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Post by Rey Kahuka on Nov 21, 2022 20:34:06 GMT
Maybe he was. Maybe he had to challenge whoever was the BP when he came back from the blip. It's irrelevant to the story, so they didn't bother showing us. I don't know man. Having a former deposed ruler of Wakanda around after T'Challa died is a very big thing. At the very least he/she should have been in contention for the throne after T'Challa passed away. As was just posted, nobody could become the Black Panther. Problem solved.
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Post by Skaathar on Nov 21, 2022 21:53:57 GMT
I don't know man. Having a former deposed ruler of Wakanda around after T'Challa died is a very big thing. At the very least he/she should have been in contention for the throne after T'Challa passed away. As was just posted, nobody could become the Black Panther. Problem solved. Not Black Panther but ruler of Wakanda. The Black Panther is not necessarily the ruler of Wakanda, merely its protector/champion.
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Post by Skaathar on Nov 21, 2022 21:55:25 GMT
Isn’t this the second time that T’Challa has died? He disappeared in the blip which everyone considered to be death. Why wasn’t he replaced then? Killmonger burned all the plant This was brought up in Wakanda Forever. Shuri has been trying to synthesis the plant, but kept failing until Namor gave her his mother's bracelet made from the plant that transformed his people. So even with T'Challa blipped 5 yrs, no one could become Black Panther. Mythology, dude. And if Shuri was blipped, there went 5 yrs trying to replace it. This explains why they don't have another Black Panther, not why they didn't have another king during the time when T'Challa disappeared in the blip.
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Post by merh on Nov 21, 2022 22:01:17 GMT
Huh. That's a very good point. I got it from this guy. He’s not bad. GOOD FUCKING GOD 51 minutes AND HE'S NOT DONE?! not to mention how much can he get wrong? Glass half empty/half full He is definitely looking at the glass spilled. He bitches about the length of the movie, yet he throws in clips of other movies so his review is going to be as long as Wakanda Forever & will be posted in 3 parts? When Bozeman died, Marvel floated a re-cast, but Black Twitter, etc. apparently came down on the side of it would be disrespectful so Marvel backed off the idea. So they send Shuri down T'Challa's vengeance path from Civil War. She is angry her brother didn't come to her to be treated. She is angry Killmonger burned all the sacred herb. She is angry & it feels like she doesn't want anyone to be Black Panther since her brother died. Wakanda isolated itself & survives off its own resources. They don't need to trade with the world. Sharing their tech with the world was T'Challa's idea of being nice. Ramonda doesn't share that vision. The AI bit felt like an old fart computers joke. Old Lady Ramonda doesn't get computers. Shuri made her AI so of course it won't turn into Ultron. Tony was also sure it wouldn't happen, but to be fair, he was dealing with the mind stone which was alien tech. Shuri's is Wakandan tech. I will have to research at the Marvel site, but I suspect like Asgardians that have skin bullets can't penetrate, the same holds for Talokan people. (Next time you watch Avengers notice when Loki shows up he doesn't duck the bullets. Later Thor does, probably because he doesn't realize bullets can't hurt him). I do wonder if there isn't a bit of the blubber protecting them from cold because Atuma is also more wrestler physique than Thor. Because when that helicopter takes off, there are no dead Talokans on the helipad. Is the only Talokan that dies the one shot by Nakia with Wakandan tech? Namor shows up at a lake. Most probably no Wakandan has ever explored its depths, not believing a threat would arise from the ocean. He wants Talokan to remain hidden like Wakanda was before T'Challa's reveal. He claims he wants to kill the scientist who made it, but all they need do is deliver the person to him. Riri didn't know her project was used by the CIA meaning like Real Genius the school project was diverted by the teacher to the military/CIA. When Shuri shows up, Riri thi KS she is getting g recruited by Wakanda so no, it's not that every American college kid knows Wakandan royalty. Shall I continue showing how stupid this guy's review was?
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Post by merh on Nov 21, 2022 22:06:14 GMT
Killmonger burned all the plant This was brought up in Wakanda Forever. Shuri has been trying to synthesis the plant, but kept failing until Namor gave her his mother's bracelet made from the plant that transformed his people. So even with T'Challa blipped 5 yrs, no one could become Black Panther. Mythology, dude. And if Shuri was blipped, there went 5 yrs trying to replace it. This explains why they don't have another Black Panther, not why they didn't have another king during the time when T'Challa disappeared in the blip. Ramonda presumably. Do we know if Shuri & M'Baku blipped?
