythign wrong with wanting jon on the throne she loves him and thinks of him a better ruler than dany and in a way she did it so he doesnt need to hide anymore who he really is ,dany is all about freeing slaves and freedom but yet wants to keep jon in chains , i do not understand that isnt enough that sansas father kept a secret for so long and resulted in so much pain so many members of her family were lost , she did the right thing and its my believe by end of the story it would will be for the best telling tyrion dany already has threatened sansa to jon even though sansa doesnt know about it , jon seems to want sansa to play by dany rules because he is fearful of what dany can do them,sansa is more political and uses her brain not dragons sometimes using your brain is better than burning cities to the ground you really dont need to burn cities to win game of thrones. I agree with most of what you said, except I think Jon isn’t scared of Daenerys, he’s blinded by his love for her. He doesn’t seem to see the violent/unhinged side of her. The other interesting thing is that we didn’t see Sansa tell Tyrion outright about Jon’s parentage. She may have said something as simple as “Ask Samwell Tarly what he discovered in the Citadel records about Rhaegar and Lyanna Stark.” It’s functionally the same as telling him, but might give her plausible deniability. Either way we knew the secret was going to come out and cause problems. Lol at violent/unhinged side
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Post by jon snow loves sansa on May 11, 2019 19:29:16 GMT
That is your own interpretation why she did it ,that is not why she did it , she told Tyrion why she did it and in that scene I posted you can clearly see that .Yes gendry is only other family she has left besides Jon but you know what? ? I don't think family means much to targaryens , she already told Jon to lie who he is, that is not what family does , stannis who has Targaryen blood captured gendry and used him for blood magic and would have executed him if it wasn't for Davos ,stannis burned his own little girl it has been shown over and over that targaryens don't care much about family but only power stannis was obsessed getting the throne and having people bend the knee just like Dany , are you going to deny that ? I was going by the fact she announced it at the victory feast, a fitting venue for awards and recognition.
Why didn't she feed him to her dragons? They must have been hungry after the big battle!
because that would have been too obvious  give it time 
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Post by jon snow loves sansa on May 11, 2019 19:54:30 GMT
i agree sansa played it smart ,and honestly i dont see anythign wrong with wanting jon on the throne she loves him and thinks of him a better ruler than dany and in a way she did it so he doesnt need to hide anymore who he really is ,dany is all about freeing slaves and freedom but yet wants to keep jon in chains , i do not understand that isnt enough that sansas father kept a secret for so long and resulted in so much pain so many members of her family were lost , she did the right thing and its my believe by end of the story it would will be for the best telling tyrion dany already has threatened sansa to jon even though sansa doesnt know about it , jon seems to want sansa to play by dany rules because he is fearful of what dany can do them,sansa is more political and uses her brain not dragons sometimes using your brain is better than burning cities to the ground you really dont need to burn cities to win game of thrones. I agree with most of what you said, except I think Jon isn’t scared of Daenerys, he’s blinded by his love for her. He doesn’t seem to see the violent/unhinged side of her. The other interesting thing is that we didn’t see Sansa tell Tyrion outright about Jon’s parentage. She may have said something as simple as “Ask Samwell Tarly what he discovered in the Citadel records about Rhaegar and Lyanna Stark.” It’s functionally the same as telling him, but might give her plausible deniability. Either way we knew the secret was going to come out and cause problems. Thats a good point we didnt see sansa actually saying the words to him . This season is very cryptic a lot of conversations end in cliffhangers If there is any love between jon and dany its not convincing writers doing a really bad job writing romance . And to be fair to them they have written romance before and it was good even if it was stupid, example rob/talisa , khal/dany Yrgitte/jon ,so they are capable of doing romance i just think the lack of chemistry with jon/dany is by design. Initially i thought dany was head over heels in love with jon but now i start to doubt it , especially after how she reacted upon finding out jon is a targaryen ,i think shes in love with the idea of being in love with jon , remember what she told tyrion about darrio , she couldn't feel anything for him ,dany has no empathy ,no feelings, she only has one main goal the iron throne -and this could come into play in your theory ( dany killing jon ) Despite what i believe who jon loves or not , when jon is around dany he looks awkward and uncomfortable and not in a crush kinda way when they kiss it looks forced and uncomfortable when his back is turned away from her he makes skeptical ,worried facial expressions , and when he is facing her he is doing all he can to please her physically and verbally trying hard to keep her "happy" tells her what she wants to hear . You do that to someone you dont trust , someone who is unstable , or someone you are scared of may do things to hurt people you love. One of many jon's expressions when dany speaks.( hall meeting before WW attack) 
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Marendil
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Post by Marendil on May 11, 2019 20:24:18 GMT
I was going by the fact she announced it at the victory feast, a fitting venue for awards and recognition.
