j2
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Post by j2 on Feb 5, 2017 4:38:40 GMT
Good luck finding a truly IMPARTIAL human moderator. Not gonna happen. If he's black he'll (>90% secretly) hate whites. If he's a white supremacist he'll want nothing to do with blacks and he'll (secretly) despise them... and so on and so forth. If he's none of those, speak in truth against what he loves right to his face, and see his "impartial" reaction then. Humans. Your claim here is the mods may "secretly" despise someone based on race, religion, sexual orientation, etc. So what if they secretly despise them, unless they act out on that, there is no problem. You seem intent and creating anew issue where none exists at this point. Is there a reason for such pessimism? Observation. And I don't "claim" anything I said. What I said already exists.
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j2
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Post by j2 on Feb 5, 2017 4:40:37 GMT
From definition and experience (set by internet examples with human interaction), for example, I'm a 'troublemaker' here already, because I'm speaking contrary to this very post itself and I'm facing the 'all-powerful' administrator himself in a direct way. I'm going against the crowd with my opinion. Right now you all may be 'impartial' about me and about this whole thing because of course politics and diplomacy strongly suggest so (to build up the numbers), but if human arrogance and such other traits kicked in, it would be an entirely different story altogether, or am I wrong? It's almost 'human nature', I'd say. Good luck finding a truly IMPARTIAL human moderator. Not gonna happen. If he's black he'll (>90% secretly) hate whites. If he's a white supremacist he'll want nothing to do with blacks and he'll (secretly) despise them... and so on and so forth. If he's none of those, speak in truth against what he loves right to his face, and see his "impartial" reaction then. Humans. But it is as it is. I'm speaking exactly what I think here, now that I can do it while I can do it. I tried that same thing some hours back on imdb with my years old account (since 2002) and I got "moderated" there. Keep in mind that 'forum maintenance' and ''moderation'' are two different things. Let's see how 'political "correctness"' and 'democracy' will work here this time around. Cheers. well said. enjoy your ban. Thank you for a fine example of the subtlety of what I said.
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ctown28
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Post by ctown28 on Feb 5, 2017 4:55:01 GMT
Your claim here is the mods may "secretly" despise someone based on race, religion, sexual orientation, etc. So what if they secretly despise them, unless they act out on that, there is no problem. You seem intent and creating anew issue where none exists at this point. Is there a reason for such pessimism? No he is right. It will happen if we get human moderators here. I am sure there are users from imdb who can write a code like that in imdb with automated moderation here too.... I don't think Proboards allows admits to insert codes for things like that, though I may be wrong.
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ctown28
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Post by ctown28 on Feb 5, 2017 4:58:46 GMT
Your claim here is the mods may "secretly" despise someone based on race, religion, sexual orientation, etc. So what if they secretly despise them, unless they act out on that, there is no problem. You seem intent and creating anew issue where none exists at this point. Is there a reason for such pessimism? Observation. And I don't "claim" anything I said. What I said already exists. Where does it exist? Have you had any posts deleted or edited because someone here disagreed with you? If this site does end up with some human mods, there is always someone that will test them to see how for they can push things. Why do I get the feeling you will be that person? You are already bitching about something that may or may not happen.
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artcurus
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Post by artcurus on Feb 5, 2017 5:14:31 GMT
I moderated a very large American Idol board with about 2000+ posts a day in it's prime. At one point, I was screening mods for the site. www.idolforums.comWe watched how people post and how they reacted to problems and how helpful they were. We then approached that person and see if they would like become a Mod. The system worked quite well. I hate to tell you this, but you MUST have Moderators if you don't want the board to descend into chaos and or be completely spammed out to it's almost useless. It's a given. One of the biggest complaints we had on IDF was how many threads that started off doing well, then got derailed. I was one of the few mods that actually handled member problems. I was dealing with a mix of preteen/teens and some rather unstable/immature adults. It was an absolute madhouse at times.
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j2
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Post by j2 on Feb 5, 2017 5:20:12 GMT
Observation. And I don't "claim" anything I said. What I said already exists. Where does it exist? Have you had any posts deleted or edited because someone here disagreed with you? If this site does end up with some human mods, there is always someone that will test them to see how for they can push things. Why do I get the feeling you will be that person? You are already bitching about something that may or may not happen. crown, see what I mean? You prove exactly what I say. I haven't said anything against you or against anyone here on a personal level, and already you're taking a hostile personal position against my words and me, and you are declaring on your own that I'm "bitching" around. Most likely you speak that way because you didn't like something I said; therefore you try to attack me. Now imagine you had "moderating" powers here. Where would this gradually go to? Your reply is a clear example of the existence of exactly THIS right here right now. Deletion of posts doesn't happen here yet because there are (basically) no moderators on board, and because the board is so new. Wait till 'the gang' crowds up against any 'voice of dissent'. I've seen it all before. Now let me ask you this, would you feel offended, for example, if I said that based on your response to me it seems you're like an impulsive lackwit of sorts? (Keep in mind I'm not saying it; I'm just asking). Now breathe a little and give me a clear answer about it: Would you feel offended by it Yes or No? Then you can take your answer as the answer to your top question. Cheers.
