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Post by FilmFlaneur on Dec 28, 2020 13:37:47 GMT
FilmFlaneur The proselytizing Christians are trying to save souls from hell when they proselytize. They aren’t in all this to win a debate with the world’s pagans or atheists. Never the less if they wish to save souls they still need to make a convincing case, something which you have just told us is apparently unnecessary. When I ever suggest they are, then please mention this again. And I trust atheists will be given the same privilege when considering what it is they have been told. Then you are assuredly wrong. In life one does not assume all things exist until disproven. Not every belief is equally reasonable. There is no reason to change the default position because credulity is more psychologically attractive to a lot of people. Actually what you are seeing here is freedom of thought in action, and it appears scepticism makes you uncomfortable and feel threatened for some reason. Rather than claiming to speak for 'billions and billions' it be more open and honest to offer opinions on your own behalf.
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Dec 28, 2020 13:40:09 GMT
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Post by SciFive on Dec 28, 2020 13:40:09 GMT
When you attack believers for their beliefs, the burden of proof is on you. FlimFlam tries to make arguments that “God” is inferior as a mind-fck attack on believers. His obsession with attacking believers puts the burden of proof on him for deciding that believers deserve to be the targets of his attacks for their thoughts. As I said on the other thread where we talked, religion is not "attacked" because of thought but because of actions. Religious beliefs are a danger to ones self and to others. This sounds like incitement against people for merely believing in a higher power. Thoughts are under attack. Sounds like Communism. |
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Dec 28, 2020 13:46:40 GMT
Post by FilmFlaneur on Dec 28, 2020 13:46:40 GMT
As I said on the other thread where we talked, religion is not "attacked" because of thought but because of actions. Religious beliefs are a danger to ones self and to others. This sounds like incitement against people for merely believing in a higher power. Thoughts are under attack. Sounds like Communism. You still haven't told us why, in a free society, religious beliefs ought not to be criticised. Here's a clue: not feeling offended is not a human right.
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Dec 28, 2020 13:55:02 GMT
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Post by SciFive on Dec 28, 2020 13:55:02 GMT
This sounds like incitement against people for merely believing in a higher power. Thoughts are under attack. Sounds like Communism. You still haven't told us why, in a free society, religious beliefs ought not to be criticised. Here's a clue: not feeling offended is not a human right. Anti-religion religion beliefs are fair game, too. People can pound on you guys as much as they want. |
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Dec 28, 2020 13:55:46 GMT
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Post by OpiateOfTheMasses on Dec 28, 2020 13:55:46 GMT
But they are claiming that God exists. They aren't saying " we won't have gay marriage in our little community because it doesn't fit in with our beliefs" are they? They're saying that "God doesn't agree with gay marriage and therefore none of you should be allowed to do it!". So they use God's absolute authority to try to impose their beliefs on others. At this point it's reasonable for others to ask for a little back up to their claims isn't it? ”These are our beliefs” is not a demand for others to believe. Stating as fact that there is no God is a demand for belief. No one can prove that God doesn’t exist. Trying to get the law changed so that everyone has to live according to your beliefs is forcing your beliefs on others isn't it? What would you call that? If it's just about personal belief, then why can't people just believe what they want to believe and live that way personally without trying to enforce their beliefs on everyone else? |
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Dec 28, 2020 13:58:56 GMT
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Post by SciFive on Dec 28, 2020 13:58:56 GMT
”These are our beliefs” is not a demand for others to believe. Stating as fact that there is no God is a demand for belief. No one can prove that God doesn’t exist. Trying to get the law changed so that everyone has to live according to your beliefs is forcing your beliefs on others isn't it? What would you call that? If it's just about personal belief, then why can't people just believe what they want to believe and live that way personally without trying to enforce their beliefs on everyone else? You mean laws like forcing bakeries to design cakes that go against their personal beliefs? |
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Dec 28, 2020 13:59:40 GMT
Post by FilmFlaneur on Dec 28, 2020 13:59:40 GMT
You still haven't told us why, in a free society, religious beliefs ought not to be criticised. Here's a clue: not feeling offended is not a human right. Anti-religion religion beliefs are fair game, too. People can pound on you guys as much as they want. Indeed. And I agreed with you last time you said this, too. But that does not answer my question - or perhaps you are just wanting to have your religious cake and eat it. In our free society and an ideas market place, why should one complain so much when others exercise their freedom in a way one just doesn't like?
