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Post by Deleted on May 26, 2017 13:24:58 GMT
like hart wasn't when they put him in the ring with mcmahon at 'Mania and 'protected' him for the sake of putting on a show? 'bad show' or not - they did it - and i'm willing to bet more than one person purchased a ticket for it or purchased the PPV. hogan vs. heel cena = money in my eyes as much as a crapfest it may be in the ring Exactly. And it was terrible. It bored the audience and did nothing for either man. It worked in "protecting Hart" because Bret was still the younger guy, so he should be the one dishing out the punishment on the non-wrestler. Protecting Hogan means the younger, physically fit Cena would be the one taking most of the beating. Ridiculous. Even in "sports entertainment." Which is the big reason not to. It wouldn't be entertaining. There is no money in Hogan vs Cena. No real money anyway. The real money was Cena vs Taker. Exactly. There's no plausible way Hogan could beat up Cena. Which is why you have the run-ins, Hogan resorting to 'cheating' ala Hollywood Hogan as the crowd goes nuts ala 'Mania 18. He low blows constantly, throws salt in Cena's eyes, throws a fireball in his face ala the Eddie Gilbert incident. Perhaps there's a dirty ref. It wouldn't be Hulk 'Hulking' up ala the 80s and early 90s. It would be 'Hollywood'. Cena vs. The Undefeated 'Taker at 'Mania sounds intriguing to me. Cena vs. Hogan - I'd buy an old school PPV for that for 60 bucks. Last PPV I bought I believe was Rock Vs. Cena at 'Mania - because it had that once in a lifetime Icon Vs. Icon feel (even though it happened twice )
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Post by PreachCaleb on May 26, 2017 14:25:22 GMT
Now it's just another over-booked mess. Which was the same problem with Bret vs Vince and then HHH vs Sting. The audience is aware it'd all be a distraction to cover up for Hogan's lack of physical capabilities.
Convoluted booking doesn't make for better entertainment.
Hogan vs Rock was simple. Just the two of them for the entire match. Cena vs Rock was the same. Just two guys battling it out.
Cena vs Taker was the match fans were talking about. Hoping it would happen some day. It was the last truly big match for either guy at Wrestlemania.
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Post by Deleted on May 26, 2017 14:58:52 GMT
Now it's just another over-booked mess. Which was the same problem with Bret vs Vince and then HHH vs Sting. The audience is aware it'd all be a distraction to cover up for Hogan's lack of physical capabilities. Convoluted booking doesn't make for better entertainment. Hogan vs Rock was simple. Just the two of them for the entire match. Cena vs Rock was the same. Just two guys battling it out. Cena vs Taker was the match fans were talking about. Hoping it would happen some day. It was the last truly big match for either guy at Wrestlemania. sometimes overbooked messes are entertaining in a trainwreck sort of way we're talking an old Hogan here and it's 'Mania for a once in a lifetime match. not Dynamite Kid vs. Justin Liger. despite the haters of the Hart/McMahon match - I bet a lot of fans just loved seeing Hart in the ring at 'Mania again. same goes for Sting getting a shot at 'Mania and watching the nostalgia factor of DX and the nWo getting involved. it's 'Mania. may have been overbooked messes -but for an old school fan - it's about seeing your favorites in the ring again. hysterical shoot about an overbooked mess when Hogan/Savage were fairly new to WCW and Sullivan pretty much had everyone under the sun run in the ring to take out Hogan/Savage: Link: Hogan and Savage Take on the World!For fans that can suspend their disbelief and realize it's a 'show' - I can appreciate the over the top cheese factor for the sake of putting Cena/Hogan in the same ring at 'Mania.
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Post by PreachCaleb on May 26, 2017 15:55:25 GMT
Not if the overbooked mess is boring, as Bret and Vince proved.
And while some fans might've enjoyed watching Bret/McMahon, the vast majority were bored for most of it. All the overbooked nonsense wasn't enough to keep interest. Fans just wanted Bret vs Vince.
Sullivan's angle may have worked 25 years ago when Hogan/Savage were still a new commodity to WCW (and let's be honest, Savage was the one getting way bigger pops than Hogan). But fans are no longer interested in the smoke and mirrors if the match itself doesn't deliver. The days of immobile wrestlers are long gone.
