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Post by Deleted on May 26, 2017 5:27:01 GMT
Is Micheal Hayes that bad now? I really haven't listened to much of his recent interviews. Probably not anymore since he's in the HOF. I just remember anytime he'd be on the round tables he'd mark out on himself and how he deserved to be in the HOF and it's BS that he's not in it and so on. He'd just get this massive hard on whenever he got to talk about himself. I haven't listened to anything he's said in years but I remember how obnoxious he was about himself.
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Post by Jayman on May 26, 2017 7:50:01 GMT
Oh ok. Have you checked out some of the old clips? I think I have a few of them posted in the classic wrestling thread. But I believe the stuff against the von erichs is my favorite. He may not have been the greatest in the ring but the dude was like the David Lee Roth of wrestling. Except he couldn't sing if his life depended on it. But I understand what you say about somebody's attitude behind the scenes making it harder for you to become a fan. Usually I can separate the art from the artist (if that's the right way of putting it), but the 2 people I have a hard time doing that with is Ole Anderson and Bill Watts. When I watch the dvd's of Georgia and mid south and those guys are commenting and acting like mr. nice guy I just can't buy it and it kills it for me.
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Post by Deleted on May 26, 2017 13:30:54 GMT
Oh ok. Have you checked out some of the old clips? I think I have a few of them posted in the classic wrestling thread. But I believe the stuff against the von erichs is my favorite. He may not have been the greatest in the ring but the dude was like the David Lee Roth of wrestling. Except he couldn't sing if his life depended on it. But I understand what you say about somebody's attitude behind the scenes making it harder for you to become a fan. Usually I can separate the art from the artist (if that's the right way of putting it), but the 2 people I have a hard time doing that with is Ole Anderson and Bill Watts. When I watch the dvd's of Georgia and mid south and those guys are commenting and acting like mr. nice guy I just can't buy it and it kills it for me. I love the Freebird old school stuff in WCCW, NWA, etc. Ever see the match on Youtube where they had a cup of cofee in WWF and apparently they had heat with Andre backstage for showing up late - which is why rumor has it they didn't return. Interesting to see Gordy back down from somebody. Anyway - it was around the time Cyndi Lauper was doing the 'Rock & Wrestling stuff' - it may have been MSG - but she led them down to the ring. Was interesting to see the Freebirds in the WWF. I find it interesting Hayes made such a name and Icon for himself with the Freebirds outside of the WWF - but he really never amounted to anything special while with them for so many years even though it was a 'Manager'. Jerry Lawler comes to mind too - a legend elsewhere but in WWF - was kind of 'meh' but managed to hang around for years.
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Post by Jayman on May 26, 2017 19:54:23 GMT
Yeah I do remember the freebirds in the wwf. I heard about that stuff with Andre backstage. It was MSG. I was at almost every MSG show in '84 but I think I watched that one at home on cable. I just remember them wrestling 3 job guys in a six man, they were on tv once before or after that show and that was it. They could pretty much go wherever they wanted to at that point because they had already been a huge draw for years. I think Haye's career was pretty much done by the time he came in to the wwf. They pretty much just used him as an announce guy. In typical wwf fashion they gave him a new name and pretended like he never had a wrestling career previously. The Freebirds aged pretty quickly from all those years partying on the road.
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Post by Deleted on May 26, 2017 20:19:54 GMT
Yeah I do remember the freebirds in the wwf. I heard about that stuff with Andre backstage. It was MSG. I was at almost every MSG show in '84 but I think I watched that one at home on cable. I just remember them wrestling 3 job guys in a six man, they were on tv once before or after that show and that was it. They could pretty much go wherever they wanted to at that point because they had already been a huge draw for years. I think Haye's career was pretty much done by the time he came in to the wwf. They pretty much just used him as an announce guy. In typical wwf fashion they gave him a new name and pretended like he never had a wrestling career previously. The Freebirds aged pretty quickly from all those years partying on the road. missed opportunity in my eyes. repackage Michael PS Hayes from the Freebirds to Doc Hendricks or whatever they called him? if nothing else if he can't wrestle anymore you utilize him on the mic or as a manager as the former Freebird.......
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Post by Jayman on May 26, 2017 20:28:01 GMT
You would think they could've done something better with him yeah. You could almost make the same argument about Lord Alfred Hayes. He'd been a wrestler for for 20 + years and a heel manager. They bring him in as an announcer, pretend he never had a career, and basically try to make a fool out of him as much as they possibly can. At least they didn't change his name though
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Post by Deleted on May 26, 2017 20:59:44 GMT
You would think they could've done something better with him yeah. You could almost make the same argument about Lord Alfred Hayes. He'd been a wrestler for for 20 + years and a heel manager. They bring him in as an announcer, pretend he never had a career, and basically try to make a fool out of him as much as they possibly can. At least they didn't change his name though No kiddin'. I never knew about Lord Alfred. Did he carry over the same name at least? Begs the question - and we've all heard it - how WWF(E) buries outside talent for the sake of burying them. I never agreed with that sentiment - I can give you Guerrero, Benoit, Goldberg, Booker, the list goes on and on. In a lot of situations I think it is up to the entertainer to get over once they're out there to get a 'reaction' and get over with the crowd. But I'm curious how many old school legends came over to WWF(E) after a gigantic run in another Fed and were just totally repackaged and rebranded - with a different name. Hayes comes to mind. Any others?
