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Post by gadreel on Feb 1, 2022 22:28:44 GMT
Everyone's entry is between them and God™ I think Jesus was just giving guidelines, not issuing passes. Sounds like you found a big enough blender after all.  #nocamels
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Post by gadreel on Feb 2, 2022 10:05:37 GMT
I think that the beatitudes have nothing to do with politics or earthly information, I think Augustine has it right, the whole thing is a guide on the temperament, and mental outlook required for spiritual growth, the kingdom of heaven in this context often means the spiritual kingdom, not a physical after death realm, at least that is the interpretation I feel is closest to the intention of the writing catholicgnosis.wordpress.com/2020/10/19/augustine-beatitudes/ The hope is if enough people will act with loving kindness towards all others, then the real world itself becomes closer to notion of the hoped for paradise. Even if war or violence becomes necessary, the foe should be given the opportunity to survive if possible. So, this equates to turning the other cheek. The USA did this post-WWII. Agreed, I think I have said before, I am a Christian (in as much as I am) because I think it is a path to salvation in this life, I know nothing about the next.
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Post by gadreel on Feb 2, 2022 10:07:31 GMT
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Post by gadreel on Feb 2, 2022 10:10:46 GMT
Sounds like you found a big enough blender after all. The legend about the camel is the Camel’s Needle was a harrow door in a larger gate that a camel couldn’t enter unless it has all its cargo unloaded. So, like the Rich Young Man, entry into Heaven is nearly impossible until one unburdens themselves to their desires to meet God’s desires, which from the mouth of Jesus is loving kindness. And these earthly desires are not necessarily bad things in and of themselves. Yeah I have read that, I am not sure I am convinced. It's a nice story to fit the parable, like too nice, nowhere is a door like that actually mentioned. EDIT: Sorry I mean specifically about the door.
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The Lost One
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Post by The Lost One on Feb 2, 2022 16:33:35 GMT
The legend about the camel is the Camel’s Needle was a harrow door in a larger gate that a camel couldn’t enter unless it has all its cargo unloaded. So, like the Rich Young Man, entry into Heaven is nearly impossible until one unburdens themselves to their desires to meet God’s desires, which from the mouth of Jesus is loving kindness. And these earthly desires are not necessarily bad things in and of themselves. Yeah I have read that, I am not sure I am convinced. It's a nice story to fit the parable, like too nice, nowhere is a door like that actually mentioned. EDIT: Sorry I mean specifically about the door. Yeah, you're right to be dubious. There is zero evidence of such a name being used for a narrow gateway. It was basically an invention of rich Christians in the Middle Ages who wanted to change the saying from "it's impossible for a rich person to enter Heaven" to "it's very difficult for a rich person to enter Heaven". Although Jesus does imply that God can grant exceptions here.
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Post by gadreel on Feb 2, 2022 17:18:55 GMT
Yeah I have read that, I am not sure I am convinced. It's a nice story to fit the parable, like too nice, nowhere is a door like that actually mentioned. EDIT: Sorry I mean specifically about the door. Yeah, you're right to be dubious. There is zero evidence of such a name being used for a narrow gateway. It was basically an invention of rich Christians in the Middle Ages who wanted to change the saying from "it's impossible for a rich person to enter Heaven" to "it's very difficult for a rich person to enter Heaven". Although Jesus does imply that God can grant exceptions here. I think that the idea of rich person needs to be unpacked a little too, I don't think having money precludes you from heaven, I think the rich person here is someone who hold material possessions above spiritual growth. The question was brought up what about the pope, he's rich, and I think sure he is, clearly he is also a spiritual and 'good' man. As I say I think all of the beatitudes are pointers to how we can think and be to have a spiritual life in the here and now, rather than this idea of a heaven when we die. I also think your spiritual growth is inherently personal and how far you go and how you grow is very much between you and god™
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The Lost One
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Post by The Lost One on Feb 2, 2022 20:55:41 GMT
The question was brought up what about the pope, he's rich, and I think sure he is, clearly he is also a spiritual and 'good' man. I dunno, he has his good points certainly but I think a truly good person would feel uncomfortable with the absurd wealth of the Vatican while poverty exists. I imagine he has to jump through some cognitive dissonance hoops to justify his wealth to himself. Yeah, I think there's something to that interpretation. |
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Post by gadreel on Feb 2, 2022 22:50:23 GMT
The question was brought up what about the pope, he's rich, and I think sure he is, clearly he is also a spiritual and 'good' man. I dunno, he has his good points certainly but I think a truly good person would feel uncomfortable with the absurd wealth of the Vatican while poverty exists. I imagine he has to jump through some cognitive dissonance hoops to justify his wealth to himself. Yeah, I think there's something to that interpretation. Apparently he donates a lot of his salary, I dont know what real power he has over vatican money though. My personal belief is that Jesus was a spiritual teacher, not a religious one.
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Post by Admin on Feb 2, 2022 23:05:09 GMT
My personal belief is that Jesus was a spiritual teacher, not a religious one. Given that Jesus was anti-religion, that should be a bit more than mere personal belief.