I can understand some people might want to see it just to see it. But a huge percentage of the fans will just roll their eyes. Especially considering it could be time given to younger guys. I do like seeing my old favorites come Wrestlemania but not if they're going to bore me. Or embarrass the business.
A big problem with the WWE is their constant over reliance on the older stars come Wrestlemania. Any Hogan match, even against Cena, would just be another notch in a list of long-past-their-prime stars.
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Post by Deleted on May 26, 2017 16:11:52 GMT
Not if the overbooked mess is boring, as Bret and Vince proved. And while some fans might've enjoyed watching Bret/McMahon, the vast majority were bored for most of it. All the overbooked nonsense wasn't enough to keep interest. Fans just wanted Bret vs Vince. Sullivan's angle may have worked 25 years ago when Hogan/Savage were still a new commodity to WCW (and let's be honest, Savage was the one getting way bigger pops than Hogan). But fans are no longer interested in the smoke and mirrors if the match itself doesn't deliver. The days of immobile wrestlers are long gone. I can understand some people might want to see it just to see it. But a huge percentage of the fans will just roll their eyes. Especially considering it could be time given to younger guys. I do like seeing my old favorites come Wrestlemania but not if they're going to bore me. Or embarrass the business. A big problem with the WWE is their constant over reliance on the older stars come Wrestlemania. Any Hogan match, even against Cena, would just be another notch in a list of long-past-their-prime stars. Royal Rumble is my favorite PPV. 'Mania a close 2nd. The others I can take or leave - although I used to be a big Survivor Series fan. I always regarded Rumble and 'Mania like a giant party. A spectacle. A 'show' you my tailgate to and 'celebrate' dare I say the entire weekend. I think some of 'today's fans' may roll their eyes. I'm not up to date to on the ratings, buy rates, etc - I was under the assumption the product was on the downturn for years (yes - I know that can be attributed to a lot like lack of competition). Being some of 'today's fans' may roll their eyes - for 'Mania - I think the match brings in what they're looking for - money and ratings. I'm willing to bet a Cena heel turn everyone has been clamoring for and a Hogan return after his scandal would spike ratings and interest just a bit. I know I'd tune in as opposed to today. If you give me an opening and closing segment involving both Hogan and Cena during the 'Road to Wrestlemania' - I'm tuning in. Not so much for TJ Perkins vs. the British guy with the Umbrella.
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Post by PreachCaleb on May 26, 2017 16:41:08 GMT
I'd say WWE also thinks of Mania as a spectacle. To the detriment of the rest of the year. They seem to only really focus on Wrestlemania. Making it as big and as grandiose (not necessarily as good) as possible. Which is why the rest of the year suffers. Storylines start and stop. Pushes and momentum are killed. No long term planning hurts most of the roster. That is what is hemorrhaging viewers and fans. They only come back for Wrestlemania because the rest of the year is a mess.
A returning Hogan would not help that. Fans old enough to have cheered him would be roll their eyes if he stepped back into the ring. Younger fans would laugh at his immobility and attempts to sell offense and defense. Even a Cena heel turn at this point would be a waste as he's been taking more and more time off from wrestling.
That's pretty much my feeling but in reverse. I'll tune in for TJ versus Jack Gallagher but not for Cena and certainly not for Hogan. Rock against Cena made sense because it was essentially one generation's clash against the one that came before. But Hogan is a good two or three generations removed from Cena. It'd be like wanting Bruno Sammartino to take on Stone Cold at Wrestlemania.
