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Post by hi224 on Sept 1, 2020 23:16:21 GMT
At all
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marco266
Sophomore
@marco266
Posts: 535
Likes: 226
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Post by marco266 on Sept 2, 2020 0:34:32 GMT
To discuss or not to discuss. That is the question.
I say discuss.
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Post by onethreetwo on Sept 2, 2020 0:47:11 GMT
I took a class on Shakespeare in college as a requirement for my minor in Creative Writing. I had a lot of trouble understanding what I was reading. I didn't do very well.
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Post by amyghost on Sept 2, 2020 11:46:55 GMT
Yeah. I personally think the theory that Edward de Vere, 17th Earl of Oxford, was the 'real Shakespeare' (author of the plays and sonnets) is complete bunk. You can raise a lot of hackles in the Shakespearean academic community these days by saying this--it's become a widely accepted pet theory among many.
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Post by hi224 on Sept 2, 2020 13:06:22 GMT
Yeah. I personally think the theory that Edward de Vere, 17th Earl of Oxford, was the 'real Shakespeare' (author of the plays and sonnets) is complete bunk. You can raise a lot of hackles in the Shakespearean academic community these days by saying this--it's become a widely accepted pet theory among many. Let's discuss plays.
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Post by marianne48 on Sept 3, 2020 1:10:57 GMT
So was Shakespeare the Walt Disney of his day? He had a lot of help from his collaborators, then neglected to give them proper credit? I read a lot of Shakespeare's plays in school, and said goodbye to Will after graduation and never looked back. I did like both movie versions of To Be Or Not to Be, as well as the "Homicidal Ham" episode of Cheers, in which Diane plays a scene from Othello with an unstable actor. That's aboutt as close as I want to get to Shakespeare's plays at this point.
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Post by Prime etc. on Sept 3, 2020 5:41:23 GMT
And the poor beetle, that we tread upon, In corporal sufferance finds a pang as great As when a giant dies.
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marco266
Sophomore
@marco266
Posts: 535
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Post by marco266 on Sept 3, 2020 20:57:34 GMT
And the poor beetle, that we tread upon, In corporal sufferance finds a pang as great As when a giant dies. Are you saying John Lennon's death is equal to the death of a guy from the New York Giants football team?
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Post by yougotastewgoinbaby on Sept 4, 2020 21:34:52 GMT
I don’t
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Post by hi224 on Sept 5, 2020 2:31:18 GMT
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Post by yougotastewgoinbaby on Sept 5, 2020 4:55:38 GMT
I just wanted to make sure you knew about my position in regards to the topic of the discussion of the Bard and his various works of literature and scripts for plays and the performing arts, lest there be some mistaken idea about whether or not I wanted to participate in such a perverted discussion. I hope I have made myself clear: I don't want to. I will now see myself out. Thank you, and regards.
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Post by The Herald Erjen on Sept 5, 2020 10:00:58 GMT
Did he even exist?
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Post by amyghost on Sept 5, 2020 16:40:41 GMT
Yeah. I personally think the theory that Edward de Vere, 17th Earl of Oxford, was the 'real Shakespeare' (author of the plays and sonnets) is complete bunk. You can raise a lot of hackles in the Shakespearean academic community these days by saying this--it's become a widely accepted pet theory among many. The reason I dislike it is because there’s no reason Shakespeare couldn’t have written his plays. Shakespeare along with his collaborators were in the theatre and may gave done a lot improv writing scenes in the process rather than a lonely playwright like David Mamet, but a team effort to put into production and sell tickets rather than to create great art. It possible Shakespeare never wrote any of the plays entirely by himself. De Vere, Marlowe, and others probably contributed somewhat. I think the other theory is Marlowe wrote the plays and used Shakespeare as a beard to not draw attention to his homosexuality. The Marlowe theory is interesting; I'd never heard that one. But yep, it's a certainty that there was a lot of cross-collaboration among the playwrights of Shakes' time. It's probable that many of the plays of that era had more than one writer's hand in on them, the Bard definitely included. One of the reasons that I object to the de Vere theory--among the many there exist to object to--is its plain snobbery: the inference that only someone of royal/aristocratic birth could have written of the lives of kings and princes as Shakespeare did. This supposes the notion that the plays are some manner of manuals of courtly etiquette first and foremost, as opposed to the penetrating psychological studies they frequently are. That they are formatted within the context of royalty is no more than the adherence to the centuries old notion, come down from Greek tragedy, that only those of noble birth could be the proper exponents for this type of character-driven drama. Shakespeare, whoever he was, did not of necessity need to be a member of the aristocracy to have written them.
