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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2017 23:57:00 GMT
Really I am on the side of free speech. If someone started saying you couldnt give an opposing point of view I would be the 1st person defending you, no matter my feelings on what you were saying. You seem to be upset about the reactions you getting from others, I get that. That is the price we all pay for the freedom to express ourselves. Feelings get hurt on both sides and that is sad but there is no way to prevent it. Your feelings hurt others they way theirs hurt you. If every thing someone says that hurt you wasnt allowed you would have to not be allowed to express any feeling that might upset someone else. The world would be silent. Being heard is more important than feelings, on both sides. It isnt about being right or wrong, that is subjective. If you take part in discussion, especially controversial ones where your opinion is in the minority, you are probably going to get a lot of 'hate'. You have to learn to brush it off or give as good as you get. If the reactions you get are too much for you then maybe the cost is too high for you. After all it is just the internet and if you find you are getting more frustration than enjoyment out of something you have to wonder why you are doing it. Really it comes down to just needing a thicker skin. It is hard to have opposing points of view, I do when it comes to many issues so I can sympathize with you there. In the end I have decided being heard is more important to me than my feelings. You might decide differently. You're trying to place a lot of things on me. You speak of "hurt", "feelings" and such things, things which I haven't said nor felt. If you were truly for free speech you would be addressing "equally" the homosexuals here who have already tried to stack up. 'Nuff said. If they every try and say you cant speak be sure I will. I dont want anyone to leave, comments deleted, people banned. I dont mind having my views challenged, I dont need to hear/read a watered down version either. As I see it now, people are having a discussion. More are on one side than the other, some argue their points in a more constructive way, some make their arguments more personal and some take it all more personally. Everyone though has the same right to argue their points, respond to any remark made.
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Post by awhina on Feb 22, 2017 0:06:44 GMT
I don't care as I have saif around 6 or 7 times now. But that hasn't saved me from vicious attack. Having come here after a night of sleep I see that the moderators have already deleted two "homophobes" so I hsd better be quick to say that it is sadly predictable. Free speech? Only for some it seems. Clearly you choose to ignore facts right in front of you. Those two users left by their own choice as I've explained. They were not banned. And the reports in question actually had nothing to do with this specific thread at all. If you don't believe me, ask any of the other moderators or the admin himself. But you won't. Because you don't care to see reason and logic. I hadn't seen your explanation when I wrote that. This board has got very "buggy" with advertising all over the place meaning it's difficult to read and write.
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Post by MightyMikey on Feb 22, 2017 0:16:52 GMT
awhina has a point. A forum is a place where people come to debate. A moderator in a debate doesn't interject an opinion. The same can be said for a referee who chooses a favorite team. You can't expect some one to fairly enforce the rules if you know they are adamantly against your viewpoint. If the admin are also to the extreme left, then I can only estimate that there will be a mass exodus of conservatives, and you can have a Huffpo circle jerk where you all agree with yourselves. I can only imagine that those people left because they were unfairly called out as trolls because they disagreed with a short sighted moderator. If that were the case, would this thread or any similar threads still be around? I personally did not want one of the users to leave. The admin actually tried to have her stay. She left because she didn't like that users were reporting her for racist posts and the admin asked her to tone it down. She didn't even get a formal warning. She requested to have her posts deleted and she left. If you read other threads, especially the one regarding our ToS, our stance as moderators is clear. We just want to remove unwanted pornographic spam as quickly as possible and we need active mods to do that. We also advocate for free speech. However due to ProBoard's separate ToS that supersedes ours, some user activity simply isn't tolerated and we have to remove it or else we risk losing this board. We take all reports on a case by case basis and we only intervene if it's a threat to the site. I don't think anyone has a problem with the terms of service. My intent was was about feeling comfortable at a forum where moderators are hostile to your opinion and not moderate. I read your exchange with her and it had the feeling of a reprimand, not a debate, regardless of what you call it. I won't stay at a forum where I have to be a yes man to the king.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2017 0:22:30 GMT
All of that is true from a Christian perspective though.