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j2
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Post by j2 on Feb 5, 2017 5:22:54 GMT
I moderated a very large American Idol board with about 2000+ posts a day in it's prime. At one point, I was screening mods for the site. www.idolforums.comWe watched how people post and how they reacted to problems and how helpful they were. We then approached that person and see if they would like become a Mod. The system worked quite well. I hate to tell you this, but you MUST have Moderators if you don't want the board to descend into chaos and or be completely spammed out to it's almost useless. It's a given. One of the biggest complaints we had on IDF was how many threads that started off doing well, then got derailed. I was one of the few mods that actually handled member problems. I was dealing with a mix of preteen/teens and some rather unstable/immature adults. It was an absolute madhouse at times. Is it true that right to this day imdb ran with automatic moderation for the most part?
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j2
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@j2
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Post by j2 on Feb 5, 2017 5:24:35 GMT
Where does it exist? Have you had any posts deleted or edited because someone here disagreed with you? If this site does end up with some human mods, there is always someone that will test them to see how for they can push things. Why do I get the feeling you will be that person? You are already bitching about something that may or may not happen. crown, see what I mean? You prove exactly what I say. I haven't said anything against you or against anyone here on a personal level, and already you're taking a hostile personal position against my words and me, and you are declaring on your own that I'm "bitching" around. Most likely you speak that way because you didn't like something I said; therefore you try to attack me. Now imagine you had "moderating" powers here. Where would this gradually go to? Your reply is a clear example of the existence of exactly THIS right here right now. Deletion of posts doesn't happen here yet because there are (basically) no moderators on board, and because the board is so new. Wait till 'the gang' crowds up against any 'voice of dissent'. I've seen it all before. Now let me ask you this, would you feel offended, for example, if I said that based on your response to me it seems you're like an impulsive lackwit of sorts? (Keep in mind I'm not saying it; I'm just asking). Now breathe a little and give me a clear answer about it: Would you feel offended by it Yes or No? Then you can take your answer as the answer to your top question. Cheers. correction: I meant "ctown".
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artcurus
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Post by artcurus on Feb 5, 2017 5:35:46 GMT
Where does it exist? Have you had any posts deleted or edited because someone here disagreed with you? If this site does end up with some human mods, there is always someone that will test them to see how for they can push things. Why do I get the feeling you will be that person? You are already bitching about something that may or may not happen. crown, see what I mean? You prove exactly what I say. I haven't said anything against you or against anyone here on a personal level, and already you're taking a hostile personal position against my words and me, and you are declaring on your own that I'm "bitching" around. Most likely you speak that way because you didn't like something I said; therefore you try to attack me. Now imagine you had "moderating" powers here. Where would this gradually go to? Your reply is a clear example of the existence of exactly THIS right here right now. Deletion of posts doesn't happen here yet because there are (basically) no moderators on board, and because the board is so new. Wait till 'the gang' crowds up against any 'voice of dissent'. I've seen it all before. Now let me ask you this, would you feel offended, for example, if I said that based on your response to me it seems you're like an impulsive lackwit of sorts? (Keep in mind I'm not saying it; I'm just asking). Now breathe a little and give me a clear answer about it: Would you feel offended by it Yes or No? Then you can take your answer as the answer to your top question. Cheers. Here's the thing J2, this type of post brings the entire board down. A lot of the posters on the IDF board complained that when I closed a thread, or deleted a post, they thought their "free speech/first amendment rights" were being violated, which was BS. They could post or say anything they wanted, but the rules of the board forbade bashing other members. It was about keeping the peace and making other posters feel welcome. For every bad poster, there's usually three more good posters waiting in the wings. And by the way, in my main forum, we had it to the point to where famous kids (kids that were on TV shows) felt comfortable, which was a big accomplishment. And there were posters that I absolutely despised. However, I always treated them equally. They usually ended up digging their own grave.
