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Post by ShrunkenHeadonKnightBus on Jun 12, 2019 23:12:25 GMT
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Post by ThatGuy on Jun 13, 2019 0:04:57 GMT
He never said that was the only way they could win. He said that was the only time they won of all the futures he saw. This could have been the only time Thor threw his axe. Thor could have died making the axe. Thanos could have warped right next to Thor and killed him. He could have gone to Wakanda first, then Titan.
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Post by ThatGuy on Jun 13, 2019 0:14:05 GMT
If Thanos was a small guy, then I can see Thor missing his head. But Thanos is a pretty big guy, with a pretty big neck. How does someone who's often been called a God miss a target that big 14 million times? So basically Thor has such bad aim that he missed chopping off Thanos' head 14 million times? So you're just going to completely ignore the distance that axe was thrown which seemed in excess of 100 meters, the fact that even big objects will appear smaller with distance, that a battleaxe is a very difficult weapon to be accurate with, the angle with which Thor was trying to hit Thanos, or the fact that Thanos had just blasted Stormbreaker with the complete IG and then simply blame everything on Thor having bad aim? Well, thanks for proving you're a troll. LOL Your post reminded of this.
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Post by DC-Fan on Jun 13, 2019 0:43:05 GMT
Wait, are you saying the fourteen million possible futures that Doctor Strange saw were hypothetical and not actual? Then my new question is: Were the 14 million future scenarios that Doctor Strange saw actual future scenarios that actually occurred in an alternate timeline/reality? Or were the 14 million future scenarios that Doctor Strange saw hypothetical future scenarios that didn't actually occur in an alternate timeline/reality? They're hypothetical. Well then, in that case, the writing is even worse than I thought. If the 14 million future scenarios were just hypothetical future scenarios, then how is it that Doctor Strange didn't think of even 1 hypothetical future scenario in which Thor simply chops off Thanos' head with the axe, instead of thinking up a convoluted scenario in which (1) a random mouse steps on just the right buttons on a machine 5 years in the future AND (2) past Thanos figures out the Avengers' plan to retrieve the stones AND (3) past Thanos travels to the future AND (4) Thanos takes possession of the stones again AND (5) Iron Man is quick enough to take the gauntlet off Thanos' hand. The odds of ALL 5 of those things (in addition to all of the other things that happened in Endgame) happening is astronomical compared to the odds of Thor simply chopping off Thanos' head with the axe. So why didn't Doctor Strange think of the simple scenario of Thor simply chopping off Thanos' head with the axe? Why did Doctor Strange risk the fate of half the universe of such a convoluted and astronomical scenario rather than the simple scenario of Thor simply chopping off Thanos' head with the axe? It's just really contrived and awful writing in Infinity War and Endgame. That's why I gave a low rating to Infinity War and Endgame.
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Post by DC-Fan on Jun 13, 2019 0:44:11 GMT
Wait, are you saying the fourteen million possible futures that Doctor Strange saw were hypothetical and not actual? Then my new question is: Were the 14 million future scenarios that Doctor Strange saw actual future scenarios that actually occurred in an alternate timeline/reality? Or were the 14 million future scenarios that Doctor Strange saw hypothetical future scenarios that didn't actually occur in an alternate timeline/reality? The other 14 million scenarios are futures where the Avengers lose. It's not hard man. So you're saying those 14 million future scenarios are hypothetical future scenarios rather than actual future scenarios?
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Post by DC-Fan on Jun 13, 2019 0:50:19 GMT
If Thanos was a small guy, then I can see Thor missing his head. But Thanos is a pretty big guy, with a pretty big neck. How does someone who's often been called a God miss a target that big 14 million times? So basically Thor has such bad aim that he missed chopping off Thanos' head 14 million times? So you're just going to completely ignore the distance that axe was thrown which seemed in excess of 100 meters, the fact that even big objects will appear smaller with distance, that a battleaxe is a very difficult weapon to be accurate with, the angle with which Thor was trying to hit Thanos, or the fact that Thanos had just blasted Stormbreaker with the complete IG and then simply blame everything on Thor having bad aim? Well, thanks for proving you're a troll. 1st, I'm not a troll. I'm asking a legitimate and valid question. 2nd, I didn't say Thor should be accurate on every throw. But 0-for-14 million for a guy who's often been called a God? C'mon! I mean, pitchers in baseball are awful hitters, but even some pitchers in baseball can get a hit and sometimes even a home run now and then. How the hell does a guy who's often been called a God go 0-for-14 million?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 13, 2019 1:00:39 GMT
The odds of ALL 5 of those things (in addition to all of the other things that happened in Endgame) happening is astronomical compared to the odds of Thor simply chopping off Thanos' head with the axe. 14,000,605 to 1. Or "astronomical" as you call it. You keep asking what are the odds, what are the odds, but they're right there.
