djorno
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Post by djorno on Jan 14, 2023 9:35:47 GMT
Jesus does claim to be God in a number of places in the gospels. No, he doesn't. From a biblical position, the best argument that Jesus is God is to cherry pick the "I and my father are one" line out of context. Otherwise, to maintain such a conviction, one would have to explain away everything else, like when he said, "no one knows the day or hour when these things will happen, not even the angels in heaven or the Son himself. Only the Father knows." And besides, the idea that Jesus is God undermines John 3:16, the most quoted Bible verse ever. Jesus said He who has seen me has seen God. Actually it’s the other way around. It’s people who deny the divinity of Christ and the trinity who are usually the ones that cherry-pick. Regarding the Jesus not knowing the time of the hour there are a few possible explanations. One is that He was speaking from his human nature. Philippians 2 says although Jesus existed in the form of God, he emptied himself, meaning laid aside His divine privileges, and took the form of a servant. Heres the other one, which I happen to subscribe to.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2023 10:12:02 GMT
No, he doesn't. From a biblical position, the best argument that Jesus is God is to cherry pick the "I and my father are one" line out of context. Otherwise, to maintain such a conviction, one would have to explain away everything else, like when he said, "no one knows the day or hour when these things will happen, not even the angels in heaven or the Son himself. Only the Father knows." And besides, the idea that Jesus is God undermines John 3:16, the most quoted Bible verse ever. Jesus said He who has seen me has seen God. Actually it’s the other way around. It’s people who deny the divinity of Christ and the trinity who are usually the ones that cherry-pick. Regarding the Jesus not knowing the time of the hour there are a few possible explanations. One is that He was speaking from his human nature. Philippians 2 says although Jesus existed in the form of God, he emptied himself, meaning laid aside His divine privileges, and took the form of a servant. Heres the other one, which I happen to subscribe to. Why Didn't Jesus & the Holy Spirit Know the Hour?That's you explaining away everything else. Are we to believe that God sits at his own right hand? Or that he forsook himself on the cross just after asking himself to forgive those morons? If Jesus was God, surely he would have made that clear by saying something like "I am God." Perhaps this trinity business is more akin to "two becoming one" when they marry.
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Post by paulslaugh on Jan 14, 2023 10:23:30 GMT
No, he doesn't. From a biblical position, the best argument that Jesus is God is to cherry pick the "I and my father are one" line out of context. Otherwise, to maintain such a conviction, one would have to explain away everything else, like when he said, "no one knows the day or hour when these things will happen, not even the angels in heaven or the Son himself. Only the Father knows." And besides, the idea that Jesus is God undermines John 3:16, the most quoted Bible verse ever. Jesus said He who has seen me has seen God. Actually it’s the other way around. It’s people who deny the divinity of Christ and the trinity who are usually the ones that cherry-pick. Regarding the Jesus not knowing the time of the hour there are a few possible explanations. One is that He was speaking from his human nature. Philippians 2 says although Jesus existed in the form of God, he emptied himself, meaning laid aside His divine privileges, and took the form of a servant. Heres the other one, which I happen to subscribe to. So did others in the Old Testament, like Elijah and Moses. The “Jesus as God” developed over the 1st century with John’s Gospel around 90AD with his Logos exegesis. In 1st Philippians, Paul is expounding on the nature of Lord Jesus being united with his own body as an example for others to live as one body in Jesus, so the letter needs to be read in that context. Chapter 2 Therefore if you have any encouragement from being united with Christ, if any comfort from his love, if any common sharing in the Spirit, if any tenderness and compassion, 2 then make my joy complete by being like-minded, having the same love, being one in spirit and of one mind. 3 Do nothing out of selfish ambition or vain conceit. Rather, in humility value others above yourselves, 4 not looking to your own interests but each of you to the interests of the others. 5 In your relationships with one another, have the same mindset as Christ Jesus: 6 Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage; 7 rather, he made himself nothing by taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness. 8 And being found in appearance as a man, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to death— even death on a cross! Paul is such a writer. Who, being in very nature God, In the NIV translation, this can also interpreted from the original Koine Greek as in the form as. Paul understood Jesus to be fully formed in righteousness before his death or else would not have risen. It’s the second part sentence that clarifies he’s not God and “did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage.” In other words, Jesus didn’t take his Yahweh-like righteousness achievement lightly. Paul sees Jesus as the Son of Man, not God himself.