Why didn't she feed him to her dragons? They must have been hungry after the big battle!
because that would have been too obvious give it time Well, she has fewer dragons to feed now so it ought to be less of a problem!
Incidentally, rewarding deserving people for their efforts and that causing them to be loyal are not mutually exclusive, they're complimentary actually. Another thing that demonstrated was she doesn't hold Gendry responsible for his father's actions. She was being magnanimous and that having benefits is a positive thing in my view and it's not a bad thing that people recognize it.
I don't think vittles for her pets is her concern right now, I think she's likely to sack King's Landing. In "Behind the Wall" Tyrion warned Daenerys that Cersei might try to provoke her, and I think that's what the death of Missendei was intended to do, lure Dany and Drogon into the range of those scorpions in a rage. It didn't work as designed but my guess is we'll see another 'enough with the clever plans' moment.
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Post by jon snow loves sansa on May 11, 2019 21:04:41 GMT
because that would have been too obvious give it time Well, she has fewer dragons to feed now so it ought to be less of a problem!
Incidentally, rewarding deserving people for their efforts and that causing them to be loyal are not mutually exclusive, they're complimentary actually. Another thing that demonstrated was she doesn't hold Gendry responsible for his father's actions. She was being magnanimous and that having benefits is a positive thing in my view and it's not a bad thing that people recognize it.
I don't think vittles for her pets is her concern right now, I think she's likely to sack King's Landing. In "Behind the Wall" Tyrion warned Daenerys that Cersei might try to provoke her, and I think that's what the death of Missendei was intended to do, lure Dany and Drogon into the range of those scorpions in a rage. It didn't work as designed but my guess is we'll see another 'enough with the clever plans' moment.
i agree with that i do not think for a moment dany will listen to tyrion and she will go ballistic but i think her actions will have severe consequences even emilia has confirmed episode 5 was very hard for her to film from vanity fair Emilia Clarke said Season 8 “fucked me up. I think if I knew there was another season maybe it wouldn’t have fucked me up in the same way but knowing that is going to be a lasting flavor in someone’s mouth of what [Daenerys] is. It just puts more weight on it. It becomes harder to separate you from the role when you’ve been with it for so long.”
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Post by Leo of Red Keep on May 11, 2019 21:22:34 GMT
I think if I knew there was another season maybe it wouldn’t have fucked me up in the same way but knowing that is going to be a lasting flavor in someone’s mouth of what [Daenerys] is. ” The actress didn't see it coming before she got the script of the season? Really? Is she going to end up in Star Wars too?
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Marendil
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Post by Marendil on May 11, 2019 21:30:13 GMT
Well, she has fewer dragons to feed now so it ought to be less of a problem!
Incidentally, rewarding deserving people for their efforts and that causing them to be loyal are not mutually exclusive, they're complimentary actually. Another thing that demonstrated was she doesn't hold Gendry responsible for his father's actions. She was being magnanimous and that having benefits is a positive thing in my view and it's not a bad thing that people recognize it.
I don't think vittles for her pets is her concern right now, I think she's likely to sack King's Landing. In "Behind the Wall" Tyrion warned Daenerys that Cersei might try to provoke her, and I think that's what the death of Missendei was intended to do, lure Dany and Drogon into the range of those scorpions in a rage. It didn't work as designed but my guess is we'll see another 'enough with the clever plans' moment.
i agree with that i do not think for a moment dany will listen to tyrion and she will go ballistic but i think her actions will have severe consequences even emilia has confirmed episode 5 was very hard for her to film from vanity fair Emilia Clarke said Season 8 “fucked me up. I think if I knew there was another season maybe it wouldn’t have fucked me up in the same way but knowing that is going to be a lasting flavor in someone’s mouth of what [Daenerys] is. It just puts more weight on it. It becomes harder to separate you from the role when you’ve been with it for so long.” That doesn't surprise me, I expected it to end badly for Dany since before the season started. One possibility was a horrific death at the Night King's hands, that likelihood diminished to essentially nothingness now, I'm inclined to think they've another wretched fate in store for her now that she was instrumental in saving the world from the Army of the Dead. "If you think this has a happy ending you've not been paying attention."