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Post by Deleted on May 26, 2017 16:53:55 GMT
I'd say WWE also thinks of Mania as a spectacle. To the detriment of the rest of the year. They seem to only really focus on Wrestlemania. Making it as big and as grandiose (not necessarily as good) as possible. Which is why the rest of the year suffers. Storylines start and stop. Pushes and momentum are killed. No long term planning hurts most of the roster. That is what is hemorrhaging viewers and fans. They only come back for Wrestlemania because the rest of the year is a mess. A returning Hogan would not help that. Fans old enough to have cheered him would be roll their eyes if he stepped back into the ring. Younger fans would laugh at his immobility and attempts to sell offense and defense. Even a Cena heel turn at this point would be a waste as he's been taking more and more time off from wrestling. That's pretty much my feeling but in reverse. I'll tune in for TJ versus Jack Gallagher but not for Cena and certainly not for Hogan. Rock against Cena made sense because it was essentially one generation's clash against the one that came before. But Hogan is a good two or three generations removed from Cena. It'd be like wanting Bruno Sammartino to take on Stone Cold at Wrestlemania. Interesting. So the Main Event at next years 'Mania you would tune in for: TJ Perkins vs. Zach Gallagher but not: Cena vs. Hogan? I appreciate your love for the current product. For me - a Cena heel turn that everyone under the sun has been begging for for years sounds Gold to me. You could have Hogan come out of nowhere just to confront him. Turns into weeks of epic beatdowns. Pretty much Cena beating up on an old man. Few weeks before 'Mania - Hogan comes out in the Black and White and nWo colors channeling his old heelish self which can account for a lot of his heelish tactics in the main event as the crowd goes nuts. That's months work of a great storyline right there leading up to 'Mania. Just for me at least. You have the old run-ins of past stars like Hall, Nash, Flair, (Sting returning the favor?) - pretty much a bunch of old timers trying to help out Hogan. All while Cena and his wife (is it Nikki or Brie??) who everyone can't stand are cutting heel promos in the ring from week to week. That's money right there to me
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Post by shadyvsesham on May 27, 2017 17:12:57 GMT
I know Hogan is old, I know Hogan isnt the best wrestler, I know Hogan isnt the most likable guy (Well, to the guys backstage) and I get he couldnt even take bumps in 2002.
But Cena V Hogan one last Hogan match. 80-90s Icon first 00-10 Icon. It is sports entertainment, and sure, Cena would probably come out on top, I dig it. I think it be the ultimate of ultimates sport entertainment match.
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Post by PreachCaleb on May 29, 2017 13:33:22 GMT
I'd say WWE also thinks of Mania as a spectacle. To the detriment of the rest of the year. They seem to only really focus on Wrestlemania. Making it as big and as grandiose (not necessarily as good) as possible. Which is why the rest of the year suffers. Storylines start and stop. Pushes and momentum are killed. No long term planning hurts most of the roster. That is what is hemorrhaging viewers and fans. They only come back for Wrestlemania because the rest of the year is a mess. A returning Hogan would not help that. Fans old enough to have cheered him would be roll their eyes if he stepped back into the ring. Younger fans would laugh at his immobility and attempts to sell offense and defense. Even a Cena heel turn at this point would be a waste as he's been taking more and more time off from wrestling. That's pretty much my feeling but in reverse. I'll tune in for TJ versus Jack Gallagher but not for Cena and certainly not for Hogan. Rock against Cena made sense because it was essentially one generation's clash against the one that came before. But Hogan is a good two or three generations removed from Cena. It'd be like wanting Bruno Sammartino to take on Stone Cold at Wrestlemania. Interesting. So the Main Event at next years 'Mania you would tune in for: TJ Perkins vs. Zach Gallagher but not: Cena vs. Hogan? I appreciate your love for the current product. For me - a Cena heel turn that everyone under the sun has been begging for for years sounds Gold to me. You could have Hogan come out of nowhere just to confront him. Turns into weeks of epic beatdowns. Pretty much Cena beating up on an old man. Few weeks before 'Mania - Hogan comes out in the Black and White and nWo colors channeling his old heelish self which can account for a lot of his heelish tactics in the main event as the crowd goes nuts. That's months work of a great storyline right there leading up to 'Mania. Just for me at least. You have the old run-ins of past stars like Hall, Nash, Flair, (Sting returning the favor?) - pretty much a bunch of old timers trying to help out Hogan. All while Cena and his wife (is it Nikki or Brie??) who everyone can't stand are cutting heel promos in the ring from week to week. That's money right there to me I've got the Network, so I'm tuning in regardless. However, I would most certainly be more interested in TJ versus Gallagher (I love that guy, always entertaining). I'll admit, at this point, neither TJ nor Gallagher would be ready for a Mania main event; then again, neither was Austin when he was The Ringmaster. But that didn't mean I'd rather see Sammartino or Backlund main eventing Wrestlemania ahead of him. The past is great if it can still deliver in the ring.
