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Post by NJtoTX on Sept 10, 2021 12:28:59 GMT
A friend posted this.
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Post by rachelcarson1953 on Sept 10, 2021 22:34:00 GMT
Back in the days before Facebook, in 1989, 35 year old I was being treated, aggressively, for Stage 2 cancer. My parents told everyone at their church to pray for me and send cards. And my mother didn't spare any details, so people were praying for my urinary tract infection and the diarrhea that goes along with chemo. My husband was furious; essentially cut my mother off from any communication with me - Dad was still welcome - but Dad knew, since his own mother had died from the same cancer, that privacy and dignity was important. He had been her caregiver. After I was in remission and getting better, my mother asked about all the cards her friends had sent. I told her that I had burned each and every one. She was horrified. I said, "Mother, you know I am an atheist. Why would religious cards comfort me? More than anything, they pissed me off and made me feel worse. Why would you do that? I am alive because of advances in medical science, not prayer." She held a grudge against both my husband and I until she died. Just recently, at age 98.
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Post by Admin on Sept 10, 2021 22:45:06 GMT
He could have just said thanks. WTF is wrong with people, indeed.
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Post by mystery on Sept 10, 2021 23:05:58 GMT
I tend to see it as Christian virtue signaling. They want everyone to know they're doing a good deed... which kind of cancels it out, IMO. I had a relative with a baby in NICU, and some of the comments she got were pretty obnoxious. People really have no reason to broadcast their prayers like that except to seek attention for themselves.
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Post by rachelcarson1953 on Sept 10, 2021 23:10:40 GMT
I tend to see it as Christian virtue signaling. They want everyone to know they're doing a good deed... which kind of cancels it out, IMO. I had a relative with a baby in NICU, and some of the comments she got were pretty obnoxious. People really have no reason to broadcast their prayers like that except to seek attention for themselves. ^^^^^^^THIS^^^^^^^
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Post by Admin on Sept 10, 2021 23:11:17 GMT
I tend to see it as Christian virtue signaling. They want everyone to know they're doing a good deed... which kind of cancels it out, IMO. I had a relative with a baby in NICU, and some of the comments she got were pretty obnoxious. People really have no reason to broadcast their prayers like that except to seek attention for themselves. "Don't pray for me." - "I'm going to pray for you anyway." "Stop virtue signaling." 
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Post by NJtoTX on Sept 10, 2021 23:29:15 GMT
He could have just said thanks. WTF is wrong with people, indeed. Given his very-clearly-specified request, the person's response to override it was passive-agressive and hostile. It's one thing when someone offers prayer out of the blue, but when someone specifically asks "please refrain from doing this," then completely ignores that, they've chosen to make it about themself, and it's no longer a well-meaning intention. It's completely justified to feel deliberately disrespected, and there's no doubt that this persons intentions are not good. If they trusted in the power of their prayers, they wouldn’t have to announce that they’re doing it. If it’s so important that you pray for somebody even against their will, why tell them about it at all? Just say your little prayers and STFU about it. Matthew 6:5-6 “And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by others. When you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Or how about: “I know you don’t want me to pray, so I’ve made a donation toward cancer research in your honor. If you let me know how I can best support you as a friend, I will do my best to do so.”.
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Post by Admin on Sept 10, 2021 23:38:48 GMT
He could have just said thanks. WTF is wrong with people, indeed. Given his very-clearly-specified request, the person's response to override it was passive-agressive and hostile. It's one thing when someone offers prayer out of the blue, but when someone specifically asks "please refrain from doing this," then completely ignores that, they've chosen to make it about themself, and it's no longer a well-meaning intention. It's completely justified to feel deliberately disrespected, and there's no doubt that this persons intentions are not good. If they trusted in the power of their prayers, they wouldn’t have to announce that they’re doing it. If it’s so important that you pray for somebody even against their will, why tell them about it at all? Just say your little prayers and STFU about it. Matthew 6:5-6 “And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by others. When you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Or how about: “I know you don’t want me to pray, so I’ve made a donation toward cancer research in your honor. If you let me know how I can best support you as a friend, I will do my best to do so.”. There is an endless supply of bad things in the world, but this ain't one of them. This guy is making a mountain out of an imaginary molehill.
