Huxley
Sophomore
@huxley
Posts: 258
Likes: 86
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Post by Huxley on Nov 21, 2020 12:26:42 GMT
I don't have a Bible in front of me but God repented for ever making man. We are Gods big mistake.
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Post by Arlon10 on Nov 21, 2020 12:45:25 GMT
I don't have a Bible in front of me but God repented for ever making man. We are Gods big mistake. That's a fascinating question. I think it would be a more profitable use of my time trying to make as few of my own mistakes as possible.
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Post by moviemouth on Nov 21, 2020 14:07:53 GMT
No, because he is "perfect."
I think I can steel man some of this stuff.
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Post by Arlon10 on Nov 21, 2020 14:23:50 GMT
No, because he is "perfect." I think I can steel man some of this stuff. Perfect "by definition," sure.
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Post by moviemouth on Nov 21, 2020 14:26:50 GMT
No, because he is "perfect." I think I can steel man some of this stuff. Perfect "by definition," sure. It would be - God is incapable of mistakes and anything that is perceived by us as a mistake is all part of a perfect plan that we can't even begin to comprehend. That would be my apologetic if I was a theist and believed God to be truly perfect. All knowing, all good and incapable of mistakes or flaws.
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Post by OldSamVimes on Nov 21, 2020 14:46:36 GMT
I don't have a Bible in front of me but God repented for ever making man. We are Gods big mistake. Speak for yourself.
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Nov 21, 2020 17:16:13 GMT
1. God cannot do anything. He has limitations. Let's assume that means he is neither omniscient or omnipotent since that means nothing anyway.
2. He can only do the right thing since what he does is the standard.
Bring it.
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Post by FilmFlaneur on Nov 21, 2020 17:27:57 GMT
1. God cannot do anything. He has limitations. Let's assume that means he is neither omniscient or omnipotent since that means nothing anyway. Chapter and verse for this view? This suggests things are made right just because God does them - as opposed to the idea that He always does the things which are right in the first place. It might be observed that the former lets the deity off the hook when it orders mass murder for instance, and that He is the measure against which all genocide can be judged - but it makes for some awkward pleading. (We can also see God as the standard for rage, jealousy and anger etc in fact anything He sets His mind to.)
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Post by OldSamVimes on Nov 22, 2020 11:38:54 GMT
God would be able to take tiny parts of Himself and enclose them in biological organisms.
That way 'He' could experience making mistakes, mortality, loss, transient love and suffering.
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Post by Arlon10 on Nov 22, 2020 11:55:17 GMT
That's a fascinating question. I think it would be a more profitable use of my time trying to make as few of my own mistakes as possible. You must be a very poor man. I prefer to describe myself as practical.
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Post by Rodney Farber on Nov 22, 2020 14:25:14 GMT
Was the black death one of Jehovah's mistakes or was it intentional? How about Adolph Hitler? How about Covid? How about a bacon cheeseburger? Come to think of it, it violates two dietary laws, and it's in the bible. Why does Burger King serve them? As there are lots of contradictions in the Bible, (e.g. Ezekiel 4: 9, 12, & 15), was Yahweh just writing the Bible off the top of his head without thinking of what (S)He had previously written?
Epicurus: “Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?”
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Post by Arlon10 on Nov 22, 2020 15:21:54 GMT
Was the black death one of Jehovah's mistakes or was it intentional? How about Adolph Hitler? How about Covid? How about a bacon cheeseburger? Come to think of it, it violates two dietary laws, and it's in the bible. Why does Burger King serve them? As there are lots of contradictions in the Bible, (e.g. Ezekiel 4: 9, 12, & 15), was Yahweh just writing the Bible off the top of his head without thinking of what (S)He had previously written?
Epicurus: “Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?”
I'll do the best I can to avoid being insulting in addressing these issues. So I will just ask questions here. Who are you? What is your plan to address evil? How can you tell which is evil? Have you never heard of free will? Are you prepared to take that away? Who then gives the orders? You?
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Nov 22, 2020 17:25:43 GMT
1. God cannot do anything. He has limitations. Let's assume that means he is neither omniscient or omnipotent since that means nothing anyway. Chapter and verse for this view? This suggests things are made right just because God does them - as opposed to the idea that He always does the things which are right in the first place. It might be observed that the former lets the deity off the hook when it orders mass murder for instance, and that He is the measure against which all genocide can be judged - but it makes for some awkward pleading. (We can also see God as the standard for rage, jealousy and anger etc in fact anything He sets His mind to.) 1. To show chapter and verse for this view would require homework I don't necessary think you would accept in good faith. I propose it would be easier for me to dismiss evidence that God knows everything across all time and telepathy as well as him being able to lift a rock that is unliftable. Bring it. 2. Things are right just because God does them. If someone dies as a result of God's direction to kill them, it is the right thing. Christians are not under any obligation to kill anyone, of course, but per the Bible, God is going to order BILLIONS of people to be killed and that will be the correct course to take in order to protect the vastly smaller group of his worshippers who will always be more important to him. Keep in mind, this is quite a bit different than someone thinking they are doing God's will by killing others. That would have nothing to do with God so there would be no reason for God to accept the wrong action.
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Nov 22, 2020 17:28:47 GMT
Was the black death one of Jehovah's mistakes or was it intentional? How about Adolph Hitler? How about Covid? How about a bacon cheeseburger? Come to think of it, it violates two dietary laws, and it's in the bible. Why does Burger King serve them? As there are lots of contradictions in the Bible, (e.g. Ezekiel 4: 9, 12, & 15), was Yahweh just writing the Bible off the top of his head without thinking of what (S)He had previously written?
