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Post by CrepedCrusader on Mar 28, 2021 2:15:28 GMT
"They eat their own" as the saying goes. One need only look to Georgia, where Republicans are in fear of keeping their jobs because they refunded to steal an election, to see that.
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Post by JudgeJuryDredd on Mar 28, 2021 2:36:41 GMT
"They eat their own" as the saying goes. One need only look to Georgia, where Republicans are in fear of keeping their jobs because they refunded to steal an election, to see that. And? This isn't really about political affiliations, you do not need be Y or Z to qualify as an SJW who obsesses over every little thing and blow it out of proportion.
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Post by mikef6 on Mar 28, 2021 2:40:03 GMT
Quick question: did she actually get "cancelled" as in dropped from Twitter or did she just receive a lot of negative replies? If the latter then nobody has any complaints. If Ellis has the free speech to say whatever she said in her tweet then people who disagree, even extremely disagree, have the same freedoms. Anyone may certainly give her their support but not to try to silence or vilify contrary opinions.
On the other hand, if the Twitter platform did delete her, then I would strongly object to their administration. If not, then there is no controversy. Her opponents are just as legitimate as she is.
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Post by mikef6 on Mar 28, 2021 2:44:23 GMT
One need only look to Georgia, where Republicans are in fear of keeping their jobs because they refunded to steal an election, to see that. And? This isn't really about political affiliations, you do not need be Y or Z to qualify as an SJW who obsesses over every little thing and blow it out of proportion. It seems that it is about political affiliations as you have indicated yourself. "SJW" is a right-wing formulation designed to mock the movement for equal civil rights. It is in the same category as "political correctness" or "woke." Your use of that particular conservative code shows exactly where you stand.
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Post by moviebuffbrad on Mar 28, 2021 2:45:30 GMT
Interesting that you're still holding up my noticing of very obvious and reoccurring themes in a director's films that are backed by his own statements to defend someone who accused that same director of hating his mother based on little if anything. No, I would not care to dig through it for you. I wasn’t strictly talking about your stance that Zack Snyder is a bigot, but that is certainly part of it. In general, I just get the vibe that you’re someone who possibly likes to rub how smart and witty you are in other people’s faces. Again, I don’t know you personally, so I could be wrong on this. And yeah, Lindsay Ellis’ comment about Zack Snyder hating his mother was pretty bad of her, and she deserved to be called out for that, but this thing about her endorsing harassment against D&D is something I’ve never heard before. I certainly don’t recall her saying that when I watched her videos on GoT, but maybe my memory is just fuzzy. In any case, you made the claim, so the burden of proof is on you. Assuming that were true, I don't know how being a witty smartypants makes me a liar. Unless you're assuming nefarious motives based solely on your personal dislike of me, which is ironically what you accuse me of doing with Snyder (except, again, those interpretations are corroborated). It's at the end. Last 5 minutes or so. Her handwaving their harassment is certainly a talking point for people who actually liked the last season, which is admittedly not many.
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Post by moviebuffbrad on Mar 28, 2021 2:49:44 GMT
Quick question: did she actually get "cancelled" as in dropped from Twitter or did she just receive a lot of negative replies? If the latter then nobody has any complaints. If Ellis has the free speech to say whatever she said in her tweet then people who disagree, even extremely disagree, have the same freedoms. Anyone may certainly give her their support but not to try to silence or vilify contrary opinions. On the other hand, if the Twitter platform did delete her, then I would strongly object to their administration. If not, then there is no controversy. Her opponents are just as legitimate as she is. She got negative replies and then self-deleted.
