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Post by Cody™ on May 9, 2019 7:04:17 GMT
This is something I’ve suspected for years, but according to scientist John Ioannidis most peer reviewed research findings are false.
Apparently more than 50% of published scientific “facts” cannot be reproduced. Makes you wonder.
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Post by goz on May 9, 2019 7:21:31 GMT
This is something I’ve suspected for years, but according to scientist John Ioannidis most peer reviewed research findings are false. Apparently more than 50% of published scientific “facts” cannot be reproduced. Makes you wonder. No. This is an anti-intellectualism conspiracy theory. Edit: sorry This is a right wing anti-intellectualism conspiracy theory.
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Post by Zos on May 9, 2019 8:31:01 GMT
No.
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Post by phludowin on May 9, 2019 10:11:02 GMT
To answer the question of the OP: No, science is not in a crisis.
The article starts by mentioning statistical fallacies that can be committed. I guess that most of it is true; unfortuately I am unfamiliar with many terms used. I did not learn English in a statistics class, and I did not learn statistics in English. But let's assume that the statistic calculations and statements are correct.
Unfortunately, the author then starts with a conspiracy about organisations deliberately helping manipulating findings. I call it a conspiracy because I fail to see that the author provides evidence for it. This, in my opinion, invalidates most of the corollaries in the middle of the article.
The conclusion at the end of the article however makes sense to me. The more studies are conducted, the better for the scientific validity.
Conclusion: Science is not perfect, but still one of the most useful tools to find out how the world works. Even if it can be misused, like all tools.
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Post by faustus5 on May 9, 2019 10:28:51 GMT
I personally think physics and cosmology are in crisis, but not because of some dumb ass conspiracy. Its because we are reaching the limits of our understanding given the tools we can afford to build. But "science" as a process is unequaled among all human endeavors as a tool for getting an understanding of reality that is as objective as possible given our many flaws as humans.
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Post by Zos on May 9, 2019 13:29:28 GMT
I personally think physics and cosmology are in crisis, but not because of some dumb ass conspiracy. Its because we are reaching the limits of our understanding given the tools we can afford to build. But "science" as a process is unequaled among all human endeavors as a tool for getting an understanding of reality that is as objective as possible given our many flaws as humans. Do you think Science is in a form of Crisis in the US, due to an agenda of anti-intellectualism being fostered in the Government for partisan reasons?
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Post by drystyx on May 9, 2019 14:55:28 GMT
You are correct, but the reality is too scary for the feeble minded sheep to accept.
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Post by faustus5 on May 9, 2019 16:33:17 GMT
I personally think physics and cosmology are in crisis, but not because of some dumb ass conspiracy. Its because we are reaching the limits of our understanding given the tools we can afford to build. But "science" as a process is unequaled among all human endeavors as a tool for getting an understanding of reality that is as objective as possible given our many flaws as humans. Do you think Science is in a form of Crisis in the US, due to an agenda of anti-intellectualism being fostered in the Government for partisan reasons? Only temporarily.
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Post by Deleted on May 9, 2019 16:50:02 GMT
Certainly there is an issue with falsified findings, unrepeatable findings, etc. But crisis? No. Science recognises biases and flaws in data, which is why it has mechanisms in place to correct them.
For example, are your results unrepeatable? This is why scientists do not rely on individual studies or experiments. Scientists know that there are anomalous results, due to bias or accident or flaws in the methodology or just for no apparent reason. Headlines in newspapers may trumpet individual findings, but no finding gains wide acceptance in the scientific community until it has been repeated, and often. Look at the case a while back where somebody reported a signal that had travelled faster than the speed of light. What happened? Other people looked into it, tried to reproduce it, and in time a flaw in the experiment was found. That's no crisis, it's an absolutely routine part of the way science works.
Same with false findings. You can falsify your findings, sure, but pretty much the only way you're going to succeed at that long term is if you're either just saying what everyone else already knows to be true or lying on a finding so obscure that nobody else is bothering with it.
In either case, the idea that some incompetent or malicious scientists come up with a finding and all the other scientists just go along with it as if it was gospel... that's just a nonsense.
Funnily enough, though, that's exactly how religion works. There's no error checking there, for sure - how could there be, when there's absolutely no way to tell if it's true or false? So there's that.
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Post by lowtacks86 on May 9, 2019 16:58:37 GMT
Yes, it's in a crisis in that as technology and information improves, were experiencing diminishing returns in scientific discovery. While I'm sure scientists are doing plenty of extensive research and studies, it's been a while since we've encounted I guess what I would called a true "scientific zenith", something that truly changes the scientific community and perhaps even how we perceive reality (theory of gravity, natural selection, universal expansion, atomic theory, theory of relativity, landing on the Moon, etc). Your post is hardly a "crisis", that's why thinks like repeated experiments, scientific revision, and peer review exist, to weed out faulty information.