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Dec 28, 2020 14:02:55 GMT
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Post by SciFive on Dec 28, 2020 14:02:55 GMT
Anti-religion religion beliefs are fair game, too. People can pound on you guys as much as they want. Indeed. And I agreed with you last time you said this, too. But that does not answer my question or perhaps you just wanting to have your religious cake and eat it. In our free society and an ideas market place, why should one complain so much when others exercise their freedom in a way one just doesn't like? My concern is the attacks on thoughts. These are part of the basis for Communism. |
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Dec 28, 2020 14:21:26 GMT
Post by FilmFlaneur on Dec 28, 2020 14:21:26 GMT
Indeed. And I agreed with you last time you said this, too. But that does not answer my question or perhaps you just wanting to have your religious cake and eat it. In our free society and an ideas market place, why should one complain so much when others exercise their freedom in a way one just doesn't like? My concern is the attacks on thoughts. These are part of the basis for Communism. No one here has refused to your right to think or to express thoughts. The difference between a free society and a dictatorship is that in the latter thoughts are suppressed or persecuted while in a free one thoughts and speech can be subject to scrutiny no matter how dearly held. Presumably you must know in which you live since you have already insisted "Anti-religion religion beliefs are fair game, too." So to confuse the two here now is disingenuous.
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Dec 28, 2020 15:11:46 GMT
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Post by OpiateOfTheMasses on Dec 28, 2020 15:11:46 GMT
Trying to get the law changed so that everyone has to live according to your beliefs is forcing your beliefs on others isn't it? What would you call that? If it's just about personal belief, then why can't people just believe what they want to believe and live that way personally without trying to enforce their beliefs on everyone else? You mean laws like forcing bakeries to design cakes that go against their personal beliefs? If you answer my point directly I'll answer yours. But we both know you won't. |
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Dec 28, 2020 16:45:24 GMT
Post by Isapop on Dec 28, 2020 16:45:24 GMT
Trying to get the law changed so that everyone has to live according to your beliefs is forcing your beliefs on others isn't it? What would you call that? If it's just about personal belief, then why can't people just believe what they want to believe and live that way personally without trying to enforce their beliefs on everyone else? You mean laws like forcing bakeries to design cakes that go against their personal beliefs? Just to set the record straight, the lawsuits aren't to force bakeries to " design cakes that go against their personal beliefs". They are to force bakeries to sell the same cake to a same sex couple that they would sell to an opposite sex couple.
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Dec 28, 2020 16:50:39 GMT
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Post by SciFive on Dec 28, 2020 16:50:39 GMT
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Dec 28, 2020 16:54:08 GMT
Post by lowtacks86 on Dec 28, 2020 16:54:08 GMT
Trying to get the law changed so that everyone has to live according to your beliefs is forcing your beliefs on others isn't it? What would you call that? If it's just about personal belief, then why can't people just believe what they want to believe and live that way personally without trying to enforce their beliefs on everyone else? You mean laws like forcing bakeries to design cakes that go against their personal beliefs? Do you believe Christian bakers should be allowed to refuse cakes for jewish couples as well? Do you believe a Muslim working at the DMV should be allowed to turn down driver's licenses for women? Also why should we uphold religious beliefs more so than other beliefs? There's people that have deeply held views on white supremacy, should we also cow tow to them and allow them to refuse services to nonwhites?
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Dec 28, 2020 16:58:28 GMT
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Post by SciFive on Dec 28, 2020 16:58:28 GMT
lowtacks86I’m totally convinced you’re not worthy. No need to keep hammering the point.
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Dec 28, 2020 16:59:15 GMT
Post by lowtacks86 on Dec 28, 2020 16:59:15 GMT
lowtacks86 I’m totally convinced you’re not worthy. No need to keep hammering the point. So no actual argument. Gotcha. You know this doesn't make you look good at all, right?
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Dec 28, 2020 17:03:12 GMT
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Post by SciFive on Dec 28, 2020 17:03:12 GMT
lowtacks86Ok, keep hammering that you aren’t worthy.
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Dec 28, 2020 17:05:13 GMT
Post by lowtacks86 on Dec 28, 2020 17:05:13 GMT
lowtacks86 Ok, keep hammering that you aren’t worthy. Translation: I can't defend my dogshit arguments, so I'm just gonna dodge and hurl petty insults instead.
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Dec 28, 2020 17:12:01 GMT
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Post by SciFive on Dec 28, 2020 17:12:01 GMT
lowtacks86Translation from Low: “I’m having a hissy fit because she won’t talk to me! All I do is rewrite her posts every time she comes near me! What the hell is wrong with that!?!?!?! It’s the only way I know how to communicate!!”
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Dec 28, 2020 17:12:55 GMT
Post by Isapop on Dec 28, 2020 17:12:55 GMT
Is it too much for you to read beyond a headline? "Court rules in favor of Masterpiece Cakeshop, but doesn’t address principle of whether a business can refuse to serve gay people." The Court didn't like the way Colorado reached their decision. But that's ultimately beside my point, which was to correct your mischaracterization of the question at issue.
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Dec 28, 2020 17:14:26 GMT
Post by lowtacks86 on Dec 28, 2020 17:14:26 GMT
lowtacks86 Translation from Low: “I’m having a hissy fit because she won’t talk to me! All I do is rewrite her posts every time she comes near me! What the hell is wrong with that!?!?!?! It’s the only way I know how to communicate!!” You're still not making any arguments. Evasion noted.
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