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Post by DC-Fan on Jun 13, 2019 1:00:49 GMT
He never said that was the only way they could win. He said that was the only time they won of all the futures he saw. This could have been the only time Thor threw his axe. That's still pretty contrived and awful writing. So basically, we're supposed to believe that Doctor Strange saw 14 million possible future scenarios, but NONE of those 14 million possible future scenarios involved Thor simply chopping off Thanos' head with the axe? 14 million possible scenarios and not one did Thor ever think of simply chopping off Thanos' head with the axe?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 13, 2019 1:02:38 GMT
So you're just going to completely ignore the distance that axe was thrown which seemed in excess of 100 meters, the fact that even big objects will appear smaller with distance, that a battleaxe is a very difficult weapon to be accurate with, the angle with which Thor was trying to hit Thanos, or the fact that Thanos had just blasted Stormbreaker with the complete IG and then simply blame everything on Thor having bad aim? Well, thanks for proving you're a troll. LOL Your post reminded of this.
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Post by DC-Fan on Jun 13, 2019 1:03:46 GMT
The odds of ALL 5 of those things (in addition to all of the other things that happened in Endgame) happening is astronomical compared to the odds of Thor simply chopping off Thanos' head with the axe. 14,000,605 to 1. Or "astronomical" as you call it. You keep asking what are the odds, what are the odds, but they're right there.
14,000,605 is the number of different scenarios, but NOT the odds of any 1 scenario happening. Each scenario has different odds of happening. Some are more likely to happen and some are less likely to happen. It's similar to if you're playing Poker and your opponent has a Flush, how many ways can you get a better hand? Well, assuming there are no wild cards, you can get: 1. a higher Flush 2. a Full House 3. 4 of a Kind 4. a Straight Flush 5. a Royal Flush So there are 5 ways you can get a better hand. But not all 5 ways have the same 1 in 5 odds of happening. Obviously a higher Flush is more likely to happen than the other hands and a Royal Flush is less likely to happen than the other hands. A random mouse stepping on just the right buttons on the machine 5 years in the future is a random event with astronomical (much higher than 14,000,605 to 1) odds of happening. That's just really lazy and contrived and stupid writing to risk half the universe on a random event with astronomical odds of happening.
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Post by Nicko's Nose on Jun 13, 2019 1:07:51 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jun 13, 2019 1:36:03 GMT
14,000,605 to 1. Or "astronomical" as you call it. You keep asking what are the odds, what are the odds, but they're right there.
14,000,605 is the number of different scenarios, but NOT the odds of any 1 scenario happening. Each scenario has different odds of happening. Some are more likely to happen and some are less likely to happen. It's similar to if you're playing Poker and your opponent has a Flush, how many ways can you get a better hand? Well, assuming there are no wild cards, you can get: 1. a higher Flush 2. a Full House 3. 4 of a Kind 4. a Straight Flush 5. a Royal Flush So there are 5 ways you can get a better hand. But not all 5 ways have the same 1 in 5 odds of happening. Obviously a higher Flush is more likely to happen than the other hands and a Royal Flush is less likely to happen than the other hands. A random mouse stepping on just the right buttons on the machine 5 years in the future is a random event with astronomical (much higher than 14,000,605 to 1) odds of happening. That's just really lazy and contrived and stupid writing to risk half the universe on a random event with astronomical odds of happening. "14,000,605 is the number of different scenarios, but NOT the odds of any 1 scenario happening."
Let me stop you right there. 14,000,605 is the number of scenarios Doctor Strange saw. Of those 14,000,605 scenarios, only one showed the Avengers victorious. That means the odds of the one scenario beating out the others is 14,000,605 to 1, including the mouse.