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Post by rachelcarson1953 on Sept 11, 2021 0:09:04 GMT
Given his very-clearly-specified request, the person's response to override it was passive-agressive and hostile. It's one thing when someone offers prayer out of the blue, but when someone specifically asks "please refrain from doing this," then completely ignores that, they've chosen to make it about themself, and it's no longer a well-meaning intention. It's completely justified to feel deliberately disrespected, and there's no doubt that this persons intentions are not good. If they trusted in the power of their prayers, they wouldn’t have to announce that they’re doing it. If it’s so important that you pray for somebody even against their will, why tell them about it at all? Just say your little prayers and STFU about it. Matthew 6:5-6 “And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by others. When you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Or how about: “I know you don’t want me to pray, so I’ve made a donation toward cancer research in your honor. If you let me know how I can best support you as a friend, I will do my best to do so.”. There is an endless supply of bad things in the world, but this ain't one of them. This guy is making a mountain out of an imaginary molehill. I've been through this, and it isn't a molehill. My ongoing response to anyone I know going through a difficult time is to ask sincerely, "Is there anything I can do to help you?" And if they ask for prayer, I say I will, despite my own atheism. I will also talk to anyone in this situation, over the phone, anytime, day or night, if they want to call me, because some of the bleakest times are in the middle of the night. I listen, I empathize and let them know I support whatever is best for them. Sometimes, just talking to someone who has "been there, done that" is a form of therapy. In the 32 years since my diagnosis, I can't tell you how many cancer patients I have had this arrangement with. And those with other diagnoses. It's my little way of paying things forward.
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Post by rizdek on Sept 11, 2021 0:16:32 GMT
I tend to see it as Christian virtue signaling. They want everyone to know they're doing a good deed... which kind of cancels it out, IMO. I had a relative with a baby in NICU, and some of the comments she got were pretty obnoxious. People really have no reason to broadcast their prayers like that except to seek attention for themselves. That is precisely what it is...telling someone you are praying for them when they didn't want it is a waste of breath and rude. You're just trying to show how pious and virtuous you are. IF you are going to pray, do not be like the hypocrites. For they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by men. Truly I tell you, they already have their full reward. But when you pray, go into your inner room, shut your door, and pray to your Father, who is unseen. IOW don't brag about it.
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Post by Admin on Sept 11, 2021 0:22:20 GMT
There is an endless supply of bad things in the world, but this ain't one of them. This guy is making a mountain out of an imaginary molehill. I've been through this, and it isn't a molehill. My ongoing response to anyone I know going through a difficult time is to ask sincerely, "Is there anything I can do to help you?" And if they ask for prayer, I say I will, despite my own atheism. I will also talk to anyone in this situation, over the phone, anytime, day or night, if they want to call me, because some of the bleakest times are in the middle of the night. I listen, I empathize and let them know I support whatever is best for them. Sometimes, just talking to someone who has "been there, done that" is a form of therapy. In the 32 years since my diagnosis, I can't tell you how many cancer patients I have had this arrangement with. And those with other diagnoses. It's my little way of paying things forward. "This situation?" Good lord, Rachel, we're talking about harmless words here, and you're saying people are in therapy because someone prayed for them without their consent? What's next? Rubber rooms for those who are victims of the "have a nice day" assholes?
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Post by rizdek on Sept 11, 2021 0:23:17 GMT
He could have just said thanks. WTF is wrong with people, indeed.
Heck...if someone actually trusted God to do what's best for everyone, even prayer is unnecessary...It's telling God what he already knows and asking him to do what he's already decided to do or not. And if his decisions can be swayed by jjjjuuuuussstttttt one more prayer uttered just the right way with the proper intonation, he's a fickle bully.
