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Post by Admin on Feb 4, 2022 5:34:34 GMT
One of the key principles of Christianity, if not the key principle, is personal accountability. If 'those guys' are saying you have to don the proverbial fig leaf to keep God from seeing your private parts, or even that you can, I'd appreciate not being boxed up with them. Thanks. This has to do with being worthy to stand before God which is drawn from the Jewish theology of Righteousness. the OT is filled with passages on this subject. The 613 commandants to be a worthy to make sacrifices at the Temple was to facilitate this. However, in Judaism, the person who wrong another human being must personally ask for their forgiveness before they can properly atone on Yom Kippur. A sin is a sin. The person who told a small lie that is unforgiven by God, will burn in the same Hellfire as Adolf Hitler. I'm having difficulty believing you thought I was Jewish, and you can't ask for someone's forgiveness if they don't know what you're asking to them forgive you for. Like it or not, the fig leaf is futile when you stand before someone who sees right through it. Someone should probably tell the Jews not to lie to God.
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Post by gadreel on Feb 4, 2022 5:38:21 GMT
I mean I was being a but facetious, however all the examples you give are people dying, so my assumption that they went somewhere seems to stand. I mean I know that sacrifice can be something other than death just to be clear
I know you are, but I'm dead serious. We practice human sacrifice on the daily basis. That our moral leaders long ago understood how humans cannot help but be predators, ie, sinners, in order to survive, inspirited the Christian Salvation theory. Being covered by the blood of Jesus "hides" man's sins to God. Yeah I mean the most dangerous animal is man. I feel like this is just another example of how far the religious organisations have become removed from the intent of Jesus ( I guess that presumes that my take on his intent is accurate so that might be an issue), I don't think Jesus ever intended people to be able to just wash away their sins, in fact that is in a large part what Anton LaVey says inspired the church of satan. Of course there is another interpretation to the life of Jesus, that it is a description of the mystic path, and the crucifixion and washing of sins is the metaphorical death and rebirth into a life in spiritual awareness. Of course that is not even remotely how the church views it, still it seems like a nice idea that jesus was not saying hey I saved you, he was saying hey here is a way to save yoruself.
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Post by gadreel on Feb 4, 2022 5:41:42 GMT
Who are these guys who think that by covering yourself with blood, you are "hiding" your sins from God? And besides, wouldn't it be easier to cover his eyes instead? Seems like that would be much more efficient. Unless I'm overlooking something, none of those verses say what you just said. The verses might not, but that is the (accidental?) teaching of the confession, this is what inspired the Satanic Church, LaVey saw all these fair goers banging hookers on saturday night and getting forgiveness with their families the next day, then just rinse and repeat because confession wipes the slate clean (I also am not sure the sin is hidden from god or that covered in a synonym for hidden in this case, but certainly these people were behaving as if it was)
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Post by Admin on Feb 4, 2022 5:50:44 GMT
Who are these guys who think that by covering yourself with blood, you are "hiding" your sins from God? And besides, wouldn't it be easier to cover his eyes instead? Seems like that would be much more efficient. Unless I'm overlooking something, none of those verses say what you just said. The verses might not, but that is the (accidental?) teaching of the confession, this is what inspired the Satanic Church, LaVey saw all these fair goers banging hookers on saturday night and getting forgiveness with their families the next day, then just rinse and repeat because confession wipes the slate clean (I also am not sure the sin is hidden from god or that covered in a synonym for hidden in this case, but certainly these people were behaving as if it was) I never received the teaching of confession, so I guess I'm hosed. Say, to whom do the priests confess?
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Post by Admin on Feb 4, 2022 6:11:21 GMT
I'm having difficulty believing you thought I was Jewish, and you can't ask for someone's forgiveness if they don't know what you're asking to them forgive you for. Like it or not, the fig leaf is futile when you stand before someone who sees right through it. Someone should probably tell the Jews not to lie to God. I'm using the hypothetical you and I see you are trying to pick a fight because something I wrote upsets you. I'm not trying to pick a fight, I'm not upset, and I'm not reading the rest of your post now that you're being such a Paul. I knew I should have kept ignoring you.
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Post by gadreel on Feb 4, 2022 6:12:32 GMT
The verses might not, but that is the (accidental?) teaching of the confession, this is what inspired the Satanic Church, LaVey saw all these fair goers banging hookers on saturday night and getting forgiveness with their families the next day, then just rinse and repeat because confession wipes the slate clean (I also am not sure the sin is hidden from god or that covered in a synonym for hidden in this case, but certainly these people were behaving as if it was) I never received the teaching of confession, so I guess I'm hosed. Say, to whom do the priests confess? Perhaps I should have used the implication of the confession. Confession wipes away your sins,so surely one can simply sin and then go to confession. In fact a lot of young catholics I know just sin and figure they will repent when they want to settle down. Priests confess to priests. The priest is the conduit to god, so no one really confesses to a priest, they confess to a priest who is at that time god. (this is directly from a the Catholic priest of the school my daughter goes to)
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Post by Admin on Feb 4, 2022 6:20:12 GMT
I never received the teaching of confession, so I guess I'm hosed. Say, to whom do the priests confess? Perhaps I should have used the implication of the confession. Confession wipes away your sins,so surely one can simply sin and then go to confession. In fact a lot of young catholics I know just sin and figure they will repent when they want to settle down.Priests confess to priests. The priest is the conduit to god, so no one really confesses to a priest, they confess to a priest who is at that time god. (this is directly from a the Catholic priest of the school my daughter goes to) Wouldn't that be taking God for granted? Doesn't seem like the best of ideas to consider His forgiveness a license to sin. I'm not sure I understand. Is your daughter is being taught that she needs a human conduit to God, or that the guy in the booth is God Himself?