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Post by DC-Fan on Jun 13, 2019 1:50:31 GMT
14,000,605 is the number of different scenarios, but NOT the odds of any 1 scenario happening. Each scenario has different odds of happening. Some are more likely to happen and some are less likely to happen. It's similar to if you're playing Poker and your opponent has a Flush, how many ways can you get a better hand? Well, assuming there are no wild cards, you can get: 1. a higher Flush 2. a Full House 3. 4 of a Kind 4. a Straight Flush 5. a Royal Flush So there are 5 ways you can get a better hand. But not all 5 ways have the same 1 in 5 odds of happening. Obviously a higher Flush is more likely to happen than the other hands and a Royal Flush is less likely to happen than the other hands. A random mouse stepping on just the right buttons on the machine 5 years in the future is a random event with astronomical (much higher than 14,000,605 to 1) odds of happening. That's just really lazy and contrived and stupid writing to risk half the universe on a random event with astronomical odds of happening. "14,000,605 is the number of different scenarios, but NOT the odds of any 1 scenario happening." Let me stop you right there. 14,000,605 is the number of scenarios Doctor Strange saw. Of those 14,000,605 scenarios, only one showed the Avengers victorious. That means the odds of the one scenario beating out the others is 14,000,605 to 1, including the mouse.
You still don't seem to get it. It was 1 scenario out of 14,000,605 that MUST happen for the Avengers to win. That's why Doctor Strange chose that 1 scenario. But just because Doctor Strange chose that 1 scenario doesn't mean that scenario WILL happen or that the odds of that 1 scenario happening is 14,000,605 to 1. Because for that 1 scenario to happen: 1. A random mouse has to step on just the right buttons on a machine 5 years in the future. Doctor Strange doesn't know when he chooses that scenario if the mouse would do that 5 years in the future. 2. Past Thanos has to figure out that the Avengers are planning to travel back in time to retrieve the stones. Doctor Strange doesn't know when he chooses that scenario if past Thanos would figure it out. 3. Past Thanos has to travel to the future. Doctor Strange doesn't know when he chooses that scenario if past Thanos would do that. 4. Past Thanos has to gain possession of all the stones again in the future. Doctor Strange doesn't know when he chooses that scenario if past Thanos would be able to do that. 5. Iron Man has to be quick enough to get the gauntlet off Thanos' hand before the 2nd snap. Doctor Strange doesn't know when he chooses that scenario if that would happen. And many other things that had to happen, which Doctor Strange doesn't know when he chooses that scenario if those things will happen. Basically, you're assuming that just because Doctor Strange wants that scenario to happen and chooses to go with that scenario, that everything would happen exactly that way because Doctor Strange chose that scenario. But Doctor Strange can't choose what a random mouse does 5 years in the future and Doctor Strange can't choose what past Thanos is going to do. Those are random and independent variables that Doctor Strange can't choose, and those random and independent variables make that 1 scenario that Doctor Strange wants to happen and chooses to go with have astronomical odds.
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Post by Skaathar on Jun 13, 2019 2:00:43 GMT
See how DC-Fan is avoiding answering my post.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 13, 2019 2:02:01 GMT
"14,000,605 is the number of different scenarios, but NOT the odds of any 1 scenario happening." Let me stop you right there. 14,000,605 is the number of scenarios Doctor Strange saw. Of those 14,000,605 scenarios, only one showed the Avengers victorious. That means the odds of the one scenario beating out the others is 14,000,605 to 1, including the mouse.
You still don't seem to get it. It was 1 scenario out of 14,000,605 that MUST happen for the Avengers to win. That's why Doctor Strange chose that 1 scenario. But just because Doctor Strange chose that 1 scenario doesn't mean that scenario WILL happen or that the odds of that 1 scenario happening is 14,000,605 to 1. Because for that 1 scenario to happen: 1. A random mouse has to step on just the right buttons on a machine 5 years in the future. Doctor Strange doesn't know when he chooses that scenario if the mouse would do that 5 years in the future. 2. Past Thanos has to figure out that the Avengers are planning to travel back in time to retrieve the stones. Doctor Strange doesn't know when he chooses that scenario if past Thanos would figure it out. 3. Past Thanos has to travel to the future. Doctor Strange doesn't know when he chooses that scenario if past Thanos would do that. 4. Past Thanos has to gain possession of all the stones again in the future. Doctor Strange doesn't know when he chooses that scenario if past Thanos would be able to do that. 5. Iron Man has to be quick enough to get the gauntlet off Thanos' hand before the 2nd snap. Doctor Strange doesn't know when he chooses that scenario if that would happen. And many other things that had to happen, which Doctor Strange doesn't know when he chooses that scenario if those things will happen. Basically, you're assuming that just because Doctor Strange wants that scenario to happen and chooses to go with that scenario, that everything would happen exactly that way because Doctor Strange chose that scenario. But Doctor Strange can't choose what a random mouse does 5 years in the future and Doctor Strange can't choose what past Thanos is going to do. Those are random and independent variables that Doctor Strange can't choose, and those random and independent variables make that 1 scenario that Doctor Strange wants to happen and chooses to go with have astronomical odds. You're right about one thing: Doctor Strange didn't choose what the mouse did 5 years later. He only saw it in one of many possible futures.