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The Lost One
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Post by The Lost One on Feb 2, 2022 23:36:55 GMT
Apparently he donates a lot of his salary, I dont know what real power he has over vatican money though. Maybe he doesn't, but he could use his position of authority to denounce the massive wealth disparity. Could have quite the ripple effect! |
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Post by gadreel on Feb 3, 2022 23:53:36 GMT
My personal belief is that Jesus was a spiritual teacher, not a religious one. Given that Jesus was anti-religion, that should be a bit more than mere personal belief. Oh hahaha, yeah I mean of course, I guess I am really driving at the fact that a lot of what he taught can be read as a nice way to live your life (which is often how organised religion frames it) , however looking deeper I feel like he was really teaching how to advance spriritually
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Post by gadreel on Feb 3, 2022 23:55:18 GMT
Apparently he donates a lot of his salary, I dont know what real power he has over vatican money though. Maybe he doesn't, but he could use his position of authority to denounce the massive wealth disparity. Could have quite the ripple effect! Yeah agreed. There is this funny thing though, at least in the Anglican church , they are not as rich as everyone thinks, a lot of the wealth is tied up in land that the churches are on and so actually it costs to maintain those land parcels. It may be different for the Catholic church, im honestly not sure.
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Post by gadreel on Feb 3, 2022 23:58:53 GMT
I think that the idea of rich person needs to be unpacked a little too, I don't think having money precludes you from heaven, I think the rich person here is someone who hold material possessions above spiritual growth. The question was brought up what about the pope, he's rich, and I think sure he is, clearly he is also a spiritual and 'good' man. As I say I think all of the beatitudes are pointers to how we can think and be to have a spiritual life in the here and now, rather than this idea of a heaven when we die. I also think your spiritual growth is inherently personal and how far you go and how you grow is very much between you and god™
Think about??? Thats great material to flagellate to, my spiritual nipples are rock hard. Perhaps, I think we all are on the process, if those spirits still need to work on themselves they will be back.
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Post by Admin on Feb 4, 2022 0:02:43 GMT
Given that Jesus was anti-religion, that should be a bit more than mere personal belief. Oh hahaha, yeah I mean of course, I guess I am really driving at the fact that a lot of what he taught can be read as a nice way to live your life (which is often how organised religion frames it) , however looking deeper I feel like he was really teaching how to advance spriritually Somebody posted this here once upon a time. I thought it was kinda cool, so I bookmarked it:
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Post by gadreel on Feb 4, 2022 0:06:52 GMT
Think about??? Thats great material to flagellate to, my spiritual nipples are rock hard. Perhaps, I think we all are on the process, if those spirits still need to work on themselves they will be back.What makes you think they went anywhere? And wow, I never gave anyone an orgasm just using my intellect before. 😘 The word sacrificed, I just read it as thrown into a volcano like we sacrifice all virgins and star trek fans.
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Post by gadreel on Feb 4, 2022 4:11:03 GMT
The word sacrificed, I just read it as thrown into a volcano like we sacrifice all virgins and star trek fans. What was sending our troops into fake wars (the Smoking Gun) or prolonging one (the Tet Offensive) because wars are good for American economy and its military-industrial-complex? If that’s not human sacrifice, I don’t know what is. You use a parochial version of human sacrifice that savages practiced in the deep in past, when Nazi Germany was the biggest Human Sacrifice Machine…to their God of Aryan purity…in history. I mean I was being a but facetious, however all the examples you give are people dying, so my assumption that they went somewhere seems to stand. I mean I know that sacrifice can be something other than death just to be clear
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Post by Admin on Feb 4, 2022 4:25:44 GMT
I mean I was being a but facetious, however all the examples you give are people dying, so my assumption that they went somewhere seems to stand. I mean I know that sacrifice can be something other than death just to be clear
I know you are, but I'm dead serious. We practice human sacrifice on the daily basis. That our moral leaders long ago understood how humans cannot help but be predators, ie, sinners, in order to survive, inspirited the Christian Salvation theory. Being covered by the blood of Jesus "hides" man's sins to God. lol
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Post by Admin on Feb 4, 2022 4:33:59 GMT
Think about it. The message is right there in the Bible. Is that why you put "hide" in quotes?
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Post by Admin on Feb 4, 2022 4:54:40 GMT
Who are these guys who think that by covering yourself with blood, you are "hiding" your sins from God? And besides, wouldn't it be easier to cover his eyes instead? Seems like that would be much more efficient. Unless I'm overlooking something, none of those verses say what you just said.
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Post by Admin on Feb 4, 2022 5:18:47 GMT
Who are these guys who think that by covering yourself with blood, you are "hiding" your sins from God? And besides, wouldn't it be easier to cover his eyes instead? Seems like that would be much more efficient. Unless I'm overlooking something, none of those verses say what you just said. It is part of some Protestant denominations' theology that once a person is saved, any future sins will be covered by the blood of Jesus. You will die a sinner, but the blood of Jesus will cover up the offending sins from Most High Righteous God, who cannot have anything imperfect or sinful in his presence so you may enter the Kingdom of Heaven. The RCC handles this conundrum using the doctrine of Purgatory, where the sinner has his/her imperfections and sins burned away before entering the Chorus of the Saints. Anyone who makes it to Heaven is automatically a saint and saints must be perfect. One of the key principles of Christianity, if not the key principle, is personal accountability. If 'those guys' are saying you have to don the proverbial fig leaf to keep God from seeing your private parts, or even that you can, I'd appreciate not being boxed up with them. Thanks.
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