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Post by thebayharborbutcher on Jun 24, 2021 14:20:03 GMT
So you can correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems like everyone who is pro-life is religious in some way? Like I've never met a pro-life atheist. I grew up catholic. I practiced regularly until maybe 3-4 years ago. I always had issues with the Catholic church, but I reached a point where I no longer could ignore them. I still consider myself Christian though. But to me point, I think people need to learn to separate religion from personal choices. Let's say abortion is wrong within the context of your religion. Ok. So that means if you follow your religion 100% if you are ever in a particular kind of situation you would not get an abortion. Ok, that's fine, but don't take away other peoples choices over your religious beliefs. We have a separation between church and state for a reason. People are allowed to believe and act according to their own free will. If you really believe in God, in a christian-judaeo sense, than you would know God gave mankind free will. I think fellow humans should try to not stand in the way of that free will as much as possible.
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Post by jammer81386 on Jun 24, 2021 14:25:27 GMT
The Church, and Pro-lifers in general, argues that abortion is taking away someone's choice: The baby's. In fact it is taking away every choice the baby would ever get to make.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2021 14:26:44 GMT
So you can correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems like everyone who is pro-life is religious in some way? Like I've never met a pro-life atheist. I grew up catholic. I practiced regularly until maybe 3-4 years ago. I always had issues with the Catholic church, but I reached a point where I no longer could ignore them. I still consider myself Christian though. But to me point, I think people need to learn to separate religion from personal choices. Let's say abortion is wrong within the context of your religion. Ok. So that means if you follow your religion 100% if you are ever in a particular kind of situation you would not get an abortion. Ok, that's fine, but don't take away other peoples choices over your religious beliefs. We have a separation between church and state for a reason. People are allowed to believe and act according to their own free will. If you really believe in God, in a christian-judaeo sense, than you would know God gave mankind free will. I think fellow humans should try to not stand in the way of that free will as much as possible. Let's say murder is wrong within the context of your religion. Ok. So that means if you follow your religion 100% if you are ever in a particular kind of situation you would not murder someone. Ok, that's fine, but don't take away other peoples choices over your religious beliefs. We have a separation between church and state for a reason. People are allowed to believe and act according to their own free will. If you really believe in God, in a christian-judeo sense, then you would know God gave mankind free will. I think fellow humans should try to not stand in the way of that free will as much as possible. Murder away folks.
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Post by darkramk on Jun 24, 2021 14:57:56 GMT
I think you're wrong, but not in any way that's really your fault.
I'd say that the loudest opponents, and the only ones you wind up ever hearing from, are people who are religious in some way...and that's why you'd come to that conclusion.
But there's plenty of pro-life people who aren't particularly religious. I'm one.
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Post by Zos on Jun 24, 2021 15:17:33 GMT
The Church, and Pro-lifers in general, argues that abortion is taking away someone's choice: The baby's. In fact it is taking away every choice the baby would ever get to make. The Church and pro lifers believe a clump of cells is a baby which is where problems arise.
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Post by shadyvsesham on Jun 24, 2021 15:31:46 GMT
I was never religious.
My theory is always, not my place. Majority of women don't use it as birth control. It's a bad moment in life.
Look, you wanna make abortion your birth control, can you pay for it, whatever man.
I'm a pro death guy maybe.
Pro choice
Pro death penalty
Shrug
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Post by phludowin on Jun 24, 2021 15:52:12 GMT
The Church, and Pro-lifers in general, argues that abortion is taking away someone's choice: The baby's. In fact it is taking away every choice the baby would ever get to make. Babies don't make choices. And neither do fetuses. They are not persons. Only persons make choices. Therefore, abortion is not taking away the fetuses' choice.
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Post by darkramk on Jun 24, 2021 15:56:38 GMT
The Church, and Pro-lifers in general, argues that abortion is taking away someone's choice: The baby's. In fact it is taking away every choice the baby would ever get to make. Babies don't make choices. And neither do fetuses. They are not persons. Only persons make choices. Therefore, abortion is not taking away the fetuses' choice. Do you know a person that was never a fetus?
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Post by phludowin on Jun 24, 2021 15:56:39 GMT
So you can correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems like everyone who is pro-life is religious in some way? Like I've never met a pro-life atheist. I grew up catholic. I practiced regularly until maybe 3-4 years ago. I always had issues with the Catholic church, but I reached a point where I no longer could ignore them. I still consider myself Christian though. But to me point, I think people need to learn to separate religion from personal choices. Let's say abortion is wrong within the context of your religion. Ok. So that means if you follow your religion 100% if you are ever in a particular kind of situation you would not get an abortion. Ok, that's fine, but don't take away other peoples choices over your religious beliefs. We have a separation between church and state for a reason. People are allowed to believe and act according to their own free will. If you really believe in God, in a christian-judaeo sense, than you would know God gave mankind free will. I think fellow humans should try to not stand in the way of that free will as much as possible. Let's say murder is wrong within the context of your religion. Ok. So that means if you follow your religion 100% if you are ever in a particular kind of situation you would not murder someone. Ok, that's fine, but don't take away other peoples choices over your religious beliefs. We have a separation between church and state for a reason. People are allowed to believe and act according to their own free will. If you really believe in God, in a christian-judeo sense, then you would know God gave mankind free will. I think fellow humans should try to not stand in the way of that free will as much as possible. Murder away folks. Murder victims are persons, aborted fetuses aren't. Persons make choices, fetuses don't. Your freedom ends where the freedom of other persons begin.
