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Post by Skaathar on Oct 11, 2022 18:17:15 GMT
Pretty sure it was limited only to the Avengers. It basically made the Avengers into the strike force of the UN. Like Cap said, the UN would then be able to tell them where to go and not to go, what to do and not to do. General Ross clarified that if someone didn't wish to sign it, then they can retire (presumably from being an Avenger). And since neither Daredevil, She-Hulk nor Frogman (or whatever his name is) were ever part of the Avengers, I don't know how the Sokovia accords would have affected them one way or another. Maybe it was opened up to all heroes but only if they joined up with the Avengers. Otherwise they'd just be vigilantes, punishable by law for whatever infractions they occur. Just looked it up, it covers all enhanced individuals. Makes more sense this way, why make an international law that only covers a small group of individuals, as opposed to a blanket law for everyone? Anyway it doesn't matter, since it's gone now. Provided this is the official statement (and not just a fansite interpretation), then I stand corrected. Though I'd take that article with a grain of salt since it lists Tony Stark as both pro and anti Sokovia Accords. Even lists Rhodey, Vision and T'Challa as anti-registration. I have a feeling this site is taking a few liberties with their interpretation of the Accords. But let's say the article is correct and the Sokovia Accords do include every single enhanced individual. Dang, it would make much less sense that way (and Tony Stark's stance would be a lot more questionable). The UN enforcing control over the whereabouts and the actions of each Avenger kinda made sense, seeing as the Avengers were a well-known and public-facing superhero group who generally tackled world-ending level threats. They didn't retain secret identities and they didn't meddle in fighting small crime (like preventing bank robberies and such). The Sokovia Accords would curtail the freedom of the Avengers but it also legitimized them and gave them the support of the entire UN, which makes sense since it's fairly obvious that humanity needed them and owed them a great debt. But to apply the same thing to every small-time vigilante? Why? The governments of the world don't need them. It's not like they regularly save the human race. And regular laws should be sufficient to keep them in check. Break the law, get punished by the law. If the Accords covered all superheroes then pretty much any enhanced individual who signed the Accords would have been deputized and given authority by the UN to act as enforcers. They'd also need to be able to keep track and dictate the actions and whereabouts of every single individual. That's one hell of a clusterfuck. But whatever, like you said it doesn't matter now. Though I would have thought a change as big as this in the MCU canon deserved more than a throwaway line in a She-Hulk episode.
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Post by Rey Kahuka on Oct 11, 2022 22:24:19 GMT
Just looked it up, it covers all enhanced individuals. Makes more sense this way, why make an international law that only covers a small group of individuals, as opposed to a blanket law for everyone? Anyway it doesn't matter, since it's gone now. Provided this is the official statement (and not just a fansite interpretation), then I stand corrected. Though I'd take that article with a grain of salt since it lists Tony Stark as both pro and anti Sokovia Accords. Even lists Rhodey, Vision and T'Challa as anti-registration. I have a feeling this site is taking a few liberties with their interpretation of the Accords. But let's say the article is correct and the Sokovia Accords do include every single enhanced individual. Dang, it would make much less sense that way (and Tony Stark's stance would be a lot more questionable). The UN enforcing control over the whereabouts and the actions of each Avenger kinda made sense, seeing as the Avengers were a well-known and public-facing superhero group who generally tackled world-ending level threats. They didn't retain secret identities and they didn't meddle in fighting small crime (like preventing bank robberies and such). The Sokovia Accords would curtail the freedom of the Avengers but it also legitimized them and gave them the support of the entire UN, which makes sense since it's fairly obvious that humanity needed them and owed them a great debt. But to apply the same thing to every small-time vigilante? Why? The governments of the world don't need them. It's not like they regularly save the human race. And regular laws should be sufficient to keep them in check. Break the law, get punished by the law. If the Accords covered all superheroes then pretty much any enhanced individual who signed the Accords would have been deputized and given authority by the UN to act as enforcers. They'd also need to be able to keep track and dictate the actions and whereabouts of every single individual. That's one hell of a clusterfuck. But whatever, like you said it doesn't matter now. Though I would have thought a change as big as this in the MCU canon deserved more than a throwaway line in a She-Hulk episode. It lists examples of plot points and direct references to the accords from MCU tv shows (across multiple networks) and films that are very specific in nature. For example, from an episode of Agents of SHIELD: I think the logical conclusion is that there is much more to the Accords than what directly affects the Avengers. Enhanced individuals are potentially walking WMDs. The Accords are a set of rules for any supe who thinks they can walk into a war zone or a bustling metropolis across the globe and raise hell. The movies weren't going to bother showing random capes registering or whatever, because it was irrelevant to the plot. Frankly, it would be insane for the Accords not to cover all enhanced individuals. Regarding your third paragraph, all I can say is "Welcome to government!" Name an aspect of your modern life that isn't bogged down by bureaucracy from time to time and have you completely at their whim. You better believe they'd rather have these guys on a list and on a leash than roaming free. They don't even have to use them, just sign them up and put them on a shelf, or send them to do some shady stuff and write them off when things go sideways. This is exactly what Cap was talking about. Since when does a military not need expendable assets? To your point, something as important to the greater MCU narrative should not have been dismissed in a single line of dialog on a show nobody is watching. I'm glad the accords are history, but this really should've been handled in a Cap storyline.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2022 3:29:27 GMT
I wonder… if this show didn’t have the Marvel brand attached to it, or the “prestige” of being a streeeeaming series, if it was, instead, an original series on basic cable with the exact same scripts, production value and quality, would anyone be watching it or talking about it?