Epicurus: “Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?”
1. Epicurious probably didn't say that 2. Even if he did say it, it's flawed reasoning- something akin to an ant thinking a human should not step on it. No one actually cares what the ant thinks. 3. Disease and mean people are not a willful creation of God and more than likely is more the result of the bad habits and instruction of humans. This might be a decent argument if one thought free will didn;t exist, but let's assume there people having smarter conversations than that here.
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Post by FilmFlaneur on Nov 22, 2020 19:26:26 GMT
Chapter and verse for this view? This suggests things are made right just because God does them - as opposed to the idea that He always does the things which are right in the first place. It might be observed that the former lets the deity off the hook when it orders mass murder for instance, and that He is the measure against which all genocide can be judged - but it makes for some awkward pleading. (We can also see God as the standard for rage, jealousy and anger etc in fact anything He sets His mind to.) To show chapter and verse for this view would require homework I don't necessary think you would accept in good faith. I propose it would be easier for me to dismiss evidence that God knows everything across all time and telepathy as well as him being able to lift a rock that is unliftable. So no chapter and verse then, although at least you have the honesty to admit it would be hard to find. A fine justification for religious terrorists everywhere. That's OK then. The problem is that as to whether a deity has actually spoken to someone is ultimately not falsifiable. It is certainly not a defence likely to wash in court. It is such morally questionable claims such as yours above which, among other things, keep me an atheist and a humanist.
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Post by FilmFlaneur on Nov 22, 2020 19:30:28 GMT
Was the black death one of Jehovah's mistakes or was it intentional? How about Adolph Hitler? How about Covid? How about a bacon cheeseburger? Come to think of it, it violates two dietary laws, and it's in the bible. Why does Burger King serve them? As there are lots of contradictions in the Bible, (e.g. Ezekiel 4: 9, 12, & 15), was Yahweh just writing the Bible off the top of his head without thinking of what (S)He had previously written?
Epicurus: “Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?”
Disease [is] not a willful creation of God and more than likely is more the result of the bad habits and instruction of humans. God deliberately only made a creation that was, He thought, 'very good' and so not perfect. If everything is 'designed' then He necessarily designed childhood cancers as well as much of the cruelty and waste which is a hallmark of nature generally or a universe largely cold dark and 'empty'.. As far as I am aware things like Covid are not as the result of the bad habits or instructions of humans - unless you are one of those wishing to see the disease and suffering as a punishment from the deity. (I'd accept that the pandemic probably started from poor hygene at an animal market, but the virus still needed to exist in the first place) God, as always needs to be reminded of believers in such disputes, also specifically admits to making natural evil at least (or 'misfortune') in Isiah, and in not such a way as to suggest it was just for then, either. The notion that an allegedly caring and loving god, who apparently sacrificed his only begotten son for our benefit, thinks as much of us as an insect to be crushed underfoot, is something hard to find in scripture. Perhaps you might have more luck finding chapter and verse for this?
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Post by permutojoe on Nov 23, 2020 3:36:18 GMT
I don't have a Bible in front of me but God repented for ever making man. We are Gods big mistake. Someone posted a video on here not too long ago that refuted these types of problems. God doesn't need to make a square circle or be an imperfect perfect being because that's just a language sleight of hand and would not apply to God. A better question might be, does God have his/her own type of language and how does it work? #mindblown
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Post by drystyx on Nov 23, 2020 22:43:35 GMT
I'm going to really alienate fundamentalists with what is obvious, that the good God couldn't have created the physical laws and environment our souls experience. Indeed, he sent his son to save us from the "prison" that Satan has us in. The laws of Heaven are far superior to the laws we live by, whether man mad or laws of Physics. That's been proven, actually.
View God's omnipotence as everything in his Universe but this tiny box which we call our Universe. The tiny box devised by Satan as our prison. How we got here, who knows?
In effect, we're born in the flesh, which means we're sons and daughters of Satan, and Jesus saved us from that. Now, our souls (our meter readers, not the meters, but the readers of the meters), are likely created by the good God, but maybe not. In either event, somehow, the fall from grace put us in this inferior world. The rules made by Satan to leave were rigged and impossible for man to fulfill, but not impossible to the good God.
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Post by onethreetwo on Nov 23, 2020 22:53:57 GMT
I don't have a Bible in front of me but God repented for ever making man. We are Gods big mistake. You're talking about Genesis 6. He did repent for ever making man, this is true. But regretting making a decision isn't necessarily admitting that decision was a mistake. I tend to side with you on this, though. I think God felt like it was a mistake.
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Post by Arlon10 on Nov 24, 2020 10:31:00 GMT
You're talking about Genesis 6. He did repent for ever making man, this is true. But regretting making a decision isn't necessarily admitting that decision was a mistake. I tend to side with you on this, though. I think God felt like it was a mistake. How can you think this God thing felt like it made a mistake, when you would have to prove this God thing, beyond your own thinking to even make this claim reasonable and rationale? What's missing here is a clear definition of "mistake." I think that most people take "omnipotent" to mean the god can "do" anything. It can then call whatever that is a "mistake" or not a "mistake," insofar as it is considered the arbiter of the definition of a mistake. One very troublesome man on this board likes to repeat that the god of the Bible "never changes." I am certain that is supposed to mean that a limitless entity has placed limits on itself since nothing else could. I am also certain that does not mean the entity has surrendered all free will entirely. It can plan a day one way in the morning and select another plan in the afternoon within the limitations it has set in advance.
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