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Post by yezziqa on Feb 22, 2017 0:26:58 GMT
All of that is true from some Christians perspective though. Fixed it for you.
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j2
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Post by j2 on Feb 22, 2017 0:27:35 GMT
Don't get too emotional. Where have I spoken about marriage here? And of course I'm in the debate, or what is this here? Since homosexuals haven't been happy to live their lives as they want to and since instead they (you) have tried to force ALL of us to see your practices as normal (by laws, by indoctrination, politics), then I HAVE to care, or isn't that obvious? I am against the homosexual agenda. I must oppose it; that's just how it is. That doesn't mean I can't have a conversation with homosexuals or with anybody else. I'm talking to you now. But don't think for a second I'll be a hypocrite and say things to you or to others just to be "nice" like snakes. Not gonna happen. Now point to me what I have said that is false here. No one is forcing you to care. Once again, I care about the agenda, not about you homosexuals in your activity. Here we go again. Are you even reading? Where have I spoken about marriage here? You have no way to know what bothers me or what doesn't. You speak falseness. I see homosexuals as people who do an activity I reject, and as very sad people who can't stand to hear what they don't want to hear, and this thread is more proof of it. You're speaking falseness here. When have I (for example) treated you here with contempt before? Just name one time. Enemy is by definition anyone or anything who stands against me. You are the one who speaks of enemies, hate and contempt, not I. You're speaking nonsense again. How do you know what I think? Where did I say any of this? Are you guys for real? Or maybe bots or something? Where have I said this? Are you okay? Well you know what? What you do is your cursed business (like I've said it before already), but the act defined as 'homosexuality' is a perversion in the eyes of many people. I see it that way too and I stand firm by it. If you get emotional about it that's your problem. If you can't handle it you can leave the thread once again as you said you would do it before. Otherwise you can be an adult and control your position. Just like I said before, there is NO WAY in existence everyone will accept what you and those like you do regarding the homosexual activity.
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Post by j2 on Feb 22, 2017 0:29:48 GMT
You're trying to place a lot of things on me. You speak of "hurt", "feelings" and such things, things which I haven't said nor felt. If you were truly for free speech you would be addressing "equally" the homosexuals here who have already tried to stack up. 'Nuff said. You just don't like what you are hearing, that is why you feel you are being burdened. Good! As for the bigoted heterosexuals like yourself that have already tried to stack up. 'Nuff said. Oh look, he called me a 'heterosexual', I'm hurt! lol Give me a f-in break.
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Post by awhina on Feb 22, 2017 0:30:59 GMT
All of that is true from a Christian perspective though. He knows that as he has attended q Christian church but he doesn't want to accept it.
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Blue
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Post by Blue on Feb 22, 2017 0:43:00 GMT
j2 I find the double standards in your posts extremely sad. My emotions doesn't take away the validity of my position. Just a few posts ago you were getting all bothered with another user and no one used that against you. You want to sit there and generalize an entire group of people and look down on them? Fine. But I'm glad that people like you are now a minority and your hatred and bigotry is dying out. People like you are the reason people like me get still get killed today in countries in the Middle East and Africa. You simply don't see that your views and opinions of gay people and their personal lives are actually more damaging to the world than gay people themselves. awhina We're not bringing religion into this. There's already an entire thread devoted to that specific topic.
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j2
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Post by j2 on Feb 22, 2017 0:51:55 GMT
If that were the case, would this thread or any similar threads still be around? I personally did not want one of the users to leave. The admin actually tried to have her stay. She left because she didn't like that users were reporting her for racist posts and the admin asked her to tone it down. She didn't even get a formal warning. She requested to have her posts deleted and she left. If you read other threads, especially the one regarding our ToS, our stance as moderators is clear. We just want to remove unwanted pornographic spam as quickly as possible and we need active mods to do that. We also advocate for free speech. However due to ProBoard's separate ToS that supersedes ours, some user activity simply isn't tolerated and we have to remove it or else we risk losing this board. We take all reports on a case by case basis and we only intervene if it's a threat to the site. I don't think anyone has a problem with the terms of service. My intent was was about feeling comfortable at a forum where moderators are hostile to your opinion and not moderate. I read your exchange with her and it had the feeling of a reprimand, not a debate, regardless of what you call it. I won't stay at a forum where I have to be a yes man to the king. This is exactly why I spoke against 'moderators' in the first place (false 'moderation') and against this crap that's already happening here. I made a post about it some time back, and some users back then immediately started to suggest I was a "troll", whatever the hell it means, because I don't take garbage from anybody. Now I post on this thread here and all of a sudden I'm labeled a bunch of things in a violent way. The same has happened to others. These 'moderators' saw the verbal violence taking place and what did they do about it in their role of 'moderators'? Push against me as well, of course. How the hell is this even as a conversation? Maybe those users weren't banned, but they did see the door out, that's for sure, and it happened for a reason. I suggest you read my post about a way to keep our data safe. It also provides for a true moderator-LESS environment where each user can control what he sees. Cheers.
