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Post by Aj_June on Jan 30, 2022 10:00:10 GMT
Can anyone explain the context?
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Post by gadreel on Jan 30, 2022 10:52:35 GMT
The Beatitudes are the qualities you have to enter the kingdom of heaven.
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Post by rizdek on Jan 30, 2022 14:37:04 GMT
Every site gives some long laborious highfalutin explanation, but truth be told it was propaganda, pure and simple.
First, I'm not convinced Jesus personally said any of this. These were likely words/sermons put in the mouth of Jesus years after he died. But the people the writers of the gospels were trying to impress wanted these pheasants think Jesus was supposed to have been preaching to those low on the totem pole and under the thumb of Roman rule. These folks didn't have much choice but TO be meek. So the point of the propaganda was to encourage them to glom onto a cult that would make them feel good about their station in life and that at some point in the future all this submitting to the rule of a foreign govt would serve them well. They would inherit the world. It's the ancient version of 'free beer tomorrow' if you just wait in this line a bit longer. But unlike the free beer tomorrow salesman, these promoters knew they never had to deliver on their promise because you would have to die to win your inheritance.
And perhaps those promoting this didn't even know it was snake oil at the time...they may have believed they were going to inherit the world too.
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Post by OpiateOfTheMasses on Jan 30, 2022 23:13:47 GMT
I believe it's actually a misquote and he was actually saying "blessed are the cheesemakers".
This wasn't meant to be taken literally as solely cheesemakers, but anyone involved in the dairy industry. Probably. But the truth is we can't be sure.
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Post by Admin on Jan 30, 2022 23:29:21 GMT
Can anyone explain the context? "It was through pride that the devil became the devil: Pride leads to every other vice: it is the complete anti-God state of mind." -CS Lewis, Mere Christianity
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Hnefahogg
Sophomore
@hnefahogg
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Post by Hnefahogg on Jan 31, 2022 8:12:14 GMT
- Matthew Henry's Concise Commentary
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Post by Sarge on Jan 31, 2022 8:38:16 GMT
It was left out of the Sermon on the Plain so we can ignore it.
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Post by Stammerhead on Jan 31, 2022 14:56:48 GMT
They get to have the Earth after everyone else has used it.  |
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The Lost One
Junior Member
@lostkiera
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Post by The Lost One on Jan 31, 2022 16:41:18 GMT
It's possible he is referring to the slave population which would have been very large in his day and to his fellow people oppressed and displaced by the Romans in Galilee where Jesus did most of his preaching. Galilee was not a Roman province at the time Jesus supposedly preached there. Though it would have been by the time Matthew's Gospel was written so this could be an example of projecting a feeling at the time into the past where it was less appropriate. Or it could be equally applicable to those oppressed by Herod Antipas. Forgetting about the political context, it fits with Jesus' ethics in general - turn the other cheek, better to pluck your eye out than look at a woman with lust, do not seek wealth etc. The perfect person for Jesus is someone who does not retaliate and is not driven by desires: the patient, forgiving, contented person. If everyone were like this, the Kingdom of God would essentially exist on Earth. Therefore I don't think this was definitely the cynical commandment some think - "act meek and you'll get into Heaven". It could be interpreted as those who are meek are already what will be the typical of all when the Kingdom of God arrives.
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Post by Admin on Jan 31, 2022 23:58:42 GMT
One doesn't need to be poor to be meek. He didn't say it was impossible for a rich man to enter heaven, and I'm fairly certain he wasn't referring to defeating enemies in battle.
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Post by gadreel on Feb 1, 2022 2:40:24 GMT
One doesn't need to be poor to be meek. He didn't say it was impossible for a rich man to enter heaven, and I'm fairly certain he wasn't referring to defeating enemies in battle. It's harder for a rich man to enter heaven than for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle, that is another way of saying that a rich man cannot enter heaven, unless you have a large blender. But I believe the beatitudes are best interpreted as a spiritual instruction not a doctrine one.
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Post by gadreel on Feb 1, 2022 2:46:19 GMT
I think that the beatitudes have nothing to do with politics or earthly information, I think Augustine has it right, the whole thing is a guide on the temperament, and mental outlook required for spiritual growth, the kingdom of heaven in this context often means the spiritual kingdom, not a physical after death realm, at least that is the interpretation I feel is closest to the intention of the writing catholicgnosis.wordpress.com/2020/10/19/augustine-beatitudes/ |
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Post by mikef6 on Feb 1, 2022 3:26:11 GMT
I find humility means to be hurt.
It's not the Earth the meek inherit
It's the dirt.