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Post by Rey Kahuka on Nov 21, 2022 22:08:00 GMT
As was just posted, nobody could become the Black Panther. Problem solved. Not Black Panther but ruler of Wakanda. The Black Panther is not necessarily the ruler of Wakanda, merely its protector/champion. Queen Ramonda, just like she was still the queen in this movie after he died. I don't understand the problem here.
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Post by Skaathar on Nov 21, 2022 22:15:40 GMT
This explains why they don't have another Black Panther, not why they didn't have another king during the time when T'Challa disappeared in the blip. Ramonda presumably. Do we know if Shuri & M'Baku blipped? Not sure about Shuri but we do know M'Baku didn't blip.
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Post by thisguy4000 on Nov 21, 2022 22:18:49 GMT
Shuri did in fact blip. That was confirmed in the lead up to Endgame.
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havenless
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Post by havenless on Nov 21, 2022 23:35:48 GMT
Not Black Panther but ruler of Wakanda. The Black Panther is not necessarily the ruler of Wakanda, merely its protector/champion. Queen Ramonda, just like she was still the queen in this movie after he died. I don't understand the problem here. and specifically representing the ruling panther tribe of Wakanda. Now that the gorilla tribe rules for the first time ever, Black Panther presumably is no longer tied to the Wakandan government
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Post by merh on Nov 22, 2022 0:06:37 GMT
Oh, the dude's crap about smurfs.
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Post by merh on Nov 22, 2022 0:34:54 GMT
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Post by merh on Nov 22, 2022 0:36:30 GMT
Ramonda presumably. Do we know if Shuri & M'Baku blipped? Not sure about Shuri but we do know M'Baku didn't blip. So she lost both her kids. M'Baku probably didn't think it was a good time to try for the throne
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Post by Skaathar on Nov 22, 2022 1:18:04 GMT
Not Black Panther but ruler of Wakanda. The Black Panther is not necessarily the ruler of Wakanda, merely its protector/champion. Queen Ramonda, just like she was still the queen in this movie after he died. I don't understand the problem here. Because that's not how the Wakandans decide their ruler, at least as far as we can tell from the previous movie. Apparently the ruler of Wakanda is decided by trial of combat, and I'm having trouble believing that Queen Ramonda won the throne via trial of combat. I can understand that Ramonda became de-facto queen after her son died for a temporary duration while their people recovered, but to have stayed queen for the entire 5 years? Bit of a stretch that is.
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Post by merh on Nov 22, 2022 1:27:23 GMT
Queen Ramonda, just like she was still the queen in this movie after he died. I don't understand the problem here. Because that's not how the Wakandans decide their ruler, at least as far as we can tell from the previous movie. Apparently the ruler of Wakanda is decided by trial of combat, and I'm having trouble believing that Queen Ramonda won the throne via trial of combat. I can understand that Ramonda became de-facto queen after her son died for a temporary duration while their people recovered, but to have stayed queen for the entire 5 years? Bit of a stretch that is. Wakanda was aware of the efforts of the Avengers to correct the blip so they may have been willing to wait.
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Post by Rey Kahuka on Nov 22, 2022 2:40:54 GMT
Queen Ramonda, just like she was still the queen in this movie after he died. I don't understand the problem here. Because that's not how the Wakandans decide their ruler, at least as far as we can tell from the previous movie. Apparently the ruler of Wakanda is decided by trial of combat, and I'm having trouble believing that Queen Ramonda won the throne via trial of combat. I can understand that Ramonda became de-facto queen after her son died for a temporary duration while their people recovered, but to have stayed queen for the entire 5 years? Bit of a stretch that is. We don't know how many people Wakanda lost, considering their country was ground zero for the battle with Thanos, even before the snap. So maybe they decided stability was more important than ancient tradition in the short term. As I said off the top, it isn't important to the story, which is why they didn't bother with it. This entire argument has been stirred up by people who want to find any reason to drag the movie down. Wakanda Forever is already pushing three hours, how long do you think it should spend filling us in on the battle for succession that happened while T'Challa was snapped? Should Endgame have devoted 20 minutes showing him come back to Wakanda and battle to regain the title? Should they have made a streaming show focusing on Wakandan politics? Or were they correct in assuming general audiences wouldn't give a shit, and they should focus on the main characters of the story in the next film? It's a stupid fucking question posed in a hate video and posted in this thread by a guy who bitches about MCU movies 24/7, exercise some common sense here. Hours worth of onscreen explanations are not necessary to get this story where it needs to be. For whatever reason, T'Challa's family remained in power during the blip, and it isn't important to the MCU narrative to explain why (when the answer is obviously because the story is centered on them).