I often wonder the same question about other IPs on streeeemers: Star Wars, Marvel, Lord of the Rings.
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Post by havenless on Oct 12, 2022 11:33:11 GMT
I wonder… if this show didn’t have the Marvel brand attached to it, or the “prestige” of being a streeeeaming series, if it was, instead, an original series on basic cable with the exact same scripts, production value and quality, would anyone be watching it or talking about it? I often wonder the same question about other IPs on streeeemers: Star Wars, Marvel, Lord of the Rings. I think those series’s get overly bashed because they have such high expectations. Force Awakens I think is a perfect example of this. It’s not a particularly bad movie, but a lot of the gripes people have with it is how it specifically fits into the Star Wars canon: what it does with certain characters, what it retreads, and how it uses the force. If that were a standalone movie with no baggage of previous franchise failures, people would the instead say, “did you see that crazy movie that came out about planets shooting other planets and the big hologram guy?” She-Hulk isn’t the best show in the world, but a good bit of the online negativity is about how they’re mishandling the Hulk, or how Daredevil wasn’t in every episode, She-Hulk CGI doesn’t equal that of 300m$ blockbusters that came before, or that it’s another comedic entry into the once more serious MCU. Strip all that way and it’s a tongue-in-cheek romp on the genre that probably appeals to women more than men and has more than a little self-deprecation. Things that the MCU isn’t accustomed to
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Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2022 17:45:38 GMT
I wonder… if this show didn’t have the Marvel brand attached to it, or the “prestige” of being a streeeeaming series, if it was, instead, an original series on basic cable with the exact same scripts, production value and quality, would anyone be watching it or talking about it? I often wonder the same question about other IPs on streeeemers: Star Wars, Marvel, Lord of the Rings. I think those series’s get overly bashed because they have such high expectations. Force Awakens I think is a perfect example of this. It’s not a particularly bad movie, but a lot of the gripes people have with it is how it specifically fits into the Star Wars canon: what it does with certain characters, what it retreads, and how it uses the force. If that were a standalone movie with no baggage of previous franchise failures, people would the instead say, “did you see that crazy movie that came out about planets shooting other planets and the big hologram guy?” She-Hulk isn’t the best show in the world, but a good bit of the online negativity is about how they’re mishandling the Hulk, or how Daredevil wasn’t in every episode, She-Hulk CGI doesn’t equal that of 300m$ blockbusters that came before, or that it’s another comedic entry into the once more serious MCU. Strip all that way and it’s a tongue-in-cheek romp on the genre that probably appeals to women more than men and has more than a little self-deprecation. Things that the MCU isn’t accustomed to Certainly there is truth to this as well. I gotta say though- I think The Force Awakens benefited a lot from being a Star Wars movie. So many fans wanted to like it, myself included. It’s difficult to imagine it as a stand alone movie because all it really does is desperately try to recreate the original movie.