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Post by gadreel on Feb 4, 2022 6:44:30 GMT
Perhaps I should have used the implication of the confession. Confession wipes away your sins,so surely one can simply sin and then go to confession. In fact a lot of young catholics I know just sin and figure they will repent when they want to settle down.Priests confess to priests. The priest is the conduit to god, so no one really confesses to a priest, they confess to a priest who is at that time god. (this is directly from a the Catholic priest of the school my daughter goes to) I'm not sure I understand. Is your daughter is being taught that she needs a human conduit to God, or that the guy in the booth is God Himself? The Priest is the person of Christ (God) during the process of confession, that's Catholic canon "Like all of the Sacraments it is a personal encounter with Jesus. In Confession we are telling our sins to the priest who acts in the person of Christ and with the authority of Jesus to listen, offer guidance, provide a suitable penance, and speak the words of absolution.
You seem to be implying I approve somehow, this is literally the dumbest thing I have ever heard in terms of how one might get saved.
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Post by gadreel on Feb 4, 2022 6:46:23 GMT
Perhaps I should have used the implication of the confession. Confession wipes away your sins,so surely one can simply sin and then go to confession. In fact a lot of young catholics I know just sin and figure they will repent when they want to settle down. Priests confess to priests. The priest is the conduit to god, so no one really confesses to a priest, they confess to a priest who is at that time god. (this is directly from a the Catholic priest of the school my daughter goes to) I think you bring up a good point how despite the Bible, in the both the new and the old, is crystal clear about sin and the perfection one needs to enter Heaven, but there are numerous versions that interpret it many different ways. Actually, when and how a person is saved or not has caused some of the biggest schisms in Christianity. I feel like I should say "yeah honestly it's a minefield" but I think you and I agree on that. I have an interesting history with the church, I now find it very hard to trust priests, and I cannot think of any way in which the God I believe i would require me to confess to those duplicitous fuckwoppers.
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Post by Admin on Feb 4, 2022 6:59:28 GMT
I'm not sure I understand. Is your daughter is being taught that she needs a human conduit to God, or that the guy in the booth is God Himself? The Priest is the person of Christ (God) during the process of confession, that's Catholic canon "Like all of the Sacraments it is a personal encounter with Jesus. In Confession we are telling our sins to the priest who acts in the person of Christ and with the authority of Jesus to listen, offer guidance, provide a suitable penance, and speak the words of absolution. You seem to be implying I approve somehow, this is literally the dumbest thing I have ever heard in terms of how one might get saved.
A priest is just another man, no closer to God than you, me, or the wino in the back alley. Ditto for the Pope and all ranks in between. I didn't come here to pick a fight with Paul or imply anything about you personally, but since, like Paul, you're reading that into my posts anyway, I'll be on my merry way before it gets worse. Good talk.
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Post by gadreel on Feb 4, 2022 6:59:55 GMT
I feel like I should say "yeah honestly it's a minefield" but I think you and I agree on that. I have an interesting history with the church, I now find it very hard to trust priests, and I cannot think of any way in which the God I believe i would require me to confess to those duplicitous fuckwoppers. This thread started out asking what blessed are the meek passage means...and then the OP abandoned the thread...and you nailed it with: The Beatitudes are the qualities you have to enter the kingdom of heaven. And here is the whole list of instructions Jesus laid out. One can't just read the first few lines, but the entire sermon. aww you said I nailed it, and here was me thinking you thought I was a bit of an idiot.
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Post by gadreel on Feb 4, 2022 7:01:48 GMT
The Priest is the person of Christ (God) during the process of confession, that's Catholic canon "Like all of the Sacraments it is a personal encounter with Jesus. In Confession we are telling our sins to the priest who acts in the person of Christ and with the authority of Jesus to listen, offer guidance, provide a suitable penance, and speak the words of absolution. You seem to be implying I approve somehow, this is literally the dumbest thing I have ever heard in terms of how one might get saved.
A priest is just another man, no closer to God than you, me, or the wino in the back alley. Ditto for the Pope and all ranks in between. I didn't come here to pick a fight with Paul or imply anything about you personally, but since, like Paul, you're reading that into my posts anyway, I'll be on my merry way before it gets worse. Good talk. I dont know how you could imply I thought you were picking a fight, I was simply commenting that you seemed to think that somehow I approved of this setup, perhaps I misinterpreted. That is not the doctrine of the Catholic Church.
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Post by gadreel on Feb 4, 2022 17:37:59 GMT
I dont know how you could imply I thought you were picking a fight, I was simply commenting that you seemed to think that somehow I approved of this setup, perhaps I misinterpreted. That is not the doctrine of the Catholic Church.
The priests are not just another man. The sacrament of ordination is a singular one that was...according to the Catholic Church, and not me, as the apostolic succession...initiated by the first priest Jesus and passed forward in an unbroke anointing to St Peter to the apostles to the church bishops to the priests. In a way, the priest's hands are Jesus' hands. When a person confesses to a priest, he is confessing to Jesus and Jesus is giving the absolution. I feel like you meant to reply to Admin?? I mean I agree to everything you said
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Post by Zos on Feb 5, 2022 14:03:49 GMT
What if they don't want it but don't want to make a fuss?
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Post by NJtoTX on Feb 24, 2022 9:16:09 GMT
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Post by Sarge on Feb 25, 2022 7:23:57 GMT
It's in there to make wimps feel like they have something to gain by joining Judaism 2.0
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