Remember what her initial inclination was when she came back to a Meereen under assault: "I will crucify the Masters. I will set their fleets afire, kill every last one of their soldiers, and return their cities to the dirt. That is my plan." If she sacks King's Landing with a dragon, remember that as far as we know the city is still wired to blow with wildfire...
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Post by jon snow loves sansa on May 12, 2019 21:01:59 GMT
I think if I knew there was another season maybe it wouldn’t have fucked me up in the same way but knowing that is going to be a lasting flavor in someone’s mouth of what [Daenerys] is. ” The actress didn't see it coming before she got the script of the season? Really? Is she going to end up in Star Wars too? emilia also said daenrys helped her or shaped her be the woman she is today , well i hope shes excluding what shes going to do tonight and yep she is on star wars movies too no wonder the creator or star wars goerge lucas was at GOT set
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Post by jon snow loves sansa on May 12, 2019 21:09:23 GMT
i agree with that i do not think for a moment dany will listen to tyrion and she will go ballistic but i think her actions will have severe consequences even emilia has confirmed episode 5 was very hard for her to film from vanity fair Emilia Clarke said Season 8 “fucked me up. I think if I knew there was another season maybe it wouldn’t have fucked me up in the same way but knowing that is going to be a lasting flavor in someone’s mouth of what [Daenerys] is. It just puts more weight on it. It becomes harder to separate you from the role when you’ve been with it for so long.”That doesn't surprise me, I expected it to end badly for Dany since before the season started. One possibility was a horrific death at the Night King's hands, that likelihood diminished to essentially nothingness now, I'm inclined to think they've another wretched fate in store for her now that she was instrumental in saving the world from the Army of the Dead. "If you think this has a happy ending you've not been paying attention."
Remember what her initial inclination was when she came back to a Meereen under assault: "I will crucify the Masters. I will set their fleets afire, kill every last one of their soldiers, and return their cities to the dirt. That is my plan." If she sacks King's Landing with a dragon, remember that as far as we know the city is still wired to blow with wildfire...
i agree , i always said if she died north of the wall that would have been a better ending to her character especially for her fans who think of her as a hero another part of fandom wanted dany and jon to hook up from since season 1 and have a magical targaryen baby together or for her to be his nissa nissa and be the "fire" bride so jon can kill the NK , the more i watched the show the more it was clear to me even with jon/dany hooking up how different they were and how it would be a disaster and sure enough it played out like i thought it would , dany is a complex figure and on the show they also gave her magical powers ,she cant burn , so i do not think characters like that live for long , only other character who didnt burn was the NK .
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Marendil
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Post by Marendil on May 12, 2019 23:23:34 GMT
That doesn't surprise me, I expected it to end badly for Dany since before the season started. One possibility was a horrific death at the Night King's hands, that likelihood diminished to essentially nothingness now, I'm inclined to think they've another wretched fate in store for her now that she was instrumental in saving the world from the Army of the Dead. "If you think this has a happy ending you've not been paying attention."
Remember what her initial inclination was when she came back to a Meereen under assault: "I will crucify the Masters. I will set their fleets afire, kill every last one of their soldiers, and return their cities to the dirt. That is my plan." If she sacks King's Landing with a dragon, remember that as far as we know the city is still wired to blow with wildfire...
i agree , i always said if she died north of the wall that would have been a better ending to her character especially for her fans who think of her as a hero another part of fandom wanted dany and jon to hook up from since season 1 and have a magical targaryen baby together or for her to be his nissa nissa and be the "fire" bride so jon can kill the NK , the more i watched the show the more it was clear to me even with jon/dany hooking up how different they were and how it would be a disaster and sure enough it played out like i thought it would , dany is a complex figure and on the show they also gave her magical powers ,she cant burn , so i do not think characters like that live for long , only other character who didnt burn was the NK . I am re-reading the first book and noticed something I'd forgotten, in one of Dany's chapters it is said magic pretty much vanished from the world with the Doom of Valyria. Now there's other indications that's not absolutely true, (Varys' experience and Murri Maz Duur etc) but the wizards in Qarth said something to the effect their magic had diminished alarmingly until Dany brought the dragons out of the pyre, which is why they wanted to imprison her as they believed proximity increased their magic also.
I can't help but note how badly it has ended for so many of the characters who relied on magic, it seems to be a theme of sorts...
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give it time