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Post by Skaathar on Oct 12, 2022 18:10:38 GMT
I wonder… if this show didn’t have the Marvel brand attached to it, or the “prestige” of being a streeeeaming series, if it was, instead, an original series on basic cable with the exact same scripts, production value and quality, would anyone be watching it or talking about it? I often wonder the same question about other IPs on streeeemers: Star Wars, Marvel, Lord of the Rings. It would have been completely trashed, or maybe flew completely under the radar and been forgotten. Almost all the positive things in this show are related to the MCU in some way: 1. $25 million budget per episode is only doable because of how successful the MCU is, especially when you consider that each episode is only 25 minutes long. How many sitcoms do you know of that gets a $1 million per minute budget? 2. Name recognition of She-Hulk is only available because She-Hulk has been a fan favorite of Marvel comics readers. 3. Multiple MCU cameos are only doable because it's part of the MCU... and this show is highly dependent on those cameos to breathe life into the episodes. Think about it: What's left of this show if you remove Hulk, Blonsky, Wong and Daredevil from it? 4. Easter eggs and in-universe impact/continuity (which is a big reason why a number of people watch this) is also only applicable because it's part of the MCU. 5. Hardcore MCU fans watch and defend the show because it's the MCU. Assign a different studio behind it and you immediately lose millions of existing fans and you'll need to garner views based on the quality of the show. Outside of that, only Tatiana Maslany brings anything positive to the show. There's barely any plot, minimal fight scenes, characters are extremely 1-dimensional, writing is riddled with holes, and even the humor is quite lacking. To be perfectly honest, all of the MCU D+ shows would be rated a lot lower had they not been connected to the MCU in some way.
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Post by novastar6 on Oct 13, 2022 5:19:42 GMT
What exactly was the point of this show?
There's FAR more substance in the videos pointing out everything WRONG with it.
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Post by politicidal on Oct 13, 2022 16:40:16 GMT
"...According to She-Hulk head writer Jessica Gao, the series was approached as a story that would only last one season because there was “no guarantee” of a continuation. She-Hulk season 2 certainly hasn’t been ruled out, as both Gao and director Kat Coiro have been open to the possibility. Coiro claimed that the only person who knows She-Hulk’s future is Marvel Studios head Kevin Feige."
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Post by Skaathar on Oct 13, 2022 20:19:57 GMT
That finale, man... holy sh!t. I mean, I had my issues with this show before but they basically turned it into Loony Toons at this point. How Feige ever approved this show is beyond me.
I have defended MCU's humor for the longest time but completely turning your show into a joke is something else entirely.
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Post by Marv on Oct 13, 2022 21:29:22 GMT
That finale, man... holy sh!t. I mean, I had my issues with this show before but they basically turned it into Loony Toons at this point. How Feige ever approved this show is beyond me. I have defended MCU's humor for the longest time but completely turning your show into a joke is something else entirely. If this show were a mechanical bull, this finale finally bucked me off because I take almost nothing away from this show after that debacle. To write a crap show and then in the finale tell the audience that it’s a crap show, and magically replace all the plot lines with ones you like better just because. I mean it just feels like it’s making me (the viewer) out to be the schmuck in this situation for giving a crap about any of this. This is Andy Kaufman levels of trolling your own audience which is something I don’t think I’ll ever appreciate. I liked Tatiana Maslany, hope she remains and gets better writers and runners around her. Everything else feels like a waste of my time.
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Post by Skaathar on Oct 13, 2022 22:00:29 GMT
That finale, man... holy sh!t. I mean, I had my issues with this show before but they basically turned it into Loony Toons at this point. How Feige ever approved this show is beyond me. I have defended MCU's humor for the longest time but completely turning your show into a joke is something else entirely. If this show were a mechanical bull, this finale finally bucked me off because I take almost nothing away from this show after that debacle. To write a crap show and then in the finale tell the audience that it’s a crap show, and magically replace all the plot lines with ones you like better just because. I mean it just feels like it’s making me (the viewer) out to be the schmuck in this situation for giving a crap about any of this. This is Andy Kaufman levels of trolling your own audience which is something I don’t think I’ll ever appreciate. I liked Tatiana Maslany, hope she remains and gets better writers and runners around her. Everything else feels like a waste of my time. I feel like they wrote themselves into a corner and didn't know how to get out. They wrote all of these plot points, didn't properly address them throughout the season, and now they were under pressure to wrap all of them up in a single final episode. So what did they do? Use a 4th wall break to basically get out of having to write the finale.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 13, 2022 22:24:16 GMT
That finale, man... holy sh!t. I mean, I had my issues with this show before but they basically turned it into Loony Toons at this point. How Feige ever approved this show is beyond me. I have defended MCU's humor for the longest time but completely turning your show into a joke is something else entirely. If this show were a mechanical bull, this finale finally bucked me off because I take almost nothing away from this show after that debacle. To write a crap show and then in the finale tell the audience that it’s a crap show, and magically replace all the plot lines with ones you like better just because. I mean it just feels like it’s making me (the viewer) out to be the schmuck in this situation for giving a crap about any of this. This is Andy Kaufman levels of trolling your own audience which is something I don’t think I’ll ever appreciate. I liked Tatiana Maslany, hope she remains and gets better writers and runners around her. Everything else feels like a waste of my time. Holy shit, is that really what they do? Like- literally?