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Post by awhina on Feb 22, 2017 1:06:38 GMT
j2 I find the double standards in your posts extremely sad. My emotions doesn't take away the validity of my position. Just a few posts ago you were getting all bothered with another user and no one used that against you. You want to sit there and generalize an entire group of people and look down on them? Fine. But I'm glad that people like you are now a minority and your hatred and bigotry is dying out. People like you are the reason people like me get still get killed today in countries in the Middle East and Africa. You simply don't see that your views and opinions of gay people and their personal lives are actually more damaging to the world than gay people themselves. awhina We're not bringing religion into this. There's already an entire thread devoted to that specific topic. Religion is part of it like it or not. Or is suddenly the LGBTQ RSTUVWYYZ board?
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j2
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Post by j2 on Feb 22, 2017 1:06:51 GMT
All of that is true from a Christian perspective, though. Fixed it for you. Fixed it for him, and I'll add: "However, many so-called 'christians' (which in fact are the false kind) don't see it as true."
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j2
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Post by j2 on Feb 22, 2017 1:17:36 GMT
j2 I find the double standards in your posts extremely sad. My emotions doesn't take away the validity of my position. Just a few posts ago you were getting all bothered with another user and no one used that against you. You want to sit there and generalize an entire group of people and look down on them? Fine. But I'm glad that people like you are now a minority and your hatred and bigotry is dying out. People like you are the reason people like me get still get killed today in countries in the Middle East and Africa. You simply don't see that your views and opinions of gay people and their personal lives are actually more damaging to the world than gay people themselves. awhina We're not bringing religion into this. There's already an entire thread devoted to that specific topic. I'd like you to please point out those 'double standards' you say I hold. And please, don't try to imply I'm responsible for the actions of others in the Middle East or elsewhere; that is not true. So in your eyes I hold "hatred" and "bigotry", but is that true? Couldn't someone say the same thing about homosexuals when they are against those who oppose them? Why not hold a conversation without labels which may or may not be true? And by the way, make no mistake, we are not a minority. You are.
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Post by awhina on Feb 22, 2017 1:18:43 GMT
Fixed it for him, and I'll add: "However, many so-called 'christians' (which in fact are the false kind) don't see it as true." Exactly true! With any luck the fakes will find another hobby as some of them from IMDB v 1.0 seem to have done.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2017 1:23:54 GMT
Sometimes I think I have trouble understanding where others are coming from because I am too self centered. I cant see caring so much what other people do. I love gay people but even if I didnt I would think 'how does them getting married impact me' and would realize it doesnt and therefor wouldnt think about it much. I have too many personal problems to worry about to worry about things that have no impact on me. Though gay people not being able to marry could have an impact on me even though I am not gay and never plan to marry. I have been in situations where double standards have had a life changing impact on me. For me I would be fine with no one being allowed to marry but since some are then all have to be. No one should be ok with any group having less rights because it opens the door for the next group that has less rights to be one you are part of.
I was living less than 5 miles from Pulse when the Pulse shooting happened and so it probably has made me care more about something that isnt a issue for me. I have always been for all equal rights but seeing how there are still so many people today with this fear and hatred toward something that has no impact on their daily lives is sad to me.