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mmexis
Sophomore
@mmexis
Posts: 860
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Post by mmexis on Sept 7, 2020 3:06:21 GMT
Well, I would like to, but this is all pointless rambling at this point.
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Post by mikef6 on Sept 8, 2020 0:54:32 GMT
Yeah. I personally think the theory that Edward de Vere, 17th Earl of Oxford, was the 'real Shakespeare' (author of the plays and sonnets) is complete bunk. You can raise a lot of hackles in the Shakespearean academic community these days by saying this--it's become a widely accepted pet theory among many. For me, the question can be settled with two simple bullet points: 1. The documentary evidence from the late 16th and early 17th centuries linking William Shakespeare of Stratford with the plays and poems is overwhelming. 2. There is absolutely no evidence, zero, zilch, nada, nothing to indicate that anyone else is connected to the plays and poems. Not even a rumor. Not even a whisper. Nothing for 250 years after Shakespeare's death when an American, Leticia Bacon, published a book claiming the a Shakespeare comtemp, Sir Francis Bacon, had really authored the plays.
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Post by mikef6 on Sept 8, 2020 1:34:34 GMT
OK. Much Ado About Nothing. The world’s first fully formed rom-com. A brilliantly written and constructed play that was always popular but with Kenneth Branagh’s 1993 film, it got new life and is now performed by high schools, colleges, and community theaters everywhere. As You Like It. A kind of companion to MAAN except that “As You Like It” is virtually plotless but lively and witty with an adorable heroine. Rosalind is Shakespeare’s longest role for a female character. Longer even than Juliet and Cleopatra. Rosalind is so intelligent and active that she makes this play another popular one for amateur players. A Midsummer Night’s Dream. One of his most produced plays. A masterpiece of atmosphere and dreamlike qualities. I think I have seen more stagings of this play than any other. The War Of The Roses. You can explore this famous conflict in English history through 8 Shakespeare plays, actually 2 tetralogies. Oddly, the first 4 plays were produced very early in his writing career and covered the end of the rebellion. Later, as he was really starting to cook, the second tetralogy covering the first half of the history came out. These include the plays with Falstaff and Prince Hal. Julius Caesar. This is what I studied in high school back in the 1960s. The story is that JC was common in public schools at the time because it had almost an all male cast so no sex. Romeo and Juliet. The 1968 film directed by Franco Zeffirelli landed like a bombshell and turned on an entire generation of young people. There are still professors of literature at work who were first inspired by this film. After the ‘60s, R&J replaced Julius Caesar in schools even though it had loads of sex. The play itself is a corker with a hugely exciting action scene in the third act Turning Point. Always fun to watch a production. Hamlet. Of the four major tragedies that define William Shakespeare for a lot of people, Hamlet is the one I am most reluctant to sit down to. I sail along until the time Hamlet gets sent to England to be assassinated, then I usually move on. The last fourth of the drama really drops in interest for me. Othello. The true lead player, for me, is the villain, Iago. Like they say in the movies, the bad guys are always the most fun while the heroes are sometimes a drag. Well, Othello is not a drag but Iago is just so fast, so inventive, so great in evil improvisation that it is almost admirable. Further, I think we see in Iago, a kind of personality that is more modern than Early English: the sociopath who really has no personality. An empty man with only his own desires and ambitions but no one else matters. He is the serial killer of the future. Creepy and scary. King Lear. One of western literature’s true monuments yet it probably premiered one afternoon in an essentially outdoor theater to a mixed audience of tradespeople and nobility who were there for a bit of entertainment and socialization. Shakespeare had rewritten an older play that many of the theater goers were no doubt familiar with but the new work had some significant changes. For one, the old play ended happily. I sometimes wonder what their thoughts had been when they encountered the bleak, hopeless apocalypse of this new drama. Macbeth. Another common target of advanced English in high schools. This is the shortest of Shakespeare’s tragedies and it goes straight to the point and to the gut. The Macbeth Couple makes one of the most famous fictional marriages. They really come to life and seem real.