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Post by Isapop on Jan 14, 2023 13:27:18 GMT
Jesus does claim to be God in a number of places in the gospels. No, he doesn't. From a biblical position, the best argument that Jesus is God is to cherry pick the "I and my father are one" line out of context. Otherwise, to maintain such a conviction, one would have to explain away everything else, like when he said, "no one knows the day or hour when these things will happen, not even the angels in heaven or the Son himself. Only the Father knows." And besides, the idea that Jesus is God undermines John 3:16, the most quoted Bible verse ever. What do you make of John 1:1, which says "The Word was God", given that Bible scholars seem to be universal in agreeing that "The Word" is referring to Jesus?
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Post by paulslaugh on Jan 14, 2023 19:47:33 GMT
No, he doesn't. From a biblical position, the best argument that Jesus is God is to cherry pick the "I and my father are one" line out of context. Otherwise, to maintain such a conviction, one would have to explain away everything else, like when he said, "no one knows the day or hour when these things will happen, not even the angels in heaven or the Son himself. Only the Father knows." And besides, the idea that Jesus is God undermines John 3:16, the most quoted Bible verse ever. What do you make of John 1:1, which says "The Word was God", given that Bible scholars seem to be universal in agreeing that "The Word" is referring to Jesus? This is where Jews and Christians part company. A Logos is a Greek philosophical notion antithetical to mainstream 1st century Judaism, but is vital to the development of the Trinity, a triune God rather than just God.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2023 19:49:15 GMT
What do you make of John 1:1, which says "The Word was God", given that Bible scholars seem to be universal in agreeing that "The Word" is referring to Jesus? This is where Jews and Christians part company. A Logos is a Greek philosophical notion antithetical to mainstream 1st century Judaism, but is vital to the development of the Trinity, a triune God rather than just God. The Jews rejected and killed our Lord 😮💨 The King of Kings, the Prince of Peace... and they murdered him.
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Post by paulslaugh on Jan 14, 2023 20:01:36 GMT
This is where Jews and Christians part company. A Logos is a Greek philosophical notion antithetical to mainstream 1st century Judaism, but is vital to the development of the Trinity, a triune God rather than just God. The Jews rejected and killed our Lord 😮💨 The vast majority of Jews never heard of him. Rome killed Jesus, if the story is entirely true, for claiming, they said, to be the King of the Jews. Judea had a lot of king-messiah pretenders in the zealot rebels. The Romans were there to grow food for the Empire, so their only beef with Jesus was a law and order one. The Sanhedrin also wanted peace with Rome because they knew they could be banned from tbeir Temple and their limited autonomy ended…which indeed happened over the next one hundred years or so. They turned more people than Jesus over to the Romans for execution.
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Post by Sarge on Jan 15, 2023 5:55:20 GMT
The Jews rejected and killed our Lord 😮💨 The vast majority of Jews never heard of him. Rome killed Jesus, if the story is entirely true, for claiming, they said, to be the King of the Jews. Judea had a lot of king-messiah pretenders in the zealot rebels. The Romans were there to grow food for the Empire, so their only beef with Jesus was a law and order one. The Sanhedrin also wanted peace with Rome because they knew they could be banned from tbeir Temple and their limited autonomy ended…which indeed happened over the next one hundred years or so. They turned more people than Jesus over to the Romans for execution. Jews still reject him which by my reasoning means they are still under the old covenant? One of the great failings of Jesus is that he said Simon Peter would be the rock of his church and instead it was Paul. Of course, he also failed at being the Messiah.
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Post by paulslaugh on Jan 15, 2023 6:01:45 GMT
The vast majority of Jews never heard of him. Rome killed Jesus, if the story is entirely true, for claiming, they said, to be the King of the Jews. Judea had a lot of king-messiah pretenders in the zealot rebels. The Romans were there to grow food for the Empire, so their only beef with Jesus was a law and order one. The Sanhedrin also wanted peace with Rome because they knew they could be banned from tbeir Temple and their limited autonomy ended…which indeed happened over the next one hundred years or so. They turned more people than Jesus over to the Romans for execution. Jews still reject him which by my reasoning means they are still under the old covenant? One of the great failings of Jesus is that he said Simon Peter would be the rock of his church and instead it was Paul. Of course, he also failed at being the Messiah. I would say so, unless God goes back on his word.
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Post by Isapop on Jan 15, 2023 13:17:37 GMT
No, he doesn't. From a biblical position, the best argument that Jesus is God is to cherry pick the "I and my father are one" line out of context. Otherwise, to maintain such a conviction, one would have to explain away everything else, like when he said, "no one knows the day or hour when these things will happen, not even the angels in heaven or the Son himself. Only the Father knows." And besides, the idea that Jesus is God undermines John 3:16, the most quoted Bible verse ever. I will repeat my question because I am curious to know if you have any comment. What do you make of John 1:1, which says "The Word was God", given that Bible scholars seem to be universal in agreeing that "The Word" is referring to Jesus?
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