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Post by Xeliou66 on Jun 24, 2021 15:57:08 GMT
The vast majority of “pro life” scum are religious and that’s why they are anti choice, their religious beliefs tell them that life begins at the moment of conception and that a clump of cells is the same as an actual human, and plus they see women as baby machines because religion treats women like shit. Anyone who’s rational and not a god wad or a woman hater can see that women should have the right to control their own body and that a clump of cells isn’t a human being.
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Post by phludowin on Jun 24, 2021 15:58:25 GMT
Babies don't make choices. And neither do fetuses. They are not persons. Only persons make choices. Therefore, abortion is not taking away the fetuses' choice. Do you know a person that was never a fetus? Do you know a person that was never a sperm?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2021 15:58:51 GMT
Let's say murder is wrong within the context of your religion. Ok. So that means if you follow your religion 100% if you are ever in a particular kind of situation you would not murder someone. Ok, that's fine, but don't take away other peoples choices over your religious beliefs. We have a separation between church and state for a reason. People are allowed to believe and act according to their own free will. If you really believe in God, in a christian-judeo sense, then you would know God gave mankind free will. I think fellow humans should try to not stand in the way of that free will as much as possible. Murder away folks. Murder victims are persons Which includes unborn babies, as evidenced by the double homicide convictions of people who murder pregnant women.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2021 16:00:22 GMT
The vast majority of “pro life” scum are religious Correct. Incorrect. We're following the science.
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Post by darkramk on Jun 24, 2021 16:04:16 GMT
Do you know a person that was never a fetus? Do you know a person that was never a sperm? Nope. The difference is that an unfertilized sperm can't ever be a person and a fetus most definitely can (if you don't kill it). A sperm is not recognized as a human life...a fetus most definitely is.
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Post by Xeliou66 on Jun 24, 2021 16:08:34 GMT
The vast majority of “pro life” scum are religious Correct. Incorrect. We're following the science. LOL, religious people don’t follow science, most of these anti choice people also believe the earth is 6000 years old and deny evolution. And science doesn’t say that a clump of cells is the same as a human being, and don’t give me any bullshit about fetuses being the same as humans. And anyway, women have the right to bodily autonomy and to get rid of something that’s feeding off of their body. The truth is, most anti choicers are just god wads who believe that women were put on earth to pump out babies and serve men, and don’t see them as deserving of basic rights.
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Post by phludowin on Jun 24, 2021 16:09:23 GMT
Murder victims are persons Which includes unborn babies, as evidenced by the double homicide convictions of people who murder pregnant women. Sometimes, the law does not follow the science. For centuries, it was illegal to say that the Earth revolves around the Sun. This does not mean that it doesn't, just like fetuses don't become persons just because of some homicide laws.
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Post by phludowin on Jun 24, 2021 16:14:17 GMT
Do you know a person that was never a sperm? Nope. The difference is that an unfertilized sperm can't ever be a person and a fetus most definitely can (if you don't kill it). A sperm is not recognized as a human life...a fetus most definitely is. And yet, at one point, every fetus was composed of two distinct entities; a sperm and an egg cell. And whether a fetus is a human life is irrelevant anyway; it's whether it's a person that matters for its right to life. And a fetus is not a person.
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Post by darkramk on Jun 24, 2021 16:18:08 GMT
Correct. Incorrect. We're following the science. LOL, religious people don’t follow science, most of these anti choice people also believe the earth is 6000 years old and deny evolution. And science doesn’t say that a clump of cells is the same as a human being, and don’t give me any bullshit about fetuses being the same as humans. And anyway, women have the right to bodily autonomy and to get rid of something that’s feeding off of their body. The truth is, most anti choicers are just god wads who believe that women were put on earth to pump out babies and serve men, and don’t see them as deserving of basic rights. That's a popular myth. Most religious people are fine with science, believing that God created life to evolve. People who believe earth is only 6000 years old are very rare, but because you have an appetite for talking about them, some media make those rare people and things they say real easy to find. We might call this the Westboro technique. News of their "God hates Fags" message spread like wildfire and reflected badly on religious communities everywhere...while only having about 70 actual members, with only about 30 who participated in that nonsense, mostly members of the Phelps family. Would you say 30 people mostly from one family is an accurate sample of the entire faith-positive population? The technique is about whatever gets you to answer 'yes' to that question.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2021 16:19:31 GMT
Which includes unborn babies, as evidenced by the double homicide convictions of people who murder pregnant women. Sometimes, the law does not follow the science. For centuries, it was illegal to say that the Earth revolves around the Sun. This does not mean that it doesn't, just like fetuses don't become persons just because of some homicide laws. Science doesn't determine personhood. We can argue that philosophy rules this, but the problem with philosophy is that it has no inherent power. Ultimately, the law determines personhood, filling the void left by powerless philosophy.
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Post by darkramk on Jun 24, 2021 16:19:38 GMT
Nope. The difference is that an unfertilized sperm can't ever be a person and a fetus most definitely can (if you don't kill it). A sperm is not recognized as a human life...a fetus most definitely is. And yet, at one point, every fetus was composed of two distinct entities; a sperm and an egg cell. And whether a fetus is a human life is irrelevant anyway; it's whether it's a person that matters for its right to life. And a fetus is not a person. Why not? What constitutes personhood?
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