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Post by hi224 on Sept 8, 2020 2:53:58 GMT
OK. Much Ado About Nothing. The world’s first fully formed rom-com. A brilliantly written and constructed play that was always popular but with Kenneth Branagh’s 1993 film, it got new life and is now performed by high schools, colleges, and community theaters everywhere. As You Like It. A kind of companion to MAAN except that “As You Like It” is virtually plotless but lively and witty with an adorable heroine. Rosalind is Shakespeare’s longest role for a female character. Longer even than Juliet and Cleopatra. Rosalind is so intelligent and active that she makes this play another popular one for amateur players. A Midsummer Night’s Dream. One of his most produced plays. A masterpiece of atmosphere and dreamlike qualities. I think I have seen more stagings of this play than any other.The War Of The Roses. You can explore this famous conflict in English history through 8 Shakespeare plays, actually 4 tetralogies. Oddly, the first 4 plays were produced very early in his writing career and covered the end of the rebellion. Later, as he was really starting to cook, the second tetralogy covering the first half of the history came out. These include the plays with Falstaff and Prince Hal. Julius Caesar. This is what I studied in high school back in the 1960s. The story is that JC was common in public schools at the time because it had almost an all male cast so no sex. Romeo and Juliet. The 1968 film directed by Franco Zeffirelli landed like a bombshell and turned on an entire generation of young people. There are still professors of literature at work who were first inspired by this film. After the ‘60s, R&J replaced Julius Caesar in schools even though it had loads of sex. The play itself is a corker with a hugely exciting action scene in the third act Turning Point. Always fun to watch a production. Hamlet. Of the four major tragedies that define William Shakespeare for a lot of people, Hamlet is the one I am most reluctant to sit down to. I sail along until the time Hamlet gets sent to England to be assassinated, then I usually move on. The last fourth of the drama really drops in interest for me. Othello. The true lead player, for me, is the villain, Iago. Like they say in the movies, the bad guys are always the most fun while the heroes are sometimes a drag. Well, Othello is not a drag but Iago is just so fast, so inventive, so great in evil improvisation that it is almost admirable. Further, I think we see in Iago, a kind of personality that is more modern than Early English: the sociopath who really has no personality. An empty man with only his own desires and ambitions but no one else matters. He is the serial killer of the future. Creepy and scary. King Lear. One of western literature’s true monuments yet it probably premiered one afternoon in an essentially outdoor theater to a mixed audience of tradespeople and nobility who were there for a bit of entertainment and socialization. Shakespeare had rewritten an older play that many of the theater goers were no doubt familiar with but the new work had some significant changes. For one, the old play ended happily. I sometimes wonder what their thoughts had been when they encountered the bleak, hopeless apocalypse of this new drama. Macbeth. Another common target of advanced English in high schools. This is the shortest of Shakespeare’s tragedies and it goes straight to the point and to the gut. The Macbeth Couple makes one of the most famous fictional marriages. They really come to life and seem real. saw it last fall, I really wanna see Coriolanus.
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Post by hi224 on Sept 8, 2020 2:57:21 GMT
OK. Much Ado About Nothing. The world’s first fully formed rom-com. A brilliantly written and constructed play that was always popular but with Kenneth Branagh’s 1993 film, it got new life and is now performed by high schools, colleges, and community theaters everywhere. As You Like It. A kind of companion to MAAN except that “As You Like It” is virtually plotless but lively and witty with an adorable heroine. Rosalind is Shakespeare’s longest role for a female character. Longer even than Juliet and Cleopatra. Rosalind is so intelligent and active that she makes this play another popular one for amateur players. A Midsummer Night’s Dream. One of his most produced plays. A masterpiece of atmosphere and dreamlike qualities. I think I have seen more stagings of this play than any other. The War Of The Roses. You can explore this famous conflict in English history through 8 Shakespeare plays, actually 4 tetralogies. Oddly, the first 4 plays were produced very early in his writing career and covered the end of the rebellion. Later, as he was really starting to cook, the second tetralogy covering the first half of the history came out. These include the plays with Falstaff and Prince Hal. Julius Caesar. This is what I studied in high school back in the 1960s. The story is that JC was common in public schools at the time because it had almost an all male cast so no sex. Romeo and Juliet. The 1968 film directed by Franco Zeffirelli landed like a bombshell and turned on an entire generation of young people. There are still professors of literature at work who were first inspired by this film. After the ‘60s, R&J replaced Julius Caesar in schools even though it had loads of sex. The play itself is a corker with a hugely exciting action scene in the third act Turning Point. Always fun to watch a production. Hamlet. Of the four major tragedies that define William Shakespeare for a lot of people, Hamlet is the one I am most reluctant to sit down to. I sail along until the time Hamlet gets sent to England to be assassinated, then I usually move on. The last fourth of the drama really drops in interest for me. Othello. The true lead player, for me, is the villain, Iago. Like they say in the movies, the bad guys are always the most fun while the heroes are sometimes a drag. Well, Othello is not a drag but Iago is just so fast, so inventive, so great in evil improvisation that it is almost admirable. Further, I think we see in Iago, a kind of personality that is more modern than Early English: the sociopath who really has no personality. An empty man with only his own desires and ambitions but no one else matters. He is the serial killer of the future. Creepy and scary.
