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Post by mikef6 on Dec 22, 2020 22:45:46 GMT
Last month’s national election results saw more openly non-religious people elected to state and federal office than ever before. All of this are Democrats, which isn’t surprising given that the current incarnation of the Republican Party opposes science, bodily autonomy, LGBTQ rights, education, logic, reason, and reality.
While all of that sounds promising, it only really matters if that leads to passing sensible legislation. What qualifies as “sensible” is obviously subjective, but there are a number of general positions most Secular Americans would support. Evidence in this election of a new kind of “values voters.”
Many religious people hold some firm beliefs and are motivated to vote those beliefs. Secular Americans also maintain their own strongly held values. My research suggests they vote on these values with just as much motivation as the religious. These “values voters” cared about a referendum promoting sex education, which passed in the state of Washington, an increasingly non-religious state. These “values voters” decriminalized drugs in Oregon, a position that Secular Americans overwhelmingly support. These “values voters” funded science programs in Colorado and stem cell research in California. These voters wouldn’t all identify as atheists, or even non-religious. But their values are a far cry from the irrational ones espoused by religious conservatives… because, in the case of the non-religious, the results actually make people’s lives better.
For years now, we have seen a rise in the percent of non-religious Americans, but there was a question of when that would translate to political power. Perhaps we now getting our first real glimpses of it. We need to keep pushing harder.
Thanks to “The Friendly Atheist” Facebook group
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Post by lowtacks86 on Dec 23, 2020 0:02:09 GMT
I've often wondered what the GOP is gonna do when pandering to old evangelical voters becomes less and less political viable. Are they gonna change their platforms and become a more centrist/classical liberal party? Or are they just gonna say fuck it and do all the voter suppression they can (voter id laws, shutting down voting booths in black neighborhoods, jerrymandering) and let their voter base keep getting older and older?
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Post by lowtacks86 on Dec 23, 2020 0:18:29 GMT
I've often wondered what the GOP is gonna do when pandering to old evangelical voters becomes less and less political viable. Are they gonna change their platforms and become a more centrist/classical liberal party? Or are they just gonna say fuck it and do all the voter suppression they can (voter id laws, shutting down voting booths in black neighborhoods, jerrymandering) and let their voter base keep getting older and older? Voter suppression has been a Republican strategy for quite awhile as the Republican voter base keeps shrinking. Oh I'm well aware of that (they've been doing that at least since Reagan). I'm just wondering how long can they keep it up for without changing their platforms.
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Post by politicidal on Dec 23, 2020 17:01:09 GMT
Oh I'm well aware of that (they've been doing that at least since Reagan). I'm just wondering how long can they keep it up for without changing their platforms. They are not called conservatives for nothing. And conservatives are resistant to any change that works against current power, economic, and social structures where the White Christian Republicans are not most of the people in power. They'll stick to their guns (no pun intended) for as long as possible.
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Post by SciFive on Dec 27, 2020 0:49:22 GMT
If you’re determined to divide politics between non-religious and religious, keep in mind:
Hispanics are Catholics (especially the ones immigrating from Catholic countries).
Arabs, Pakistanis, etc, tend to be Muslims.
Immigrants from Nigeria are usually Christians.
African Americans are often devout Christians.
California had a vote to legalize gay marriage before the US Supreme Court settled it.
This vote lost in California due to Hispanic and black voters.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 27, 2020 1:23:35 GMT
The Republicans did it to themselves; they voted in Trump. Trump has made such an ass of himself and alienated all but the dumbest people.
I think that the Westboro Baptist Church is one one of biggest LGBTQ supporters; their anti gay campaigning has made LGBTQ more sympathetic as a result.
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Post by SciFive on Dec 27, 2020 1:33:35 GMT
Hispanics are Catholics, not non-religious.
Is this sinking in anywhere?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 27, 2020 1:37:56 GMT
Hispanics are Catholics, not non-religious. Is this sinking in anywhere? Didn't Trump call some of them (Mexicans) rapists? He's such a racist...
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Post by SciFive on Dec 27, 2020 1:39:46 GMT
Hispanics are Catholics, not non-religious. Is this sinking in anywhere? How do non-religious people intend to keep a larger and larger Catholic population interested in you?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 27, 2020 1:43:26 GMT
How do non-religious people intend to keep a larger and larger Catholic population interested in you? By appealing to something more than religion; people have other things going on in their lives (jobs, education etc). If you are the first to find out what it is and offer it to them, you have their interest.
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Post by SciFive on Dec 27, 2020 1:55:33 GMT
How do non-religious people intend to keep a larger and larger Catholic population interested in you? By appealing to something more than religion; people have other things going on in their lives (jobs, education etc). If you are the first to find out what it is and offer it to them, you have their interest. The non-religious will have to stop claiming that they are superior to religious people.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 27, 2020 2:10:02 GMT
By appealing to something more than religion; people have other things going on in their lives (jobs, education etc). If you are the first to find out what it is and offer it to them, you have their interest. The non-religious will have to stop claiming that they are superior to religious people. Who says they do this?