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Post by Cody™ on May 9, 2019 17:01:41 GMT
Yes, it's in a crisis in that as technology and information improves, were experiencing diminishing returns in scientific discovery. While I'm sure scientists are doing plenty of extensive research and studies, it's been a while since we've encounted I guess what I would called a true "scientific zenith", something that truly changes the scientific community and perhaps even how we perceive reality (theory of gravity, natural selection, universal expansion, atomic theory, theory of relativity, etc) I like how most of you science worshippers are ignoring the information in the OP LOL.
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Post by lowtacks86 on May 9, 2019 17:05:04 GMT
Yes, it's in a crisis in that as technology and information improves, were experiencing diminishing returns in scientific discovery. While I'm sure scientists are doing plenty of extensive research and studies, it's been a while since we've encounted I guess what I would called a true "scientific zenith", something that truly changes the scientific community and perhaps even how we perceive reality (theory of gravity, natural selection, universal expansion, atomic theory, theory of relativity, etc) I like how most of you science worshippers are ignoring the information in the OP LOL. I edited my post, see the last sentence I wrote. Graham already made the response I was going to do, no point in repeating, but I decided to summarize my thoughts on it as well..
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Post by faustus5 on May 9, 2019 17:06:17 GMT
I like how most of you science worshippers are ignoring the information in the OP LOL. That's because none of it is actually news. Most of us understood all of the stuff in the OP to be the case for a long time. The institutions of science are designed to weed out the garbage from the gold and it takes a long time to do so. It's only novel information to ignoramuses like you.
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Post by Deleted on May 9, 2019 17:21:53 GMT
Yes, it's in a crisis in that as technology and information improves, were experiencing diminishing returns in scientific discovery. While I'm sure scientists are doing plenty of extensive research and studies, it's been a while since we've encounted I guess what I would called a true "scientific zenith", something that truly changes the scientific community and perhaps even how we perceive reality (theory of gravity, natural selection, universal expansion, atomic theory, theory of relativity, etc) I like how most of you science worshippers are ignoring the information in the OP LOL. I guess that's one way to respond to your source being refuted. Maybe try calling somebody a cuck, emotional tantrums seem to be a default for you.
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Post by geode on May 9, 2019 17:24:33 GMT
This is off-topic and does not belong on this board. However, I find the attempt of predicting poor published scientific articles through using statistical formulas to be pointless.
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Post by general313 on May 9, 2019 19:22:27 GMT
This is off-topic and does not belong on this board. However, I find the attempt of predicting poor published scientific articles through using statistical formulas to be pointless. Actually it does since there has been an important relationship between religion and science throughout much of history, including confrontations going on since before Galileo to past Al Gore. Science and rationalism has shaped many Christian apologist arguments for many hundreds of years (at times proactively and others reactively).
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Post by The Herald Erjen on May 9, 2019 19:35:00 GMT
Too bad Cash isn't alive to see this, not that it would have changed his mind on anything.
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Post by lunda2222 on May 9, 2019 19:58:50 GMT
Yes, it's in a crisis in that as technology and information improves, were experiencing diminishing returns in scientific discovery. While I'm sure scientists are doing plenty of extensive research and studies, it's been a while since we've encounted I guess what I would called a true "scientific zenith", something that truly changes the scientific community and perhaps even how we perceive reality (theory of gravity, natural selection, universal expansion, atomic theory, theory of relativity, landing on the Moon, etc). Your post is hardly a "crisis", that's why thinks like repeated experiments, scientific revision, and peer review exist, to weed out faulty information. Diminishing returns?
There has been more inventions made in the past 30 years than the 2000 years before that combined. And all of this is due to science.
As for groundbreaking scientific discoveries? I'll the discovery of stem cells as well as mapping of the human genome exactly that, not to mention what you are writing this on (and by that I mean both modern computers and high speed internet). The difference is that live in a society that can take this in stride rather than take this as big revelations that people needs time to wrap their heads around.
Kinda.... you can make a good argument that this religious board proves me wrong by the denial of discoveries made 100 years ago are still controversial.
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Post by geode on May 9, 2019 20:18:33 GMT
This is off-topic and does not belong on this board. However, I find the attempt of predicting poor published scientific articles through using statistical formulas to be pointless. Actually it does since there has been an important relationship between religion and science throughout much of history, including confrontations going on since before Galileo to past Al Gore. Science and rationalism has shaped many Christian apologist arguments for many hundreds of years (at times proactively and others reactively). I disagree because no attempt has been made to maker a case to tie this article to religion. It is about the quality of published scientific studies. It is not about the history of science, which is what your argument is about. Therefore I stand on my statement. Unless an attempt is made to tie this in with religion in some way. it is off-topic and should not have been posted here.
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Post by lunda2222 on May 9, 2019 20:36:23 GMT
I disagree because no attempt has been made to maker a case to tie this article to religion. It is about the quality of published scientific studies. It is not about the history of science, which is what your argument is about. Therefore I stand on my statement. Unless an attempt is made to tie this in with religion in some way. it is off-topic and should not have been posted here. I understand your argument, but in the eyes of the more fundamentalists, any criticisms against science is somehow a win for their "side" (which pretty much shows that they do not understand how science works).
Which is why in their eyes any such topics are very relevant to this board.
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