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Post by Jayman on May 26, 2017 21:56:40 GMT
Yeah they never changed his name. That's just what Vince liked to do with veterans. Embarrass them and shame them. I believe if he thought he can make real money with a guy, he's not going to bury them. But if it's a guy he sees as a mid carder then it did happen. A lot of the guys he snatched up from the beginning of the expansion were basically just jobbed out and not used. mainly Terry Taylor coming in off his hot run in the UWF and world class, Al Perez, Playbody Buddy Rose, a whole bunch of guys like that. Then later on you had people like Tracy Smothers, Tony Anthony and people like that. There was a whole bunch of guys. I didn't particularly like what they did with the Sheepherders, but apparently they liked the gimmick. Why I have no freakin idea it was the stupidest thing I've ever seen. Also Dick slater and how they punished Ricky Steamboat.
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Post by Deleted on May 26, 2017 22:12:19 GMT
Yeah they never changed his name. That's just what Vince liked to do with veterans. Embarrass them and shame them. I believe if he thought he can make real money with a guy, he's not going to bury them. But if it's a guy he sees as a mid carder then it did happen. A lot of the guys he snatched up from the beginning of the expansion were basically just jobbed out and not used. mainly Terry Taylor coming in off his hot run in the UWF and world class, Al Perez, Playbody Buddy Rose, a whole bunch of guys like that. Then later on you had people like Tracy Smothers, Tony Anthony and people like that. There was a whole bunch of guys. I didn't particularly like what they did with the Sheepherders, but apparently they liked the gimmick. Why I have no freakin idea it was the stupidest thing I've ever seen. Also Dick slater and how they punished Ricky Steamboat. Interesting list there. Didn't 'Playboy Buddy Rose' face Von Erich on Saturday Night's Main Event in either one or the other's WWF debut and that was pretty much the end of him? Al Perez - never new he was in the WWF. Taylor - agreed - watched some clips from other feds and he was a main eventer - shame they put that gimmick on him. Sheepherders - before my time - read they were viscious (i couldn't stand the Bushwackers - so they turned them 180 degrees into a joke?) Tracy Smothers - isn't he still around to this day wrestling for Indy Promotions ala 'The Wrestler' wrestling for promotions like The Insane Clown Posse's JCW? Or am I thinking of somebody else. I don't recall him in WWF either - was it in some 'Cowboy Tag Team' Gimmick? Who's Tony Anthony?
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Post by Jayman on May 26, 2017 22:31:42 GMT
That was just a list off the top of my head. I'm sure there's dozens more I'll think of later. I don't recall Rose vs. Von erich. I'm not saying that didn't happen, but I just don't remember. He came back in in 1984 and got a mild push and then they just used him as a job guy. Perez was there for a little while. I don't remember what happened with that but you didn't see him on tv much. The Sheepherders were pretty brutal and always an awesome team. I guess the bit they did for the kids worked for them. I thought it sucked. I"m sure Tracy is still around doing something on the indies. That was that Freddy Joe Floyd they called him. A rib on the briscos. Not so funny. Tony Anthony was the Dirty white boy. They brought him in and gave him a gimmick as a plumber or somebody that cleans toilets or something stupid like that. And I don't care what anybody says about Dusty still being Dusty. Who wants to see him with those stupid polka dots and that ridiculous song he game out to.
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Post by Deleted on May 26, 2017 22:39:59 GMT
That was just a list off the top of my head. I'm sure there's dozens more I'll think of later. I don't recall Rose vs. Von erich. I'm not saying that didn't happen, but I just don't remember. He came back in in 1984 and got a mild push and then they just used him as a job guy. Perez was there for a little while. I don't remember what happened with that but you didn't see him on tv much. The Sheepherders were pretty brutal and always an awesome team. I guess the bit they did for the kids worked for them. I thought it sucked. I"m sure Tracy is still around doing something on the indies. That was that Freddy Joe Floyd they called him. A rib on the briscos. Not so funny. Tony Anthony was the Dirty white boy. They brought him in and gave him a gimmick as a plumber or somebody that cleans toilets or something stupid like that. And I don't care what anybody says about Dusty still being Dusty. Who wants to see him with those stupid polka dots and that ridiculous song he game out to. ah. But was 'the dirty white boy' really a legend or to a lesser extent a known name in the mid-upper card? maybe i'm being ignornant. i remember the name - because sadly after Jake the Snake Roberts fell hard and fell deeper into his demons - I think (correct me if I'm wrong) - it was Smokey Mountain Wrestling in it's dying days when 'the dirty white boy' took the strap off him. but can't you consider this cat kind of like a name in CZW, Portland Wrestling, etc. or again - am i being ignorant to 'the dirty white boys' greatness?