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Post by Deleted on May 30, 2017 0:15:38 GMT
Interesting. So the Main Event at next years 'Mania you would tune in for: TJ Perkins vs. Zach Gallagher but not: Cena vs. Hogan? I appreciate your love for the current product. For me - a Cena heel turn that everyone under the sun has been begging for for years sounds Gold to me. You could have Hogan come out of nowhere just to confront him. Turns into weeks of epic beatdowns. Pretty much Cena beating up on an old man. Few weeks before 'Mania - Hogan comes out in the Black and White and nWo colors channeling his old heelish self which can account for a lot of his heelish tactics in the main event as the crowd goes nuts. That's months work of a great storyline right there leading up to 'Mania. Just for me at least. You have the old run-ins of past stars like Hall, Nash, Flair, (Sting returning the favor?) - pretty much a bunch of old timers trying to help out Hogan. All while Cena and his wife (is it Nikki or Brie??) who everyone can't stand are cutting heel promos in the ring from week to week. That's money right there to me I've got the Network, so I'm tuning in regardless. However, I would most certainly be more interested in TJ versus Gallagher (I love that guy, always entertaining). I'll admit, at this point, neither TJ nor Gallagher would be ready for a Mania main event; then again, neither was Austin when he was The Ringmaster. But that didn't mean I'd rather see Sammartino or Backlund main eventing Wrestlemania ahead of him. The past is great if it can still deliver in the ring. the guy with the umbrella does seem like a keeper. tough as nails and he's highly entertaining. never heard him yet on the mic though. they should have big things planned for him. i look at him and i see 'potential'. the perkins guy? i really don't get that for the life of me. i'm a channel changer and tune in and out and read up on sports entertainment sporadically so i may come across sounding ignorant - but i listen to people bash WWE for 'shoving' Cena and Reigns down their throats - what has this Perkins guy done to deserve airtime?
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Post by PreachCaleb on May 30, 2017 13:03:29 GMT
Perkins has done plenty to deserve air time. The guy's been wrestling all over the world for almost 20 years, even though he's only 32. The problem right now with TJ is the same problem that has plagued WWE for decades. They bring in guys who've accomplished so much and end up doing nothing with them or neutering them. TJ Perkins was one of the highlights of the CWC, putting on fantastic matches against guys like Kota Ibushi, and bringing people to their feet. But once on the main roster, he's saddle with five minute matches and pretty much has to wrestle the cliche WWE style.
This is the same reason WWE fans don't understand how dominant Vader was in WCW and Japan or why Ric Flair is considered the greatest of all time by many wrestlers. WWE just doesn't let them unleash the way other promotions did.
Now they're even doing it with Shinsuke Nakamura.
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Post by Deleted on May 30, 2017 19:31:56 GMT
Perkins has done plenty to deserve air time. The guy's been wrestling all over the world for almost 20 years, even though he's only 32. The problem right now with TJ is the same problem that has plagued WWE for decades. They bring in guys who've accomplished so much and end up doing nothing with them or neutering them. TJ Perkins was one of the highlights of the CWC, putting on fantastic matches against guys like Kota Ibushi, and bringing people to their feet. But once on the main roster, he's saddle with five minute matches and pretty much has to wrestle the cliche WWE style. This is the same reason WWE fans don't understand how dominant Vader was in WCW and Japan or why Ric Flair is considered the greatest of all time by many wrestlers. WWE just doesn't let them unleash the way other promotions did. Now they're even doing it with Shinsuke Nakamura. so now this TJ Perkins guy is Vader good lord
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Post by PreachCaleb on May 30, 2017 20:12:05 GMT
An entire paragraph and that's all you got from it. Good lord indeed.
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Post by Deleted on May 30, 2017 21:35:42 GMT
An entire paragraph and that's all you got from it. Good lord indeed. you'll have to excuse me - i have a low attention span. which probably explains my disdain for TJ Perkins and love for the 'Kamalas' of the World
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Post by petrolino on Jun 4, 2017 4:12:45 GMT
Jinder Mahal is a wrestler everybody needs to contend with, combining commitment, discipline, strength, skill, power and belief. Can't wait to see him face off against the improv magician A J Styles.
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