"And many other things that had to happen, which Doctor Strange doesn't know when he chooses that scenario if those things will happen."
That's right. Odds are 14,000,605 that those very unlikely things would happen precisely in the order they did, but that's what happened. You saw it with your own eyes.
I think you've had enough for today.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 13, 2019 2:03:00 GMT
See how DC-Fan is avoiding answering my post. The horror.
I'm teasing but if you want to take over, be my guest.
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Post by DC-Fan on Jun 13, 2019 2:14:21 GMT
You still don't seem to get it. It was 1 scenario out of 14,000,605 that MUST happen for the Avengers to win. That's why Doctor Strange chose that 1 scenario. But just because Doctor Strange chose that 1 scenario doesn't mean that scenario WILL happen or that the odds of that 1 scenario happening is 14,000,605 to 1. Because for that 1 scenario to happen: 1. A random mouse has to step on just the right buttons on a machine 5 years in the future. Doctor Strange doesn't know when he chooses that scenario if the mouse would do that 5 years in the future. 2. Past Thanos has to figure out that the Avengers are planning to travel back in time to retrieve the stones. Doctor Strange doesn't know when he chooses that scenario if past Thanos would figure it out. 3. Past Thanos has to travel to the future. Doctor Strange doesn't know when he chooses that scenario if past Thanos would do that. 4. Past Thanos has to gain possession of all the stones again in the future. Doctor Strange doesn't know when he chooses that scenario if past Thanos would be able to do that. 5. Iron Man has to be quick enough to get the gauntlet off Thanos' hand before the 2nd snap. Doctor Strange doesn't know when he chooses that scenario if that would happen. And many other things that had to happen, which Doctor Strange doesn't know when he chooses that scenario if those things will happen. Basically, you're assuming that just because Doctor Strange wants that scenario to happen and chooses to go with that scenario, that everything would happen exactly that way because Doctor Strange chose that scenario. But Doctor Strange can't choose what a random mouse does 5 years in the future and Doctor Strange can't choose what past Thanos is going to do. Those are random and independent variables that Doctor Strange can't choose, and those random and independent variables make that 1 scenario that Doctor Strange wants to happen and chooses to go with have astronomical odds. You're right about one thing: Doctor Strange didn't choose what the mouse did 5 years later. He only saw it in one of many possible futures.
"And many other things that had to happen, which Doctor Strange doesn't know when he chooses that scenario if those things will happen."
That's right. Odds are 14,000,605 that those very unlikely things would happen precisely in the order they did, but that's what happened. You saw it with your own eyes.
No, the odds are much higher than 14,000,605 that those unlikely things all happen. It would be like saying "there are 5 Poker hands that are better than a Flush (a higher Flush, Full House, 4-of-a-Kind, Straight Flush, and Royal Flush) so my odds of getting a Royal Flush are 1 out of 5". The odds of getting a Royal Flush are much higher than getting a Full House or 4-of-Kind. Similarly, the odds of Doctor Strange's chosen scenario of random and independent events all occurring are astronomical compared to the simple scenario of Thor simply chopping off Thanos' head with the axe. So why did Doctor Strange risk half the universe on such an astronomical scenario instead of the much simpler scenario of Thor simply chopping off Thanos' head with the axe? Like I said, it's just really contrived and awful writing in Infinity War and Endgame.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 13, 2019 2:18:05 GMT
You're right about one thing: Doctor Strange didn't choose what the mouse did 5 years later. He only saw it in one of many possible futures.
"And many other things that had to happen, which Doctor Strange doesn't know when he chooses that scenario if those things will happen."
That's right. Odds are 14,000,605 that those very unlikely things would happen precisely in the order they did, but that's what happened. You saw it with your own eyes.