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Post by thisguy4000 on Mar 28, 2021 2:56:15 GMT
I wasn’t strictly talking about your stance that Zack Snyder is a bigot, but that is certainly part of it. In general, I just get the vibe that you’re someone who possibly likes to rub how smart and witty you are in other people’s faces. Again, I don’t know you personally, so I could be wrong on this. And yeah, Lindsay Ellis’ comment about Zack Snyder hating his mother was pretty bad of her, and she deserved to be called out for that, but this thing about her endorsing harassment against D&D is something I’ve never heard before. I certainly don’t recall her saying that when I watched her videos on GoT, but maybe my memory is just fuzzy. In any case, you made the claim, so the burden of proof is on you. Assuming that were true, I don't know how being a witty smartypants makes me a liar. Unless you're assuming nefarious motives based solely on your personal dislike of me, which is ironically what you accuse me of doing with Snyder (except, again, those interpretations are corroborated). It's at the end. Last 5 minutes or so. Her handwaving their harassment is certainly a talking point for people who actually liked the last season, which is admittedly not many. I don’t have any real personal feelings on you. I just think you make all kinds of weird leaps when it comes to talking about films. You also for some reason assumed I said that 2001 is boring based on my thread, even though I never referred to it as such. Anyway, I just rewatched the end of her GoT video, and she doesn’t mention anything about harassment or death threats against D&D. She does say that she thinks the backlash against them is well deserved, but she mentions nothing about harassment. In fact, it’s very bizarre that you would watch that and assume that she’s saying that people should harass and send threats to the guys. Do you think backlash and harassment are the same thing? Lindsay Ellis may not be especially likable, but she’d have to be pretty stupid to encourage that kind of behavior.
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Post by moviebuffbrad on Mar 28, 2021 3:08:05 GMT
Assuming that were true, I don't know how being a witty smartypants makes me a liar. Unless you're assuming nefarious motives based solely on your personal dislike of me, which is ironically what you accuse me of doing with Snyder (except, again, those interpretations are corroborated). It's at the end. Last 5 minutes or so. Her handwaving their harassment is certainly a talking point for people who actually liked the last season, which is admittedly not many. I don’t have any real personal feelings on you. I just think you make all kinds of weird leaps when it comes to talking about films. You also for some reason assumed I said that 2001 is boring based on my thread, even though I never referred to it as such. Anyway, I just rewatched the end of her GoT video, and she doesn’t mention anything about harassment or death threats against D&D. She does say that she thinks the backlash against them is well deserved, but she mentions nothing about harassment. In fact, it’s very bizarre that you would watch that and assume that she’s saying that people should harass and send threats to the guys. Do you think backlash and harassment are the same thing? Lindsay Ellis may not be especially likable, but she’d have to be pretty stupid to encourage that kind of behavior. All kinds of weird leaps: a couple of things I've said about one guy's films. We cleared up you thinking 2001 was boring in a simple conversation. The weird leap in that case being you making a thread asking people if they thought it was boring. *shrug* What type of backlash do you think she's talking about when she directly compares it to Star Wars and Kelly Marie Tran?
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Post by thisguy4000 on Mar 28, 2021 3:15:48 GMT
I don’t have any real personal feelings on you. I just think you make all kinds of weird leaps when it comes to talking about films. You also for some reason assumed I said that 2001 is boring based on my thread, even though I never referred to it as such. Anyway, I just rewatched the end of her GoT video, and she doesn’t mention anything about harassment or death threats against D&D. She does say that she thinks the backlash against them is well deserved, but she mentions nothing about harassment. In fact, it’s very bizarre that you would watch that and assume that she’s saying that people should harass and send threats to the guys. Do you think backlash and harassment are the same thing? Lindsay Ellis may not be especially likable, but she’d have to be pretty stupid to encourage that kind of behavior. All kinds of weird leaps: a couple of things I've said about one guy's films. We cleared up you thinking 2001 was boring in a simple conversation. The weird leap in that case being you making a thread asking people if they thought it was boring. *shrug* What type of backlash do you think she's talking about when she directly compares it to Star Wars and Kelly Marie Tran? The backlash against Kelly Marie Tran involved her leaving social media. Did D&D ever even have social media? She said that it’s good how people weren’t blaming the actors for the way GoT turned out, and she also brought up a crowd funding campaign for Emilia Clarke. Not once does she say that people should go after D&D personally. It’s actually a weird leap that you would assume that’s what she was implying, especially when I’ve never seen anyone besides you who thinks that.