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Post by Jayman on May 26, 2017 22:55:45 GMT
Nah Definitely not a legend. He was in SMW towards the end. I guess that's more mid carders. Or guys he viewed as mid carders. I think for the most part they didn't really bury somebody that was once really on top. Ric Flair and Harley Race were probably the 2 biggest legends and they got pushed. I just didn't like the way he took away talent from all these other areas and just pushed them all to the back burner and phased them out. It was like he just wanted to take the talent to put everybody else out of business and not because he thought he could make money with them.
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Post by kaasa on May 27, 2017 0:40:03 GMT
Hey now, don't forget about Terry and Hoss Funk.
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Post by Jayman on May 27, 2017 1:37:25 GMT
At least Terry got a pretty big push. I think I read that Hoss was a nickname Dory had in high school or something. I thought it was some stupid dukes of hazard stuff at the time.
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Post by shadyvsesham on May 27, 2017 16:38:25 GMT
TY for mentioning Sean Stasiak Jayman that guy was such a bore. Im gonna also say Bret Hart. I just think his gimmick was so tired and stale. Hulk Hogan....maybe your meant Horace Hogan? I also see what youre saying about Undertaker too screaming. Oddly, him and Jake the Snake were my dads favorite two, so I sadly always had a soft spot for Undertaker, but he was def a "yes" man and never "THE man." Also, I gotta agree with Michael Hayes sentiments.
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Post by coldenhaulfield on Jun 2, 2017 1:25:07 GMT
Jesus CHRIST, you guys. Reading this thread is bumming me out. Most overrated of all time, and people are throwing out Punk, Bret, Piper, and even Hogan? Yikes. I'll buy that any one of those guys is overrated is some aspects (Punk as a worker, Bret as an overall centerpiece act, Piper as a draw to some extent, and Hogan as a worker) but of ALL-TIME? I don't think so.
I'll say the Rock, whose entire gimmick was that he basically worked soft/sloppily and was all talk. Honorable mention to Roman Reigns, who's easily the worst guy I've ever seen pushed that hard, far inferior in terms of getting over than even Kevin Nash or Sid.
Most underrated of all-time? The Ultimate Warrior. Seriously. Nobody's ever gotten paid more to do less in a wrestling ring than Jim Hellwig, not even Goldberg.
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Post by Jayman on Jun 3, 2017 5:34:09 GMT
Jesus CHRIST, you guys. Reading this thread is bumming me out. Most overrated of all time, and people are throwing out Punk, Bret, Piper, and even Hogan? Yikes. I'll buy that any one of those guys is overrated is some aspects (Punk as a worker, Bret as an overall centerpiece act, Piper as a draw to some extent, and Hogan as a worker) but of ALL-TIME? I don't think so. I'll say the Rock, whose entire gimmick was that he basically worked soft/sloppily and was all talk. Honorable mention to Roman Reigns, who's easily the worst guy I've ever seen pushed that hard, far inferior in terms of getting over than even Kevin Nash or Sid. Most underrated of all-time? The Ultimate Warrior. Seriously. Nobody's ever gotten paid more to do less in a wrestling ring than Jim Hellwig, not even Goldberg. I knew I'd catch heat from somebody for my Brett Hart post Welcome back to the forum dude. Long time no see
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Post by hoskotafe3 on Jun 3, 2017 22:41:49 GMT
I think most of the criticism is BS to be honest. It comes down him being The Guy. Seth Rollins, Dean Ambrose and especially Kevin Owens bring no more in any category than Reigns but "he's being shoved down our throats." Whatever.
Typically I'd say that being over rated isn't neccesarily a bad thing. It firstly means you are highly rated by a lot of people to start with. And the more people rate you as being better than you are the more over rated you are. For instance The most over rated basketballer is almost certainly Michael Jordan. That doesn't mean he isn't one of, if not the, best ever. It just means that his legacy is inflated to such an extent that the gap between perception and reality is greater than anyone else in his sport. And you can probably say the same in every sport.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 3, 2017 23:19:14 GMT
I think most of the criticism is BS to be honest. It comes down him being The Guy. Seth Rollins, Dean Ambrose and especially Kevin Owens bring no more in any category than Reigns but "he's being shoved down our throats." Whatever. Typically I'd say that being over rated isn't neccesarily a bad thing. It firstly means you are highly rated by a lot of people to start with. And the more people rate you as being better than you are the more over rated you are. For instance The most over rated basketballer is almost certainly Michael Jordan. That doesn't mean he isn't one of, if not the, best ever. It just means that his legacy is inflated to such an extent that the gap between perception and reality is greater than anyone else in his sport. And you can probably say the same in every sport. interesting. interesting indeed. how would you argue michael jordan is overrated?
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Post by Jayman on Jun 4, 2017 17:58:36 GMT
I think that's kind of overthinking it and concentrating more on what the term "overrated" means. In my view it just means that it's somebody that everybody else thinks is the second coming but you don't.
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