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ctown28
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Post by ctown28 on Feb 5, 2017 5:58:13 GMT
Where does it exist? Have you had any posts deleted or edited because someone here disagreed with you? If this site does end up with some human mods, there is always someone that will test them to see how for they can push things. Why do I get the feeling you will be that person? You are already bitching about something that may or may not happen. crown, see what I mean? You prove exactly what I say. I haven't said anything against you or against anyone here on a personal level, and already you're taking a hostile personal position against my words and me, and you are declaring on your own that I'm "bitching" around. Most likely you speak that way because you didn't like something I said; therefore you try to attack me. Now imagine you had "moderating" powers here. Where would this gradually go to? Your reply is a clear example of the existence of exactly THIS right here right now. Deletion of posts doesn't happen here yet because there are (basically) no moderators on board, and because the board is so new. Wait till 'the gang' crowds up against any 'voice of dissent'. I've seen it all before. Where am I being Hostile? Did I attack you and call you names? Are you offended because I said bitching I stead of Complaining? That's completely different, in your example, by calling me an impulsive lackwith is a personal attack. As far as to if I would be offended by it. I would not. I would blow it off. I see your point, but it's not all black and white. Sometimes a mod needs to be there. For example, if I use the new word, should that be allowed and just roll it off as to the poster is an asshole or should it be Removed? There has to be a middle ground between our opinions on something as trivial as message board moderators
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Post by Admin on Feb 5, 2017 6:01:02 GMT
From definition and experience (set by internet examples with human interaction), for example, I'm a 'troublemaker' here already, because I'm speaking contrary to this very post itself and I'm facing the 'all-powerful' administrator himself in a direct way. I'm going against the crowd with my opinion. You say that like it's a bad thing. Regarding impartiality, I believe it's true that we all have natural, unavoidable biases, but I was referring to the ability to not let those biases affect what amounts to a simple responsibility. For instance, as already mentioned, posting child pornography is clearly against the rules, so it must be removed if posted regardless of how a moderator may feel about it. In my opinion, speaking exactly what you think should not only be allowed, but encouraged. There will always be arguments and heated discussions, and people will get upset, especially considering the nature of some topics such as politics and religion. We are a passionate species, and that's generally a virtue as far as I'm concerned. However, if it becomes clear that someone's sole purpose is to cause trouble for no reason other than causing trouble, there should probably be some discussion as to whether or not said person should be allowed to continue doing so. Having said that, we've all seen troublemakers, and I'm not seeing any in this thread.
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j2
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Post by j2 on Feb 5, 2017 6:07:54 GMT
crown, see what I mean? You prove exactly what I say. I haven't said anything against you or against anyone here on a personal level, and already you're taking a hostile personal position against my words and me, and you are declaring on your own that I'm "bitching" around. Most likely you speak that way because you didn't like something I said; therefore you try to attack me. Now imagine you had "moderating" powers here. Where would this gradually go to? Your reply is a clear example of the existence of exactly THIS right here right now. Deletion of posts doesn't happen here yet because there are (basically) no moderators on board, and because the board is so new. Wait till 'the gang' crowds up against any 'voice of dissent'. I've seen it all before. Now let me ask you this, would you feel offended, for example, if I said that based on your response to me it seems you're like an impulsive lackwit of sorts? (Keep in mind I'm not saying it; I'm just asking). Now breathe a little and give me a clear answer about it: Would you feel offended by it Yes or No? Then you can take your answer as the answer to your top question. Cheers. Here's the thing J2, this type of post brings the entire board down. A lot of the posters on the IDF board complained that when I closed a thread, or deleted a post, they thought their "free speech/first amendment rights" were being violated, which was BS. They could post or say anything they wanted, but the rules of the board forbade bashing other members. It was about keeping the peace and making other posters feel welcome. For every bad poster, there's usually three more good posters waiting in the wings. And by the way, in my main forum, we had it to the point to where famous kids (kids that were on TV shows) felt comfortable, which was a big accomplishment. And there were posters that I absolutely despised. However, I always treated them equally. They usually ended up digging their own grave. So in other words this ctown guy gets hostile with me already and I'm the one in the wrong. How's that for 'equality'? Gotta laugh. Anyway suit yourselves. I've said EXACTLY what I think and I could care less if I keep posting here or not. I never cared on imdb either and I never had a problem of any sort, personal or otherwise, since 2002 and until today when I had the PLEASURE to tell the imdb owners exactly what I think of them right to their face. This kind of post brings down a board only if people like you bring it down or close it down. Example: imdb.
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ctown28
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Post by ctown28 on Feb 5, 2017 6:18:58 GMT
So in other words this ctown guy gets hostile with me already and I'm the one in the wrong. How's that for 'equality'? Gotta laugh. Anyway suit yourselves. I've said EXACTLY what I think and I could care less if I keep posting here or not. I never cared on imdb either and I never had a problem of any sort, personal or otherwise, since 2002 and until today when I had the PLEASURE to tell the imdb owners exactly what I think of them right to their face. This kind of post brings down a board only if people like you bring it down or close it down. Example: imdb. Where did I get hostile with You? I gave you my opinion and claimed you are bitching about things that may or may not happen. Are you that fragile that something like that becomes hostile. Someone who disagree is hostile. It seems lie neither imdb nor this site is the place for you. You get offended way to easily. Look at it like watching TV. If you don't like the show, change the channel and dont watch no more.