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Post by TutuAnimationPrincess on Mar 28, 2021 3:31:44 GMT
Lindsay Ellis? I always saw her as a hack who loves to pretend she’s the smartest person in the room. She is certainly capable of making interesting videos, but as a whole, she’s not as intelligent or even entertaining as she thinks she is. I’m actually kind of surprised a topic about her would take off like this.
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Post by moviebuffbrad on Mar 28, 2021 3:38:09 GMT
All kinds of weird leaps: a couple of things I've said about one guy's films. We cleared up you thinking 2001 was boring in a simple conversation. The weird leap in that case being you making a thread asking people if they thought it was boring. *shrug* What type of backlash do you think she's talking about when she directly compares it to Star Wars and Kelly Marie Tran? The backlash against Kelly Marie Tran involved her leaving social media. Did D&D ever even have social media? She said that it’s good how people weren’t blaming the actors for the way GoT turned out, and she also brought up a crowd funding campaign for Emilia Clarke. Not once does she say that people should go after D&D personally. It’s actually a weird leap that you would assume that’s what she was implying, especially when I’ve never seen anyone besides you who thinks that. Since when does it matter how many people agree with me? Snyder being an Ayn Rand fan is a full-on meme now, and you think that's a "weird leap" too. Do I have to start digging up people criticizing Lindsay for it or is this a red-herring? If there wasn't anything wrong with comparing the SW and GoT "backlashes" and saying the latter is deserved, you wouldn't feel the need to differentiate the situations in your first two sentences. But for the backlash to reach death threat level, and her to come in and say the backlash is "deserved" without any clarity except "at least they're not targeting the actors", is poor wording at best.
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Post by thisguy4000 on Mar 28, 2021 3:45:05 GMT
The backlash against Kelly Marie Tran involved her leaving social media. Did D&D ever even have social media? She said that it’s good how people weren’t blaming the actors for the way GoT turned out, and she also brought up a crowd funding campaign for Emilia Clarke. Not once does she say that people should go after D&D personally. It’s actually a weird leap that you would assume that’s what she was implying, especially when I’ve never seen anyone besides you who thinks that. Since when does it matter how many people agree with me? Snyder being an Ayn Rand fan is a full-on meme now, and you think that's a "weird leap" too. Do I have to start digging up people criticizing Lindsay for it or is this a red-herring? If there wasn't anything wrong with comparing the SW and GoT "backlashes" and saying the latter is deserved, you wouldn't feel the need to differentiate the situations in your first two sentences. But for the backlash to reach death threat level, and her to come in and say the backlash is "deserved" without any clarity except "at least they're not targeting the actors", is poor wording at best. Saying that Snyder likes Ayn Rand’s work isn’t a “weird leap,” but saying that he hates gay people kind of is. And what are you even talking about with the “differentiation” argument? The reason I apparently had to clarify that is because you were the one who claimed she was doing something that she clearly wasn’t doing. And again, she never brought up anything about death threats. If she mentioned that, then you would have a point, but she doesn’t. All she said is that they deserve the blame for how GoT turned out.
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Post by moviebuffbrad on Mar 28, 2021 4:07:43 GMT
Since when does it matter how many people agree with me? Snyder being an Ayn Rand fan is a full-on meme now, and you think that's a "weird leap" too. Do I have to start digging up people criticizing Lindsay for it or is this a red-herring? If there wasn't anything wrong with comparing the SW and GoT "backlashes" and saying the latter is deserved, you wouldn't feel the need to differentiate the situations in your first two sentences. But for the backlash to reach death threat level, and her to come in and say the backlash is "deserved" without any clarity except "at least they're not targeting the actors", is poor wording at best. Saying that Snyder likes Ayn Rand’s work isn’t a “weird leap,” but saying that he hates gay people kind of is. And what are you even talking about with the “differentiation” argument? The reason I apparently had to clarify that is because you were the one who claimed she was doing something that she clearly wasn’t doing. And again, she never brought up anything about death threats. If she mentioned that, then you would have a point, but she doesn’t. All she said is that they deserve the blame for how GoT turned out. All the gay guys in his movies are either stereotypically effeminate villains, or high heel wearing buffoons who torture straight people with their coming out stories until they accidentally slice their friend's arm off. What would you call that? Someone deserving mere backlash for making a bad product is a completely self-explanatory and meaningless statement, so why make it? Especially while directly comparing it to the treatment of Kelly Marie Tran (HER comparison, not mine) and at a time it had reached death threats?