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Post by SciFive on Dec 27, 2020 6:19:09 GMT
The non-religious will have to stop claiming that they are superior to religious people. Who says they do this? Read the OP.
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Post by mikef6 on Dec 27, 2020 15:57:52 GMT
What my O.P. said was that the difference between religious and non-religious values was that “the results actually make people’s lives better.” I also pointed out that those who hold these values are not even necessarily non-religious. The non-religious do not have to stop claiming they (i.e. what they believe in) are superior to conservatives. It is conservatives who should stop claiming that opposition and exposing right-wing values (religious and secular) for what they are and what they do to people’s lives is persecution.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 27, 2020 16:06:05 GMT
You know there's more to life than religion and more than just religion that factors in to what people vote for in a candidate.
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Post by SciFive on Dec 27, 2020 16:15:02 GMT
What my O.P. said was that the difference between religious and non-religious values was that “the results actually make people’s lives better.” I also pointed out that those who hold these values are not even necessarily non-religious. The non-religious do not have to stop claiming they (i.e. what they believe in) are superior to conservatives. It is conservatives who should stop claiming that opposition and exposing right-wing values (religious and secular) for what they are and what they do to people’s lives is persecution. If you plan to keep attacking religion, don’t expect tens of millions of Hispanic Catholics to love you for it.
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Post by mikef6 on Dec 27, 2020 16:30:15 GMT
What my O.P. said was that the difference between religious and non-religious values was that “the results actually make people’s lives better.” I also pointed out that those who hold these values are not even necessarily non-religious. The non-religious do not have to stop claiming they (i.e. what they believe in) are superior to conservatives. It is conservatives who should stop claiming that opposition and exposing right-wing values (religious and secular) for what they are and what they do to people’s lives is persecution. If you plan to keep attacking religion, don’t expect tens of millions of Hispanic Catholics to love you for it. I'll try to work through it. Actually, I am a church member myself although it is My Lovely Wife who is active. It is an open and welcoming congregation and national denomination. I grew up Southern Baptist but would now not step through the doors of one of their churches or into an evangelical MEGA-MAGA Church. I even once thought of the clergy as a profession. After decades have passed since then I can still call myself "christian" but as an ethical and moral guide without the supernatural. It is conservatism both in and out of church that makes a person a danger to others.
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Post by SciFive on Dec 27, 2020 17:27:11 GMT
If you plan to keep attacking religion, don’t expect tens of millions of Hispanic Catholics to love you for it. I'll try to work through it. Actually, I am a church member myself although it is My Lovely Wife who is active. It is an open and welcoming congregation and national denomination. I grew up Southern Baptist but would now not step through the doors of one of their churches or into an evangelical MEGA-MAGA Church. I even once thought of the clergy as a profession. After decades have passed since then I can still call myself "christian" but as an ethical and moral guide without the supernatural. It is conservatism both in and out of church that makes a person a danger to others. Liberals are the dangers. “EVERYBODY!!! LOCK DOWN AT HOME!!” “We are releasing murderers and child molesters from prison because the virus is too dangerous there! If you open your business or have too many people at your house, we will arrest you and put you in prison!” “Things are going to get much worse for everyone. Let’s give Americans $600 and give Venezuela $33 BILLION to promote democracy while they’re still using Dominion voting machines!!” (I don’t want them giving Israel money right now either.)
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Post by senan90 on Dec 27, 2020 20:10:59 GMT
What my O.P. said was that the difference between religious and non-religious values was that “the results actually make people’s lives better.” I also pointed out that those who hold these values are not even necessarily non-religious. The non-religious do not have to stop claiming they (i.e. what they believe in) are superior to conservatives. It is conservatives who should stop claiming that opposition and exposing right-wing values (religious and secular) for what they are and what they do to people’s lives is persecution. If you plan to keep attacking religion, don’t expect tens of millions of Hispanic Catholics to love you for it. The people of Catholic Ireland disagree with you. They voted in landslide to legalise abortion and gay marriage despite the criticism of religious positions on those issues. No one is attacking religion, people and attitudes change.
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Post by SciFive on Dec 27, 2020 20:14:34 GMT
If you plan to keep attacking religion, don’t expect tens of millions of Hispanic Catholics to love you for it. The people of Catholic Ireland disagree with you. They voted in landslide to legalise abortion and gay marriage despite the criticism of religious positions on those issues. No one is attacking religion, people and attitudes change. The Irish aren’t Hispanic Catholics. They also aren’t immigrating to the US in large numbers.
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