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Post by rizdek on Sept 11, 2021 0:26:59 GMT
I've been through this, and it isn't a molehill. My ongoing response to anyone I know going through a difficult time is to ask sincerely, "Is there anything I can do to help you?" And if they ask for prayer, I say I will, despite my own atheism. I will also talk to anyone in this situation, over the phone, anytime, day or night, if they want to call me, because some of the bleakest times are in the middle of the night. I listen, I empathize and let them know I support whatever is best for them. Sometimes, just talking to someone who has "been there, done that" is a form of therapy. In the 32 years since my diagnosis, I can't tell you how many cancer patients I have had this arrangement with. And those with other diagnoses. It's my little way of paying things forward. "This situation?" Good lord, Rachel, we're talking about harmless words here, and you're saying people are in therapy because someone prayed for them without their consent? What's next? Rubber rooms for those who are victims of the "have nice day" assholes? Would you appreciate if someone told you they were going to pray to....Satan for you health when you asked them not to? I mean...you might not care and assume it's just them trying to be nice in the only way they know how.
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Post by Admin on Sept 11, 2021 0:32:44 GMT
"This situation?" Good lord, Rachel, we're talking about harmless words here, and you're saying people are in therapy because someone prayed for them without their consent? What's next? Rubber rooms for those who are victims of the "have nice day" assholes? Would you appreciate if someone told you they were going to pray to....Satan for you health when you asked them not to? I mean...you might not care and assume it's just them trying to be nice in the only way they know how. To pray for someone just means to wish them well, and whether or not it's an "actual" prayer doesn't change that. If someone wants to "pray to Satan" for me (ie, 'being nice in the only way they know how'), then I'll just say thank you and be on my way. There's no victim here.
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Post by rachelcarson1953 on Sept 11, 2021 3:34:17 GMT
I've been through this, and it isn't a molehill. My ongoing response to anyone I know going through a difficult time is to ask sincerely, "Is there anything I can do to help you?" And if they ask for prayer, I say I will, despite my own atheism. I will also talk to anyone in this situation, over the phone, anytime, day or night, if they want to call me, because some of the bleakest times are in the middle of the night. I listen, I empathize and let them know I support whatever is best for them. Sometimes, just talking to someone who has "been there, done that" is a form of therapy. In the 32 years since my diagnosis, I can't tell you how many cancer patients I have had this arrangement with. And those with other diagnoses. It's my little way of paying things forward. "This situation?" Good lord, Rachel, we're talking about harmless words here, and you're saying people are in therapy because someone prayed for them without their consent? What's next? Rubber rooms for those who are victims of the "have a nice day" assholes? I repeat, I HAVE BEEN THROUGH THIS, and yes, words very much matter. Why do you think people attend support groups? If you are sick and someone is doing something that upsets you, that is bad health-wise. All energy should go to healing. I was lucky to have a support group through my husband's illness and death, and an actual therapist while I was being treated for cancer. At 12 years old, I had watched my aunt die of the same cancer I had, and being diagnosed at age 35, I was scared to death. I couldn't get those images out of my head. Yes, positive words helped me, the therapist listened and spoke of advances in medical science and that my chances were good. My mother's friends offers of prayers pissed me off. None of them asked what I needed, they were just virtue signaling. Prayers didn't help my aunt, my grandmother, and the other many female relatives of mine that DIED of the same disease I had. None of her friends offered to DO anything to help, prepare food that I could eat, come with me to a chemo session, get some groceries, get my meds at the pharmacy, nothing but empty words. Two hands working can do more than a thousand clasped in prayer. Anonymous
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Post by rachelcarson1953 on Sept 11, 2021 3:50:35 GMT
Would you appreciate if someone told you they were going to pray to....Satan for you health when you asked them not to? I mean...you might not care and assume it's just them trying to be nice in the only way they know how. To pray for someone just means to wish them well, and whether or not it's an "actual" prayer doesn't change that. If someone wants to "pray to Satan" for me (ie, 'being nice in the only way they know how'), then I'll just say thank you and be on my way. There's no victim here. No, to simply wish them well is to say, "you are in my thoughts, is there anything I can do to help and I hope things get better." Better yet, "Call me if I can help in any way." Praying is inherently religious. How would you feel if you were sick, and someone said that their Satanic cult would sacrifice an infant for you?