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Post by thisguy4000 on Mar 28, 2021 4:21:32 GMT
Saying that Snyder likes Ayn Rand’s work isn’t a “weird leap,” but saying that he hates gay people kind of is. And what are you even talking about with the “differentiation” argument? The reason I apparently had to clarify that is because you were the one who claimed she was doing something that she clearly wasn’t doing. And again, she never brought up anything about death threats. If she mentioned that, then you would have a point, but she doesn’t. All she said is that they deserve the blame for how GoT turned out. All the gay guys in his movies are either stereotypically effeminate villains, or high heel wearing buffoons who torture straight people with their coming out stories until they accidentally slice their friend's arm off. What would you call that? Someone deserving backlash for making a bad product is a completely self-explanatory and meaningless statement, so why make it? Especially while directly comparing it to the treatment of Kelly Marie Tran (HER comparison, not mine)? 1. Having villains of a certain sexuality or ethnic group is not an indication that you hate those people 2. The gay character in DotD isn’t even portrayed as a bad guy, and there are plenty of morally questionable characters in that movie. The beginning also has the Christian fundamentalist who rants about how homosexuality caused the outbreak, and he’s clearly portrayed as a nut. You said she was endorsing death threats. She mentions no such thing. And the fact that D&D don’t have social media obviously means that them being harassed on social media like what happened with Tran was never a problem. You’re reaching super hard to try and support your claim. Just an FYI, if D&D had received death threats, it doesn’t seem like it was ever a major news story, so there’s no reason to assume Ellis was even aware of such a thing.
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Post by moviebuffbrad on Mar 28, 2021 6:14:06 GMT
All the gay guys in his movies are either stereotypically effeminate villains, or high heel wearing buffoons who torture straight people with their coming out stories until they accidentally slice their friend's arm off. What would you call that? Someone deserving backlash for making a bad product is a completely self-explanatory and meaningless statement, so why make it? Especially while directly comparing it to the treatment of Kelly Marie Tran (HER comparison, not mine)? 1. Having villains of a certain sexuality or ethnic group is not an indication that you hate those people 2. The gay character in DotD isn’t even portrayed as a bad guy, and there are plenty of morally questionable characters in that movie. The beginning also has the Christian fundamentalist who rants about how homosexuality caused the outbreak, and he’s clearly portrayed as a nut. You said she was endorsing death threats. She mentions no such thing. And the fact that D&D don’t have social media obviously means that them being harassed on social media like what happened with Tran was never a problem. You’re reaching super hard to try and support your claim. Just an FYI, if D&D had received death threats, it doesn’t seem like it was ever a major news story, so there’s no reason to assume Ellis was even aware of such a thing. I don't think it's automatically hateful to portray gay male characters as villains or buffoons, but it is questionable to portray ALL gay male characters as villains or buffoons. This being across multiple different movies, with stereotypes about how effeminate and predatory they are, while the heroes mock them for their gayness. And like with Ayn Rand, I'm not the first person to point it out. I asked you why someone would feel compelled to endorse backlash if it's just mere criticism (everyone knows criticism is deserving if something is bad), while also comparing it to the SW backlash (which indicates some level of knowledge of how extreme the backlash had gotten - a breadtuber doesn't bring up SW backlash just to say "some people didn't care for it")? I literally just said Tran was Lindsay's comparison and not mine. And her distinction wasn't even that D&D weren't chased off twitter, it's that they're the creators and thus more deserving than just an actress. Why post an FYI that Lindsay may not have known about the death threats if making a blanket statement that the backlash is deserving can in no way be interpreted as including ALL the backlash? Either I'm a weird-leaping liar and Lindsay didn't need to clarify what she said, or Lindsay made a gaffe. Pick one.