No, the odds are much higher than 14,000,605 that those unlikely things all happen. It would be like saying "there are 5 Poker hands that are better than a Flush (a higher Flush, Full House, 4-of-a-Kind, Straight Flush, and Royal Flush) so my odds of getting a Royal Flush are 1 out of 5". The odds of getting a Royal Flush are much higher than getting a Full House or 4-of-Kind. Similarly, the odds of Doctor Strange's chosen scenario of random and independent events all occurring are astronomical compared to the simple scenario of Thor simply chopping off Thanos' head with the axe. I think you mean the odds are much lower. The bigger the number, the lower the odds. 1 in 2 are very high odds, 1 in 10 are lower odds. And I know more about quantum physics than I do about poker.
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Post by Skaathar on Jun 13, 2019 4:07:44 GMT
So you're just going to completely ignore the distance that axe was thrown which seemed in excess of 100 meters, the fact that even big objects will appear smaller with distance, that a battleaxe is a very difficult weapon to be accurate with, the angle with which Thor was trying to hit Thanos, or the fact that Thanos had just blasted Stormbreaker with the complete IG and then simply blame everything on Thor having bad aim? Well, thanks for proving you're a troll. 1st, I'm not a troll. I'm asking a legitimate and valid question. 2nd, I didn't say Thor should be accurate on every throw. But 0-for-14 million for a guy who's often been called a God? C'mon! I mean, pitchers in baseball are awful hitters, but even some pitchers in baseball can get a hit and sometimes even a home run now and then. How the hell does a guy who's often been called a God go 0-for-14 million? Because it's not like Thanos is just standing there allowing Thor to take shot after shot. You're a troll because there's no proof that there was any scenario where Thor could have cut off Thanos's head. Heck, how do you even cut off someone's head from that angle and distance? Of the 14 million possibilities, majority of those probably have Thor dying or missing altogether. The fact that Strange already confirmed that there was no other way proves that Thor was not able to cut off Thanos head in the other scenarios. Period. To keep insisting otherwise without proof is proof of trolling.
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Post by dazz on Jun 13, 2019 8:26:34 GMT
Doctor Strange claimed that there was only 1 possible way to defeat Thanos and that was to let Thanos snap half the universe out of existence and then have a random mouse step on just the right buttons on a machine 5 years in the future to free Ant-Man from the Quantum Realm and then have the Avengers travel back in time to retrieve the stones and then let past Thanos who traveled to the future take the stones again and finally have Iron Man take the glove off Thanos' hand. Aside from the fact that scenario is just convoluted and really contrived and stupid, Endgame showed that Thanos could be killed simply by Thor chopping off Thanos' head. So in Infinity War, if Thor had chopped off Thanos' head with the axe, then that would've also been a winning scenario and none of the random mouse or time travel or other shit in Endgame would've been needed. So my question is : Is Doctor Strange claiming that in EVERY one of those 14 million possible scenarios, Thor never thought of aiming for Thanos' head and never chopped off Thanos' head?Seems like Doctor Strange was lying about there being only 1 possible winning scenario out of 14 million scenarios. Just another example of really contrived and awful writing in MCU movies. Most likely thing in my mind is that Thanos of 2018 couldn't be stopped, he was too powerful, focused and in control, this Thanos is a vastly different one from the 2014 Thanos, much calmer and reserved, he doesn't underestimate his opponents, so likely Thor wouldn't have been able to lop his head off most likely because Thor at that point is fuelled by an unstable mix of grief and bravado now he has an even more powerful weapon on hand, he wouldn't think to just cut his head off.
Keep in mind the Avengers only take down Thanos of 2018 after he's endured 2 snaps from the Infinity Stone, the 2nd of which just happened 2 days ago and almost killed him itself, so there is no promise that Thor could defeat Thanos in combat and cut his head off, given Thanos without the stones alone is strong enough to kick the shit out of Hulk, and also take on the trifecta of Thor, Cap & Tony with both Cap & Thor wielding lightning and telepathically control weapons.
2014 Thanos however is much more aggressive and less a thinker, he's crueller, more a bully, taunting and goading his opponents, he shows no respect towards his foes unlike his older self, this Thanos is cock sure of himself, meaning he's leaving himself open without thinking about things.
Could also be Strange knows the only way to truly win is to destroy Thanos with the stones from the past in a universe where the stones are destroyed, that way no one can try and revert that action, like Thanos thought as otherwise the stones are too much a temptation for someone not to use them somehow.
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