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Post by Marv on Nov 22, 2022 15:37:17 GMT
Huh. That's a very good point. I got it from this guy. He’s not bad. Ugh...Its got to be in the youtube agreement that people who criticize films have to sound so pretentious. It's every single one. The level of snarky passive agressiveness is astounding.
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Post by Skaathar on Nov 22, 2022 15:58:55 GMT
Because that's not how the Wakandans decide their ruler, at least as far as we can tell from the previous movie. Apparently the ruler of Wakanda is decided by trial of combat, and I'm having trouble believing that Queen Ramonda won the throne via trial of combat. I can understand that Ramonda became de-facto queen after her son died for a temporary duration while their people recovered, but to have stayed queen for the entire 5 years? Bit of a stretch that is. We don't know how many people Wakanda lost, considering their country was ground zero for the battle with Thanos, even before the snap. So maybe they decided stability was more important than ancient tradition in the short term. As I said off the top, it isn't important to the story, which is why they didn't bother with it. This entire argument has been stirred up by people who want to find any reason to drag the movie down. Wakanda Forever is already pushing three hours, how long do you think it should spend filling us in on the battle for succession that happened while T'Challa was snapped? Should Endgame have devoted 20 minutes showing him come back to Wakanda and battle to regain the title? Should they have made a streaming show focusing on Wakandan politics? Or were they correct in assuming general audiences wouldn't give a shit, and they should focus on the main characters of the story in the next film? It's a stupid fucking question posed in a hate video and posted in this thread by a guy who bitches about MCU movies 24/7, exercise some common sense here. Hours worth of onscreen explanations are not necessary to get this story where it needs to be. For whatever reason, T'Challa's family remained in power during the blip, and it isn't important to the MCU narrative to explain why (when the answer is obviously because the story is centered on them). Let me be clear here: this is not a big deal for me, I'm not going to whine and complain about it and claim that it breaks the movie. All I'm saying is that it's a valid point. Ramonda being queen since the blip raises an eyebrow because it's not quite consistent with what we know of Wakandans. For it to work we will need to make a whole host of assumptions like what you're doing. Will I lose sleep over it? No, but that doesn't mean I won't recognize a valid criticism when I see one.
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Post by Rey Kahuka on Nov 22, 2022 16:30:25 GMT
We don't know how many people Wakanda lost, considering their country was ground zero for the battle with Thanos, even before the snap. So maybe they decided stability was more important than ancient tradition in the short term. As I said off the top, it isn't important to the story, which is why they didn't bother with it. This entire argument has been stirred up by people who want to find any reason to drag the movie down. Wakanda Forever is already pushing three hours, how long do you think it should spend filling us in on the battle for succession that happened while T'Challa was snapped? Should Endgame have devoted 20 minutes showing him come back to Wakanda and battle to regain the title? Should they have made a streaming show focusing on Wakandan politics? Or were they correct in assuming general audiences wouldn't give a shit, and they should focus on the main characters of the story in the next film? It's a stupid fucking question posed in a hate video and posted in this thread by a guy who bitches about MCU movies 24/7, exercise some common sense here. Hours worth of onscreen explanations are not necessary to get this story where it needs to be. For whatever reason, T'Challa's family remained in power during the blip, and it isn't important to the MCU narrative to explain why (when the answer is obviously because the story is centered on them). Let me be clear here: this is not a big deal for me, I'm not going to whine and complain about it and claim that it breaks the movie. All I'm saying is that it's a valid point. Ramonda being queen since the blip raises an eyebrow because it's not quite consistent with what we know of Wakandans. For it to work we will need to make a whole host of assumptions like what you're doing.Will I lose sleep over it? No, but that doesn't mean I won't recognize a valid criticism when I see one. How did Thanos acquire all of his armies? Surely they served a different master before him, or did he create them? We don't know, and they don't tell us, because it isn't important to the story. You can put as much thought as you want into offscreen backstory, the fact that it doesn't appear on screen because it doesn't serve the story at all does not make it a plot hole. It isn't valid criticism. Valid criticism would be saying the movie runs too long and is slow in the middle. Valid criticism would be asking why the hell the Wakandans, setting a trap or not, would ever think taking on the undersea supermen in the middle of the ocean was a good idea. You could even make the argument that a movie titled 'Wakanda Forever' could've specifically been about the political upheaval that happened during and after the blip; I actually think it would be an interesting story. But it isn't required reading for the MCU narrative. Thinking it would be intriguing, perhaps more intriguing than what we got-- that's up to the viewer-- is wholly separate from pretending it's a plot hole because it isn't explained. The only MCU property that I can think of that delved into geopolitics of the blip was F&TWS, I don't know why Wakanda Forever is supposed to fill in the blanks when no other movie did. (And again, the simple answer is that it's background detail that isn't particularly engaging for general audiences.) I also don't know how US elections functioned during or after the blip, or which politicians disappeared, etc. I can head canon it all I want to, but I'm not expecting a streaming series or even five minutes in an upcoming film devoted to explaining it all because someone on the internet decided it's a plot hole. It isn't. It's backstory that isn't important to the narrative going forward.