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ctown28
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Post by ctown28 on Feb 5, 2017 6:23:30 GMT
I would also like to add, that contrary to your belief, if I were a mod, I would NOT edit, delete ortake any action in regards to this disagreement
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j2
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Post by j2 on Feb 5, 2017 6:39:28 GMT
From definition and experience (set by internet examples with human interaction), for example, I'm a 'troublemaker' here already, because I'm speaking contrary to this very post itself and I'm facing the 'all-powerful' administrator himself in a direct way. I'm going against the crowd with my opinion. You say that like it's a bad thing. Regarding impartiality, I believe it's true that we all have natural, unavoidable biases, but I was referring to the ability to not let those biases affect what amounts to a simple responsibility. For instance, as already mentioned, posting child pornography is clearly against the rules, so it must be removed if posted regardless of how a moderator may feel about it. In my opinion, speaking exactly what you think should not only be allowed, but encouraged. There will always be arguments and heated discussions, and people will get upset, especially considering the nature of some topics such as politics and religion. We are a passionate species, and that's generally a virtue as far as I'm concerned. However, if it becomes clear that someone's sole purpose is to cause trouble for no reason other than causing trouble, there should probably be some discussion as to whether or not said person should be allowed to continue doing so. Having said that, we've all seen troublemakers, and I'm not seeing any in this thread. admin, I appreciate your effort here. This board is something I mght have done myself if I hadn't seen it done first. Action. When I speak of moderation notice that I place it as 'moderation'. The reason for it is that what happens in most boards where there are human "moderators" involved is that a powerful GANG is formed, the gang of the "moderators", and immediately when this happens tyranny takes place in one form or the next against anyone they choose to gang up against. This 'ganging' up against individuals happens very subtly most of the time. It's tyranny and it's widespread. As long as the users remain "civil" in the moderators' eyes, of course, all is "good" regardless of right or wrong. But let a voice sound strongly in their ears, and immediately they start to do what they do against that voice, until it is controlled/suppressed, or until it is shut down for good. I rarely visit boards for that same reason, because I despise tyranny in any shape, way or form. imdb was one of the last places I went to and only for movie-related things. Forum maintenance and cleanup is a very good and necessary practice, of course, also to remove garbage, but when that maintenance turns to tyranny disguised as 'moderation' then people might as well have tape over their mouths or rope around the limbs before they think of posting a single word. The 'winds of change' will (have to) reflect interactions on this board. Let's see how it goes.
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j2
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Post by j2 on Feb 5, 2017 6:40:26 GMT
I would also like to add, that contrary to your belief, if I were a mod, I would NOT edit, delete ortake any action in regards to this disagreement sure you wouldn't.
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ctown28
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Post by ctown28 on Feb 5, 2017 6:45:55 GMT
I would also like to add, that contrary to your belief, if I were a mod, I would NOT edit, delete ortake any action in regards to this disagreement sure you wouldn't. Believe what you want. It doesn't matter. It seems you are so afraid of what people think of you that you need to lash out. Enjoy that life. Sorry Admin, I tried to explain it to him but he won't let it go. Any mod is evil
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Post by Admin on Feb 5, 2017 6:46:06 GMT
j2 : What I have in mind would be per-forum moderators, meaning that each moderator would be granted responsibility only for his or her own specific forum as opposed to the entire site. Do you think that might reduce the possibility of such a tyranny?
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artcurus
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Post by artcurus on Feb 5, 2017 7:18:33 GMT
J2
Not necessarily. If the climate of the board is healthy, the Mods are generally respected, the posters may gripe sometimes but that's the way it is. With me, the posters knew all had to do was PM me if there was a problem, I even let them scream at me in PM, which was saying quite a bit because of the age range.
I saved a lot of posters that should have been banned but because they were popular, I worked WITH those posters.
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j2
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Post by j2 on Feb 5, 2017 7:27:24 GMT
j2 : What I have in mind would be per-forum moderators, meaning that each moderator would be granted responsibility only for his or her own specific forum as opposed to the entire site. Do you think that might reduce the possibility of such a tyranny? I'm not sure that it would, admin, but I don't underestimate the capacity of a weak mind, when left to itself, to go its own way for wrong. I think it may create many little 'mini-fiefdoms'. I have very little experience with the internal workings of the politics of internet board 'moderation', but I suppose it's POLITICS all the same. I don't trust politics or politicians. On the internals of 'moderator' power structure and distribution I wouldn't say much, but on its effects there is tons of visible experience which I have noted and observed. I think you have great work ahead of you. Truly, I wish you and this board all the very best and I hope to see some imdb butt kicked pretty good really really soon from this board. If I were you, I'd keep the grass cut really short and the body very close to it, in order to feel the SNAKES.
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