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j2
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Post by j2 on Feb 22, 2017 1:27:02 GMT
Sometimes I think I have trouble understanding where others are coming from because I am too self centered. I cant see caring so much what other people do. I love gay people but even if I didnt I would think 'how does them getting married impact me' and would realize it doesnt and therefor wouldnt think about it much. I have too many personal problems to worry about to worry about things that have no impact on me. Though gay people not being able to marry could have an impact on me even though I am not gay and never plan to marry. I have been in situations where double standards have had a life changing impact on me. For me I would be fine with no one being allowed to marry but since some are then all have to be. No one should be ok with any group having less rights because it opens the door for the next group that has less rights to be one you are part of. I was living less than 5 miles from Pulse when the Pulse shooting happened and so it probably has made me care more about something that isnt a issue for me. I have always been for all equal rights but seeing how there are still so many people today with this fear and hatred toward something that has no impact on their daily lives is sad to me. I suggest you consider carefully the definition of the words 'fear' and 'hatred' regarding the context of what you just said.
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Post by yezziqa on Feb 22, 2017 1:32:45 GMT
Fixed it for him, and I'll add: "However, many of us so-called 'christians' (we who don't live after Jesus words and actions towards other people) don't see it as true." Fixed it for you.
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j2
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Post by j2 on Feb 22, 2017 1:46:52 GMT
Fixed it for him, and I'll add: "However, many of us so-called 'christians' (we who don't live after Jesus words and actions towards other people) don't see it as true." Fixed it for you. What you wrote doesn't even make sense (to favor you). Try again.
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Blue
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Post by Blue on Feb 22, 2017 1:48:41 GMT
I don't think anyone has a problem with the terms of service. My intent was was about feeling comfortable at a forum where moderators are hostile to your opinion and not moderate. I read your exchange with her and it had the feeling of a reprimand, not a debate, regardless of what you call it. I won't stay at a forum where I have to be a yes man to the king. This is exactly why I spoke against 'moderators' in the first place (false 'moderation') and against this crap that's already happening here. I made a post about it some time back, and some users back then immediately started to suggest I was a "troll", whatever the hell it means, because I don't take garbage from anybody. Now I post on this thread here and all of a sudden I'm labeled a bunch of things in a violent way. The same has happened to others. These 'moderators' saw the verbal violence taking place and what did they do about it in their role of 'moderators'? Push against me as well, of course. How the hell is this even as a conversation? Maybe those users weren't banned, but they did see the door out, that's for sure, and it happened for a reason. I suggest you read my post about a way to keep our data safe. It also provides for a true moderator-LESS environment where each user can control what he sees. Cheers. Again, the mods are not here to police political debates. As far as I know, you and other like-minded users have not been censored or banned in any way. The fact that I'm a mod and have opinions different from yours doesn't warrant an excuse to claim unfairness. In terms of removal, the main thing that the mods and admin has done is remove posts that directly violate Proboard's Terms of Service, which were those pornographic spam posts. And if several users report the same person for their posts that actually do violate our ToS, then they will be spoken to first before anything else. We're not in the business to ban people that we don't agree with. That does not make a healthy discussion board. If you can't handle people disagreeing with your views en masse, then you, like the other two users mentioned, can leave by your own choice. Now in regards to myself -- I am here to voice my opinions and have discussions about a variety of topics, just like all of you. I'm not here to reprimand, punish, or censor any of you. As a mod, I'm simply on the lookout for pornographic spam posts. So they could be removed as quickly as possible. That is the extent of my power and job. I am not interested in getting active, contributing users banned.
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Post by yezziqa on Feb 22, 2017 1:56:33 GMT
What you wrote doesn't even make sense (to favor you). Try again. Favor me? Are you under the impression of that I am a christian? Sorry to disappoint you, i'm not. But on the question of how that don't favor you, the answer is that according to the bible (a book i've read several times, have you?) Jesus would never have talked down to homosexuals like you and others do. You are not a christian in the spirit of Jesus teachings, so that would make you a "christian". My best friend is a deacon and she is totally for gay marriage, female bishops, helping refugees etc, but according to you, she is not a christian. What a joke.
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