King Lear. One of western literature’s true monuments yet it probably premiered one afternoon in an essentially outdoor theater to a mixed audience of tradespeople and nobility who were there for a bit of entertainment and socialization. Shakespeare had rewritten an older play that many of the theater goers were no doubt familiar with but the new work had some significant changes. For one, the old play ended happily. I sometimes wonder what their thoughts had been when they encountered the bleak, hopeless apocalypse of this new drama. Macbeth. Another common target of advanced English in high schools. This is the shortest of Shakespeare’s tragedies and it goes straight to the point and to the gut. The Macbeth Couple makes one of the most famous fictional marriages. They really come to life and seem real. what'd you think of Iagos motivations? why did you he what was done? what did you think of the other relationships?.
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mmexis
Sophomore
@mmexis
Posts: 860
Likes: 732
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Post by mmexis on Sept 8, 2020 3:30:25 GMT
OK. Much Ado About Nothing. The world’s first fully formed rom-com. A brilliantly written and constructed play that was always popular but with Kenneth Branagh’s 1993 film, it got new life and is now performed by high schools, colleges, and community theaters everywhere. As You Like It. A kind of companion to MAAN except that “As You Like It” is virtually plotless but lively and witty with an adorable heroine. Rosalind is Shakespeare’s longest role for a female character. Longer even than Juliet and Cleopatra. Rosalind is so intelligent and active that she makes this play another popular one for amateur players. A Midsummer Night’s Dream. One of his most produced plays. A masterpiece of atmosphere and dreamlike qualities. I think I have seen more stagings of this play than any other. The War Of The Roses. You can explore this famous conflict in English history through 8 Shakespeare plays, actually 4 tetralogies. Oddly, the first 4 plays were produced very early in his writing career and covered the end of the rebellion. Later, as he was really starting to cook, the second tetralogy covering the first half of the history came out. These include the plays with Falstaff and Prince Hal. Julius Caesar. This is what I studied in high school back in the 1960s. The story is that JC was common in public schools at the time because it had almost an all male cast so no sex. Romeo and Juliet. The 1968 film directed by Franco Zeffirelli landed like a bombshell and turned on an entire generation of young people. There are still professors of literature at work who were first inspired by this film. After the ‘60s, R&J replaced Julius Caesar in schools even though it had loads of sex. The play itself is a corker with a hugely exciting action scene in the third act Turning Point. Always fun to watch a production. Hamlet. Of the four major tragedies that define William Shakespeare for a lot of people, Hamlet is the one I am most reluctant to sit down to. I sail along until the time Hamlet gets sent to England to be assassinated, then I usually move on. The last fourth of the drama really drops in interest for me. Othello. The true lead player, for me, is the villain, Iago. Like they say in the movies, the bad guys are always the most fun while the heroes are sometimes a drag. Well, Othello is not a drag but Iago is just so fast, so inventive, so great in evil improvisation that it is almost admirable. Further, I think we see in Iago, a kind of personality that is more modern than Early English: the sociopath who really has no personality. An empty man with only his own desires and ambitions but no one else matters. He is the serial killer of the future. Creepy and scary. King Lear. One of western literature’s true monuments yet it probably premiered one afternoon in an essentially outdoor theater to a mixed audience of tradespeople and nobility who were there for a bit of entertainment and socialization. Shakespeare had rewritten an older play that many of the theater goers were no doubt familiar with but the new work had some significant changes. For one, the old play ended happily. I sometimes wonder what their thoughts had been when they encountered the bleak, hopeless apocalypse of this new drama. Macbeth. Another common target of advanced English in high schools. This is the shortest of Shakespeare’s tragedies and it goes straight to the point and to the gut. The Macbeth Couple makes one of the most famous fictional marriages. They really come to life and seem real. When I teach Othello, I actually point out that it's all about Iago. I put Iago on the board with a circle around him and we "spiderweb" all the connections to him and their interconnections. And, of course, Iago makes it all clear in the first act "I am not what I am". fascinating to watch him at work.
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mmexis
Sophomore
@mmexis
Posts: 860
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Post by mmexis on Sept 8, 2020 3:35:51 GMT
Iago's motivations? Well, he didn't get what he wanted and thought he was going to get: the position that went to Michael Cassio. From Iago's point of view, the interloper, Othello, has taken everything: the hottest bachelorette, all the glories of war, the top position in the army, the ability to appoint who he wants into open jobs. And of course he's incensed at Cassio's appointment - after all, Othello had been beside him in battle. I always tell my students to think about, when this is true, Othello DIDN'T appoint Iago. What did O see?
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