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Post by Admin on Sept 11, 2021 4:07:10 GMT
"This situation?" Good lord, Rachel, we're talking about harmless words here, and you're saying people are in therapy because someone prayed for them without their consent? What's next? Rubber rooms for those who are victims of the "have a nice day" assholes? I repeat, I HAVE BEEN THROUGH THIS, and yes, words very much matter. Why do you think people attend support groups? If you are sick and someone is doing something that upsets you, that is bad health-wise. All energy should go to healing. I was lucky to have a support group through my husband's illness and death, and an actual therapist while I was being treated for cancer. At 12 years old, I had watched my aunt die of the same cancer I had, and being diagnosed at age 35, I was scared to death. I couldn't get those images out of my head. Yes, positive words helped me, the therapist listened and spoke of advances in medical science and that my chances were good. My mother's friends offers of prayers pissed me off. None of them asked what I needed, they were just virtue signaling. Prayers didn't help my aunt, my grandmother, and the other many female relatives of mine that DIED of the same disease I had. None of her friends offered to DO anything to help, prepare food that I could eat, come with me to a chemo session, get some groceries, get my meds at the pharmacy, nothing but empty words. Two hands working can do more than a thousand clasped in prayer. Anonymous If prayers are nothing but empty words (and I'm not saying they aren't), how can they hurt? If someone needs therapy because someone prayed for them in times of trouble, I suspect deeper issues are at play.
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Post by Admin on Sept 11, 2021 4:08:53 GMT
To pray for someone just means to wish them well, and whether or not it's an "actual" prayer doesn't change that. If someone wants to "pray to Satan" for me (ie, 'being nice in the only way they know how'), then I'll just say thank you and be on my way. There's no victim here. No, to simply wish them well is to say, "you are in my thoughts, is there anything I can do to help and I hope things get better." Better yet, "Call me if I can help in any way." Praying is inherently religious. How would you feel if you were sick, and someone said that their Satanic cult would sacrifice an infant for you? Did you really just equate a prayer for someone to get better with infanticide?
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Post by Admin on Sept 11, 2021 4:11:54 GMT
He could have just said thanks. WTF is wrong with people, indeed. This one guy is cancer victim not the guy getting the spiritual brush-off. So, WTF won't this other guy respect the sick person's request. It is his life and soul, not the do-gooder's. Other than the cancer issue (obviously), there are no victims here.
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Post by rachelcarson1953 on Sept 11, 2021 4:18:04 GMT
Just off the top of my head, I am damn sick and tired of politely ignoring believers efforts to convince me that their religion is the right religion, and that includes the offering of prayers for a known non-believer. In fact, I think it is mean.
I have one friend who no longer is polite; she tells them what she thinks, whether they want to hear it or not. She tells them why she is not a believer and she doesn't mince words. Why do we atheists have to be polite to someone telling us what to believe?
Her aunt offered the explanation, at my friend's brother's funeral, that this was all part of God's plan. My friend had politely passed it off at each of her parents' funerals, but this time she blew. "So God has some plan that involves taking a father away from his children? Your god doesn't sound very nice to me, in fact kind of cruel." It caused quite the rift in the family; the aunt wrote that side of the family out of her will and told them that she had.
Atheists don't pester people going door to door to convert people. Atheists rarely even mention their belief system, or lack thereof, to anyone, except on a forum like this. We know that if we did talk about it, no one would politely ignore it, there would be a fist fight.
And it is all over a belief for which there is no evidence. It is all about believing a mythology, of which there are many. It's like fighting over whether "Star Wars" or "Star Trek" has the better mythology.
So, believe whatever you want to believe, and let me not believe, without being badgered.
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