- From Mordred's song, The Seven Deadly Virtues, from "Camelot"
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Post by Admin on Feb 1, 2022 5:15:21 GMT
One doesn't need to be poor to be meek. He didn't say it was impossible for a rich man to enter heaven, and I'm fairly certain he wasn't referring to defeating enemies in battle. It's harder for a rich man to enter heaven than for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle, that is another way of saying that a rich man cannot enter heaven, unless you have a large blender. But I believe the beatitudes are best interpreted as a spiritual instruction not a doctrine one. I suppose a rich man would have more difficulty letting go of his earthly possessions than, say, a bum on the street with nothing but the clothes on his back and a toothpick, but the word "meek" does not refer to wealth or power.
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Post by gadreel on Feb 1, 2022 5:32:36 GMT
It's harder for a rich man to enter heaven than for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle, that is another way of saying that a rich man cannot enter heaven, unless you have a large blender. But I believe the beatitudes are best interpreted as a spiritual instruction not a doctrine one. I suppose a rich man would have more difficulty letting go of his earthly possessions than, say, a bum on the street with nothing but the clothes on his back and a toothpick, but the word "meek" does not refer to wealth or power. I'm commenting specifically on your claim that Jesus did not say it was impossible for a rich man to enter heaven, the camel through an eye of the needle thing is another way of saying 'when pigs fly'.
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Post by Admin on Feb 1, 2022 5:45:16 GMT
I suppose a rich man would have more difficulty letting go of his earthly possessions than, say, a bum on the street with nothing but the clothes on his back and a toothpick, but the word "meek" does not refer to wealth or power. I'm commenting specifically on your claim that Jesus did not say it was impossible for a rich man to enter heaven, the camel through an eye of the needle thing is another way of saying 'when pigs fly'. And I was commenting on some things that were said in this thread. At any rate, if taken literally, then he was indeed saying that it's impossible for a rich man to enter heaven. However, being a subjective term, that opens up a whole new level of discussion that Jesus addressed when asked who, then, can enter heaven: "With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible." And not for nothing, but if rich men can't get in, the Pope is doomed.
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Post by gadreel on Feb 1, 2022 16:51:44 GMT
I'm commenting specifically on your claim that Jesus did not say it was impossible for a rich man to enter heaven, the camel through an eye of the needle thing is another way of saying 'when pigs fly'. And I was commenting on some things that were said in this thread. At any rate, if taken literally, then he was indeed saying that it's impossible for a rich man to enter heaven. However, being a subjective term, that opens up a whole new level of discussion that Jesus addressed when asked who, then, can enter heaven: "With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible." And not for nothing, but if rich men can't get in, the Pope is doomed. I dont normally read every post on a thread, so the context not related to our conversation is lost on me.
There are a couple of interpretations to be fair, the most likely being that camel actually means thick rope which would essentially mean the same thing in terms of possibility
Is the Pope rich? 2.5M net worth. Ok he is rich I guess, he does not seem to use it though, and he seems to demonstrate some spirituality, his entry to the kingdom of heaven is something between him and God™
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Post by Admin on Feb 1, 2022 20:41:50 GMT
And I was commenting on some things that were said in this thread. At any rate, if taken literally, then he was indeed saying that it's impossible for a rich man to enter heaven. However, being a subjective term, that opens up a whole new level of discussion that Jesus addressed when asked who, then, can enter heaven: "With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible." And not for nothing, but if rich men can't get in, the Pope is doomed. I dont normally read every post on a thread, so the context not related to our conversation is lost on me.
There are a couple of interpretations to be fair, the most likely being that camel actually means thick rope which would essentially mean the same thing in terms of possibility
Is the Pope rich? 2.5M net worth. Ok he is rich I guess, he does not seem to use it though, and he seems to demonstrate some spirituality, his entry to the kingdom of heaven is something between him and God™ Why is the Pope’s entry between him and God, but everyone else’s depends on their bank account? |
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Post by gadreel on Feb 1, 2022 21:53:48 GMT
I dont normally read every post on a thread, so the context not related to our conversation is lost on me.
There are a couple of interpretations to be fair, the most likely being that camel actually means thick rope which would essentially mean the same thing in terms of possibility
Is the Pope rich? 2.5M net worth. Ok he is rich I guess, he does not seem to use it though, and he seems to demonstrate some spirituality, his entry to the kingdom of heaven is something between him and God™ Why is the Pope’s entry between him and God, but everyone else’s depends on their bank account? Everyone's entry is between them and God™ I think Jesus was just giving guidelines, not issuing passes.
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Post by Admin on Feb 1, 2022 22:27:27 GMT
Why is the Pope’s entry between him and God, but everyone else’s depends on their bank account? Everyone's entry is between them and God™ I think Jesus was just giving guidelines, not issuing passes. Sounds like you found a big enough blender after all. 
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