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Post by Archelaus on Oct 13, 2022 23:23:00 GMT
I haven't been posting in this thread, but episode 8 was a great episode mostly because of Charlie Cox and his chemistry with Tatiana Maslany. The mention of the Sokovia Accords being repealed was nice and I hope it gets expounded upon in some of the future films. Bringing revenge porn and slut-shaming into a female superhero series was a strong topic so I was hyped to see She-Hulk face off against Intelligencia.
Overall, the finale episode was a disappointment. I'm aware She-Hulk breaks the fourth wall in her own comics, but instead of it adding to the series, I felt it worked against it. Having She-Hulk break out of her own universe and rewrite her own episode took all the momentum of everything the series was building up. A final courtroom battle would have been nice considering this is a legal comedy. That said, I did like the opening recreation of the 1970s Incredible Hulk series. The A.I. program K.E.V.I.N. was fun and I noticed no actor was credited for supplying the voice. I wonder if they got the real Kevin Feige to play the part?
Seeing Skaar was nice so we might be seeing a World War Hulk series in the near future.
I'll admit if it wasn't a MCU series, I wouldn't care to watch the series. However, since it is, She-Hulk is a mixed bag of a sitcom compared to WandaVision and Loki. Tatiana Maslany was great, but the series needs better writers that understand how to make fourth-wall jokes that add and don't detract from the story or characters.
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Post by Marv on Oct 13, 2022 23:26:53 GMT
If this show were a mechanical bull, this finale finally bucked me off because I take almost nothing away from this show after that debacle. To write a crap show and then in the finale tell the audience that it’s a crap show, and magically replace all the plot lines with ones you like better just because. I mean it just feels like it’s making me (the viewer) out to be the schmuck in this situation for giving a crap about any of this. This is Andy Kaufman levels of trolling your own audience which is something I don’t think I’ll ever appreciate. I liked Tatiana Maslany, hope she remains and gets better writers and runners around her. Everything else feels like a waste of my time. I feel like they wrote themselves into a corner and didn't know how to get out. They wrote all of these plot points, didn't properly address them throughout the season, and now they were under pressure to wrap all of them up in a single final episode. So what did they do? Use a 4th wall break to basically get out of having to write the finale. More than that it just feels like they wrote a bad version of what they consider an MCU show to be just so at the end they could point out how bad it was and make fun of it, criticizing the MCU product in the process as being cookie cutter. But they had an opportunity here to actually write a good show and do something different breaking that formulaic mold wide open. But instead they just wrote down and then punched down and it all just felt like a wasted opportunity. Gao is Mud to me at the moment.
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Post by Marv on Oct 13, 2022 23:33:13 GMT
If this show were a mechanical bull, this finale finally bucked me off because I take almost nothing away from this show after that debacle. To write a crap show and then in the finale tell the audience that it’s a crap show, and magically replace all the plot lines with ones you like better just because. I mean it just feels like it’s making me (the viewer) out to be the schmuck in this situation for giving a crap about any of this. This is Andy Kaufman levels of trolling your own audience which is something I don’t think I’ll ever appreciate. I liked Tatiana Maslany, hope she remains and gets better writers and runners around her. Everything else feels like a waste of my time. Holy shit, is that really what they do? Like- literally? Pretty much. She busts through the 4th wall, enters the Disney lot, confronts the writers who claim it’s all up to Kevin. So she goes to meet Kevin who turns out to be an AI robot. She then compromises with him to ‘fix her finale’ by just erasing several plot threads they had created like the Intelligencia gaining Hulk blood and several other characters showing up in the finale and randomly gave herself a happy ending with Matt Murdock and a family barbecue. The big action in the finale was her fighting off security guards for not signing a Nondisclosure Agreement in the MCU office. It was certainly different. In the way that creamed corn as a pizza topping is different.