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Post by thisguy4000 on Mar 28, 2021 8:52:17 GMT
1. Having villains of a certain sexuality or ethnic group is not an indication that you hate those people 2. The gay character in DotD isn’t even portrayed as a bad guy, and there are plenty of morally questionable characters in that movie. The beginning also has the Christian fundamentalist who rants about how homosexuality caused the outbreak, and he’s clearly portrayed as a nut. You said she was endorsing death threats. She mentions no such thing. And the fact that D&D don’t have social media obviously means that them being harassed on social media like what happened with Tran was never a problem. You’re reaching super hard to try and support your claim. Just an FYI, if D&D had received death threats, it doesn’t seem like it was ever a major news story, so there’s no reason to assume Ellis was even aware of such a thing. I don't think it's automatically hateful to portray gay male characters as villains or buffoons, but it is questionable to portray ALL gay male characters as villains or buffoons. This being across multiple different movies, with stereotypes about how effeminate and predatory they are, while the heroes mock them for their gayness. And like with Ayn Rand, I'm not the first person to point it out. I asked you why someone would feel compelled to endorse backlash if it's just mere criticism (everyone knows criticism is deserving if something is bad), while also comparing it to the SW backlash (which indicates some level of knowledge of how extreme the backlash had gotten - a breadtuber doesn't bring up SW backlash just to say "some people didn't care for it")? I literally just said Tran was Lindsay's comparison and not mine. And her distinction wasn't even that D&D weren't chased off twitter, it's that they're the creators and thus more deserving than just an actress. Why post an FYI that Lindsay may not have known about the death threats if making a blanket statement that the backlash is deserving can in no way be interpreted as including ALL the backlash? Either I'm a weird-leaping liar and Lindsay didn't need to clarify what she said, or Lindsay made a gaffe. Pick one. I’m tired of debating with you on Zack Snyder, so I’m not going to bother entertaining your argument at this point. I’m just letting you know this so you won’t ask why I’m “ignoring” what you said. I asked you why someone would feel compelled to say that they endorse harassment and death threats. You seriously think Lindsay Ellis was dumb enough to openly say that she supports people sending death threats? Who does that? She brought up Kelly Marie Tran because she was making a point about how when a product turns out bad, the blame often falls on the actors, even though they’re just doing their job. Why would that translate to her saying that harassment is all well and good? She’s been very vocal about how she doesn’t endorse that stuff. You think she’d make an exception for D&D just because they screwed up the final season of GoT? I posted the FYI because I was calling attention to how absurd your argument is. Your argument only works if it can be proven that Ellis was aware of any death threats they may have received, which again, was never a major news story, so why would it be a given that she would know about that? She certainly never mentioned them receiving death threats. It’s clear that you’re making the worst possible interpretation of what she said because you feel the need to justify why you don’t like her, which is absurd. There are plenty of things to dislike about Lindsay Ellis. You don’t have to distort what she said in her GoT video to make it sound like she supports death threats. You’ve decided that she must be guilty, so you’re working backwards from the assumption that the only reason she would have for bringing up Kelly Marie Tran is if she’s saying that the exact same thing is happening to D&D. Anyway, this argument is clearly going nowhere.
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Post by darkreviewer2013 on Mar 28, 2021 9:07:50 GMT
People love to make controversy of the dumbest shit nowadays. Do they not have real problems? Combination of too much free time and the bubble that is the Internet.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 28, 2021 9:29:20 GMT
I did not see it.
I do watch Lindsey Ellis and think she has good takes on the whole. I don't think this tweet was racist or particularly offensive.
I have to ask of this imbroglio: How much of this was concern trolling by the right? As much as they proclaim to hate modern day cancel culture, they will weaponize it to the fullest extent at any opportunity to give the "libs" a taste of their own medicine.
And how much was from outraged Asians and leftists?