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Post by Hauntedknight87 on Nov 22, 2022 16:38:57 GMT
Not yet. Was thinking about either going Thursday or Friday to the theaters. Not going to lie though, I kinda wish it was on Disney+. Would have made things easier for me. Honestly i may just end up waiting for the Disney+ release. Flu season is kicking my ass and the upcoming holidays will make it harder to find time to go the theaters. Besides i already read all the spoilers, so i know what goes down anyway.
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Post by Skaathar on Nov 22, 2022 18:51:48 GMT
Let me be clear here: this is not a big deal for me, I'm not going to whine and complain about it and claim that it breaks the movie. All I'm saying is that it's a valid point. Ramonda being queen since the blip raises an eyebrow because it's not quite consistent with what we know of Wakandans. For it to work we will need to make a whole host of assumptions like what you're doing.Will I lose sleep over it? No, but that doesn't mean I won't recognize a valid criticism when I see one. How did Thanos acquire all of his armies? Surely they served a different master before him, or did he create them? We don't know, and they don't tell us, because it isn't important to the story. You can put as much thought as you want into offscreen backstory, the fact that it doesn't appear on screen because it doesn't serve the story at all does not make it a plot hole. It isn't valid criticism. Valid criticism would be saying the movie runs too long and is slow in the middle. Valid criticism would be asking why the hell the Wakandans, setting a trap or not, would ever think taking on the undersea supermen in the middle of the ocean was a good idea. You could even make the argument that a movie titled 'Wakanda Forever' could've specifically been about the political upheaval that happened during and after the blip; I actually think it would be an interesting story. But it isn't required reading for the MCU narrative. Thinking it would be intriguing, perhaps more intriguing than what we got-- that's up to the viewer-- is wholly separate from pretending it's a plot hole because it isn't explained. The only MCU property that I can think of that delved into geopolitics of the blip was F&TWS, I don't know why Wakanda Forever is supposed to fill in the blanks when no other movie did. (And again, the simple answer is that it's background detail that isn't particularly engaging for general audiences.) I also don't know how US elections functioned during or after the blip, or which politicians disappeared, etc. I can head canon it all I want to, but I'm not expecting a streaming series or even five minutes in an upcoming film devoted to explaining it all because someone on the internet decided it's a plot hole. It isn't. It's backstory that isn't important to the narrative going forward. Thanos is established to have been a powerful warlord who's been on a warpath for quite some time. So it's logical to assume he has an army. No leaps in logic there. In comparison, Romanda was never established to be a powerful warrior nor was it established how she ended up becoming queen. So questioning how she ended up becoming queen when it was established that you become ruler of Wakanda via trial of combat... that's a legitimate question to ask. Yes, the movie might not have had enough time to explain it. Yes, I understand Coogler was jerry-rigging stuff after Boseman died. That doesn't mean the criticism is invalid. Did it stop me from enjoying the movie? Hell no. But am I going to be honest enough to admit it's an inconsistency? Definitely. If you disagree with me then I won't force you, but this will just need to be one of those things we'll need to agree to disagree on.
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