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Post by novastar6 on Oct 13, 2022 23:43:57 GMT
If this show were a mechanical bull, this finale finally bucked me off because I take almost nothing away from this show after that debacle. To write a crap show and then in the finale tell the audience that it’s a crap show, and magically replace all the plot lines with ones you like better just because. I mean it just feels like it’s making me (the viewer) out to be the schmuck in this situation for giving a crap about any of this. This is Andy Kaufman levels of trolling your own audience which is something I don’t think I’ll ever appreciate. I liked Tatiana Maslany, hope she remains and gets better writers and runners around her. Everything else feels like a waste of my time. I feel like they wrote themselves into a corner and didn't know how to get out. They wrote all of these plot points, didn't properly address them throughout the season, and now they were under pressure to wrap all of them up in a single final episode. So what did they do? Use a 4th wall break to basically get out of having to write the finale.
Gee, you'd think that that would be an easily foreseeable problem BEFORE you start. That's kind of why literally every other show on TV has a thing called CONTINUITY. I don't remember who because I've watched a LOT of 'She Hulk terrible' videos, but somebody pointed out there's no consistency, this week she's a bridesmaid, this week she's getting a new suit, blah blah blah. That was okay with the old 40s/50s sitcoms, this week George and Gracie get a visit by Mamie Kelly and her kids, this week George has to write a speech, this week the IRS man comes, but that's NOT how you write a super hero serial.
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Post by Skaathar on Oct 13, 2022 23:51:41 GMT
If this show were a mechanical bull, this finale finally bucked me off because I take almost nothing away from this show after that debacle. To write a crap show and then in the finale tell the audience that it’s a crap show, and magically replace all the plot lines with ones you like better just because. I mean it just feels like it’s making me (the viewer) out to be the schmuck in this situation for giving a crap about any of this. This is Andy Kaufman levels of trolling your own audience which is something I don’t think I’ll ever appreciate. I liked Tatiana Maslany, hope she remains and gets better writers and runners around her. Everything else feels like a waste of my time. Holy shit, is that really what they do? Like- literally? If you don't mind the spoilers: . . . .. . . . . . . Jen pretty much hits pause on the show just as the episode seems to be approaching climax and complains about how messy and crappy the finale feels. So she decides she's going to fix it which leads to her literally breaking the 4th wall and goes out into the real world, demands to see the writers and head executive of the show, tells them how terrible her finale is and demands that they rewrite it. Except they don't exactly rewrite it so much as they completely erase it. So she goes back to her "show universe" and everything is already resolved, without showing us how it was resolved.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 14, 2022 2:13:09 GMT
Holy shit, is that really what they do? Like- literally? Pretty much. She busts through the 4th wall, enters the Disney lot, confronts the writers who claim it’s all up to Kevin. So she goes to meet Kevin who turns out to be an AI robot. She then compromises with him to ‘fix her finale’ by just erasing several plot threads they had created like the Intelligencia gaining Hulk blood and several other characters showing up in the finale and randomly gave herself a happy ending with Matt Murdock and a family barbecue. The big action in the finale was her fighting off security guards for not signing a Nondisclosure Agreement in the MCU office. It was certainly different. In the way that creamed corn as a pizza topping is different. Wow.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 14, 2022 2:14:17 GMT
Holy shit, is that really what they do? Like- literally? If you don't mind the spoilers: . . . .. . . . . . . Jen pretty much hits pause on the show just as the episode seems to be approaching climax and complains about how messy and crappy the finale feels. So she decides she's going to fix it which leads to her literally breaking the 4th wall and goes out into the real world, demands to see the writers and head executive of the show, tells them how terrible her finale is and demands that they rewrite it. Except they don't exactly rewrite it so much as they completely erase it. So she goes back to her "show universe" and everything is already resolved, without showing us how it was resolved. Damn
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Post by Deleted on Oct 14, 2022 2:22:13 GMT
When Marvel announced they were doing tv shows on DisneyFlix I had a strong feeling it was the beginning of the end for the MCU. But this sounds like a new low I could have never anticipated.
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