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Post by moviebuffbrad on Mar 28, 2021 10:13:09 GMT
I don't think it's automatically hateful to portray gay male characters as villains or buffoons, but it is questionable to portray ALL gay male characters as villains or buffoons. This being across multiple different movies, with stereotypes about how effeminate and predatory they are, while the heroes mock them for their gayness. And like with Ayn Rand, I'm not the first person to point it out. I asked you why someone would feel compelled to endorse backlash if it's just mere criticism (everyone knows criticism is deserving if something is bad), while also comparing it to the SW backlash (which indicates some level of knowledge of how extreme the backlash had gotten - a breadtuber doesn't bring up SW backlash just to say "some people didn't care for it")? I literally just said Tran was Lindsay's comparison and not mine. And her distinction wasn't even that D&D weren't chased off twitter, it's that they're the creators and thus more deserving than just an actress. Why post an FYI that Lindsay may not have known about the death threats if making a blanket statement that the backlash is deserving can in no way be interpreted as including ALL the backlash? Either I'm a weird-leaping liar and Lindsay didn't need to clarify what she said, or Lindsay made a gaffe. Pick one. I’m tired of debating with you on Zack Snyder, so I’m not going to bother entertaining your argument at this point. I’m just letting you know this so you won’t ask why I’m “ignoring” what you said. I asked you why someone would feel compelled to say that they endorse harassment and death threats. You seriously think Lindsay Ellis was dumb enough to openly say that she supports people sending death threats? Who does that? She brought up Kelly Marie Tran because she was making a point about how when a product turns out bad, the blame often falls on the actors, even though they’re just doing their job. Why would that translate to her saying that harassment is all well and good? She’s been very vocal about how she doesn’t endorse that stuff. You think she’d make an exception for D&D just because they screwed up the final season of GoT? I posted the FYI because I was calling attention to how absurd your argument is. Your argument only works if it can be proven that Ellis was aware of any death threats they may have received, which again, was never a major news story, so why would it be a given that she would know about that? She certainly never mentioned them receiving death threats. It’s clear that you’re making the worst possible interpretation of what she said because you feel the need to justify why you don’t like her, which is absurd. There are plenty of things to dislike about Lindsay Ellis. You don’t have to distort what she said in her GoT video to make it sound like she supports death threats. You’ve decided that she must be guilty, so you’re working backwards from the assumption that the only reason she would have for bringing up Kelly Marie Tran is if she’s saying that the exact same thing is happening to D&D. Anyway, this argument is clearly going nowhere. I'm tired of debating you period. I think you were right when you suggested putting me on Ignore. I can't think of anyone I've argued with this much without reaching some kind of understanding. They're not even debates, they're me expressing an opinion or trying to understand yours and you obfuscating (of course she didn't OPENLY endorse death threats, I didn't say she OPENLY did) until you run off vowing never to talk with me again until you do. I don't think you've once answered a single question I've posed at you in our entire long, sad history of arguments. And you wonder why they go nowhere. You're the one who assumed I was "making shit up" before I even gave you the timestamp, so funny you say I'm reverse engineering an argument to support my viewpoint. Projection? It's certainly idiotic, considering I previously told you I like some of her videos and have been watching her the 12 years(?) she's been a content creator. My take on her GoT takes are because of her GoT takes. What possible ulterior motive do I have to dislike Lindsay Ellis of all people? It'd be fine if you just didn't support my conclusions, but the way you gaslight my reasonings is so bad faith and weasely. Zack Snyder might be homophobic because of repeated negative portrayals of homosexuals? Weird leap! Saying Ellis endorsed harassment because the backlash she literally said was deserved had escalated to harassment? Absurd! If you want to argue she didn't know, or misspoke, or was being selective, I could maybe give her the benefit of the doubt and this would be over yesterday. But you've spent nearly three pages calling me a liar and insane for saying the backlash she supported had gone too far.
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Post by spooner5020 on Mar 28, 2021 12:30:39 GMT
And? This isn't really about political affiliations, you do not need be Y or Z to qualify as an SJW who obsesses over every little thing and blow it out of proportion. It seems that it is about political affiliations as you have indicated yourself. "SJW" is a right-wing formulation designed to mock the movement for equal civil rights. It is in the same category as "political correctness" or "woke." Your use of that particular conservative code shows exactly where you stand. SJW are right wing? Uh no they’re not. I’m independent and SJW’s are very left. They’re so left that not even the left likes them. In fact no one likes the SJW’s. So get your facts straight.
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